If any members here have a flexible well poly pipe, you must have this tool.

[Real1shepherd]

I guess necessity is the mother of invention. I used to be in the well/pump business. Your pitless adpater should not be more than three feet below ground level unless you live somewhere like CO. They're meant to screw on a section of pipe to start your pull. You can sure make a segment with a loop as pictured.

We never used poly pipe down in the wells because of the high failure rate. I did use Eagle schedule 80 rigid SCH 80 plastic pipe though...threaded. There's a chart that tells you what size, and how long the depth of your pump can set and pump size maximum(hp). There's a lot of torque from a submersable pump on start up, so there's a limit on how far down you can go with a particular pump hp and the Eagle pipe. 90% of the time, I used Eagle pipe and never had pipe failure. The advantage of course is that it keep steel pipe and rust out of the equation.

Also you're not talking about a lot of weight and the pumps can be pulled by hand with backing plates if a truck well pulling machine is not immediately available. Need two people though and one on a tall ladder because you've got a section of rigid pipe sticking up in the air.

Kevin

 

[Real1shepherd]

I like that tool.

I'm just thinking what I'd do if faced with the same problem.

My submerged water pump is only 42 ft. down and I pull it by hand and it's a slippery load.

Does the wiring present any problems when pulling up poly?

Mine was attached to the poly. It's been 15 years since I've pulled it.

It especially important that the pump wire is taped back to the poly pipe at correct intervals with pump tape. I've pulled pumps out of the case over 15yrs set with that tape and never seen it fail. It's a particular tape used/sold in the pump business...not duct tape or plastic electric tape.

When you pull poly out of a well, be mindful it's not rubbing on the case anywhere. Any nick in the wiring that exposes the wire underwater will eventually take out your pump. What most people don't understand is that pressure tanks are sized so that your pump runs for at LEAST a minute before shutting off. All the heat is generated on startup and then they need water flowing around them to cool down. The minute plus allows for that....so size your pressure tank accordingly.

And another myth is that you can put a submersible pump for a home/homestead in a 10"-12" cased well and not have to worry about cooling. Wrong! You'll need a cooling sleeve connected around the pump because there's not enough directed flow in a big body of water like that. The pump can actually overheat. That's why most residential/homestead well cases are sized 6"-8".....to generate a good flow around the pump as it draws. The well case itself become the cooling sleeve.

Submersible pumps can run continuously for almost forever....it's the continual cycling that kills them. I put a large pump in once and had it fill a lake, wide open....after that it served a big homestead.....no sweat on filling the lake.

And then there's the whole technology of 'demand' pump systems....they spool up for the amount of flow needed only, using pressure transducers and advanced electronics. Lots of advantages there...smaller pressure tanks, longer pump life, but expensive hardware. Grundfos has/had a line of computer pumps since the 90's. I installed their first generation. Now many installers use conventional pumps that work though a very expensive 'demand' controller....that has a fan and needs air space around it in whatever location the electronics are installed.....pump house, basement etc.

Kevin

 

[jkim13]

It especially important that the pump wire is taped back to the poly pipe at correct intervals with pump tape. I've pulled pumps out of the case over 15yrs set with that tape and never seen it fail. It's a particular tape used/sold in the pump business...not duct tape or plastic electric tape.

When you pull poly out of a well, be mindful it's not rubbing on the case anywhere. Any nick in the wiring that exposes the wire underwater will eventually take out your pump. What most people don't understand is that pressure tanks are sized so that your pump runs for at LEAST a minute before shutting off. All the heat is generated on startup and then they need water flowing around them to cool down. The minute plus allows for that....so size your pressure tank accordingly.

And another myth is that you can put a submersible pump for a home/homestead in a 10"-12" cased well and not have to worry about cooling. Wrong! You'll need a cooling sleeve connected around the pump because there's not enough directed flow in a big body of water like that. The pump can actually overheat. That's why most residential/homestead well cases are sized 6"-8".....to generate a good flow around the pump as it draws. The well case itself become the cooling sleeve.

Submersible pumps can run continuously for almost forever....it's the continual cycling that kills them. I put a large pump in once and had it fill a lake, wide open....after that it served a big homestead.....no sweat on filling the lake.

And then there's the whole technology of 'demand' pump systems....they spool up for the amount of flow needed only, using pressure transducers and advanced electronics. Lots of advantages there...smaller pressure tanks, longer pump life, but expensive hardware. Grundfos has/had a line of computer pumps since the 90's. I installed their first generation. Now many installers use conventional pumps that work though a very expensive 'demand' controller....that has a fan and needs air space around it in whatever location the electronics are installed.....pump house, basement etc.

Kevin

Thank you for your excellent comment .

I really don't have much knowledge about the pump but some systems like how to install pressure tanks, pressure switches, electrical matters and how the system works etc.
I have a 230ft deep well and 120ft drop poly pipe replaced from galvanized pipe in 2016 with a 2hp 20gal Sta-Rite pump installed in Jan, 2006 by local well contractor

The reason to replace the poly pipe is my well water has iron that cause of rust to galvanized pipe rapidly(I have replaced two times in 15 years)
Also, I installed two of 120 gal pressure tanks 10 years ago with a 40-60 psi setup and a filter tank next to the pressure tank by myself.

The reason I installed the filter tank was because when the drop pipe was a galvanized pipe which had produced so much rust debris from the pipe it caused plugging my mini irrigation system and bad water quality.
After replacing the poly pipe, there were no more debris problems and water quality improved a lot better than before.

The main water line runs about 350 ft from the well and 15 ft lower elevation.
Also, installed DEFINITE PURPOSE CONTACTO for main pump switch.
The well system never had any problem ever since being replaced by the poly pipe..

Recently, there was no water in the house. I thought the well pump failed because of age but it wasn't.
The cause was the main pvc water pipe was broken and repaired by myself easily.

But I was very concerned about suddenly no water in the house, so I bought a reconditioned well pump for temporary repair from a local guy who rebuilt the old pump and the reason to make this pump pulling tool in case the pump failed then I can install it by myself in emergency circumstances.

Finanly, I have a question for you as a professional.
I got some information about the Stop cycle valve. It sounds good to me for the constant pressure water with a small pressure tank and they said it saves pump life.
I have researched more details about it. Yes, it will work well for sudden circumstances but not all. Specifically in my needs.
What do you have in mind?
Thank you again
Jkk

 

[Real1shepherd]

Cycle stop valves are pretty ingenious, really. I believe a guy in TX invented them. Essentially, instead of letting your pump reach it's shut-off of pressure, it lets your pump keep running at a specified pressure until your water usage stops. It's designed to throttle back your pressure before it reaches the cut-off pressure set at your pressure switch. It works anywhere from 1gpm to 25 gpm usage. As I said earlier, it's the continuous cycling that eventually kills a pump. The longer the pump runs at any given interval, the better it is for the windings.

Magnetic contactors are used from 2hp on. They take the initial amp load to your pump before sending voltage to your pressure switch. Without it, you can burn the little points up in your pressure switch pretty rapidly.

With the cycle stop valve you don't have to change your pressure tank unless you need to because of size constraints and/or you pressure tank goes bad(bladder style). I.e., always cheaper to replace with a smaller tank. Pressure tanks have always carried a high price tag for what they are.....I've never understood that......think of armed men in black harts holding up a stagecoach and you're in the stagecoach.

Cycle stop valves are a cheap method to emulate true demand pump systems. On a brand new install, it's preferable to start with a true demand pump system, but as I said earlier they are expensive.

Rebuilding submersible pumps is easily down once out of a well. However, mostly it's about replacing the impeller stages as a unit. Nothing is done to the electric motor other than the windings tested. That's kind of a crap shoot...because the windings can test out tolerable, then start to fail months later. You can also test the windings themselves with the pump down in the well. You have charts, given the length of your wire, that tell you what ohm readings on each leg should be etc.

Multiple pressure tanks work well, but never install them inline with each other. Water should hit them both at the same time....not one then the next. If you do it that way, the tank that's hit first, the bladder will wear out faster. That's another way to save height space...having multiple tanks.

Your system would have been ideal for rigid Eagle SCH 80 pipe instead of the poly. Most poly pipe systems have a small nylon type rope that goes all the way down to the pump. That's there in case the poly lets go of your pump....I've seen that happen. Fishing a submersible pump out of the bottom of a well can be 'fun'. Your electric wire is not there to do that and will usually break. Depends on the depth/weight etc. The rope let's the home owner attach to a a tractor or whatever and slowly pull the poly out of the well. Like I said, I never installed poly pipe in a well......but had to remove pumps with it that failed.....so I'm familiar with the process.


Kevin

 

[jkim13]

Cycle stop valves are pretty ingenious, really. I believe a guy in TX invented them. Essentially, instead of letting your pump reach it's shut-off of pressure, it lets your pump keep running at a specified pressure until your water usage stops. It's designed to throttle back your pressure before it reaches the cut-off pressure set at your pressure switch. It works anywhere from 1gpm to 25 gpm usage. As I said earlier, it's the continuous cycling that eventually kills a pump. The longer the pump runs at any given interval, the better it is for the windings.

Magnetic contactors are used from 2hp on. They take the initial amp load to your pump before sending voltage to your pressure switch. Without it, you can burn the little points up in your pressure switch pretty rapidly.

With the cycle stop valve you don't have to change your pressure tank unless you need to because of size constraints and/or you pressure tank goes bad(bladder style). I.e., always cheaper to replace with a smaller tank. Pressure tanks have always carried a high price tag for what they are.....I've never understood that......think of armed men in black harts holding up a stagecoach and you're in the stagecoach.

Cycle stop valves are a cheap method to emulate true demand pump systems. On a brand new install, it's preferable to start with a true demand pump system, but as I said earlier they are expensive.

Rebuilding submersible pumps is easily down once out of a well. However, mostly it's about replacing the impeller stages as a unit. Nothing is done to the electric motor other than the windings tested. That's kind of a crap shoot...because the windings can test out tolerable, then start to fail months later. You can also test the windings themselves with the pump down in the well. You have charts, given the length of your wire, that tell you what ohm readings on each leg should be etc.

Multiple pressure tanks work well, but never install them inline with each other. Water should hit them both at the same time....not one then the next. If you do it that way, the tank that's hit first, the bladder will wear out faster. That's another way to save height space...having multiple tanks.

Your system would have been ideal for rigid Eagle SCH 80 pipe instead of the poly. Most poly pipe systems have a small nylon type rope that goes all the way down to the pump. That's there in case the poly lets go of your pump....I've seen that happen. Fishing a submersible pump out of the bottom of a well can be 'fun'. Your electric wire is not there to do that and will usually break. Depends on the depth/weight etc. The rope let's the home owner attach to a a tractor or whatever and slowly pull the poly out of the well. Like I said, I never installed poly pipe in a well......but had to remove pumps with it that failed.....so I'm familiar with the process.


Kevin

Here is a rough diagram of my well system.
As you see the pressure switch is supplying 2 wires 220V when the water pressure is lower than 40 PSI then the magnetic contactor coil energizes the actual switch to supply the 220v to the pump.
The reason I have installed it is because the original switch that the well contractor installed didn't last at all.
I haven't had any trouble with it ever since.
As you meant about the used pump motor, I tested the motor winding. It is satisfactory in the range.

Thank you again Kevin
Jkk


.

 

[TRTermite]

I know this video is not adequate on this site, but the tool is very important for people who have a flexible poly drop pipe and need to replace the pump in an emergency situation.
A Couple weeks ago, suddenly no water from the kitchen and bath faucet.
It could be a nightmare with no watering in the house and all the garden for a while.
First, I thought the well pump failed because the pump is 16 years old.
Fortunately, I found the cause was a broken main water pipe from the well and it was repaired by myself right away
It would be really absurd if the cause of the well pump failed.
Then I had to wait several days for a well guy to replace the pump even calling an emergency.
I don't even want to think about that situation.
I was really concerned about it and ever since I was looking for some tool for pulling the well poly drop pipe that I could pull the pump and replace the pump by myself in an emergency situation,
This video will tell how it solved the problem.
If you have any better thoughts, please share them.
Thanks
Jkk

If it isn't adequate It is appreciated Thanks

 

[Real1shepherd]

Here is a rough diagram of my well system.
As you see the pressure switch is supplying 2 wires 220V when the water pressure is lower than 40 PSI then the magnetic contactor coil energizes the actual switch to supply the 220v to the pump.
The reason I have installed it is because the original switch that the well contractor installed didn't last at all.
I haven't had any trouble with it ever since.
As you meant about the used pump motor, I tested the motor winding. It is satisfactory in the range.

Thank you again Kevin
Jkk
View attachment 978300

.View attachment 978297 View attachment 978298 View attachment 978299

I usually encourage people to use magnetic contactors in 1 1/2hp pumps and larger. 1 1/2hp is borderline...some systems are OK without it.

Your pressure tanks are plumbed correctly. I use a 100psi relief valve.....a lot of well guys use 75psi. I find the 75psi relief valve will weep near 60psi pressures. They're not really accurate. The 100psi relief valve are made better and stouter IMO.

Never run a ground hydrant off of the pump line coming into your control area. Always run them off of another line leaving your control area/pressure tanks. The only exception there being in true demand systems.

Kevin

 

[Real1shepherd]

There's this guy on YouTube that is adamantly against cycle stop valves. I don't think he's ever used one. He's the same guy I got into an argument about over pressure tanks. He has a well system, but no experience beyond that.....just up in his head. Truly and armchair expert. He might have a math or engineering background, but he's got no field experience. It might be that he just does charts and analysis for a living....I dunno, don't care.



Kevin

 

[jkim13]

There's this guy on YouTube that is adamantly against cycle stop valves. I don't think he's ever used one. He's the same guy I got into an argument about over pressure tanks. He has a well system, but no experience beyond that.....just up in his head. Truly and armchair expert. He might have a math or engineering background, but he's got no field experience. It might be that he just does charts and analysis for a living....I dunno, don't care.



Kevin

Yes, I have watched that video.
The CVS valve and system is controversial to me.

Let's say a common sense of the CVS system with 1-2 gallon pressure tank and conventional pressure tank system that I have.

I have two 120 gal pressure tanks and set up 40-60.

The actual holding water is 36 gallons total 72 gallons of water in tanks.

Typical household is flushing the water 10 times per day with 1.5 gallons of toilet

If this scenario is existing then the CVS system would be turned on and off 10 times or more but none of the conventional system.

That is the reason I am not still fully convinced,
What is your opinion on this?
By the way my existing well pump is 2hp 20gal Sta-Rite pump
Jkk

 

[Real1shepherd]

Yes, I have watched that video.
The CVS valve and system is controversial to me.

Let's say a common sense of the CVS system with 1-2 gallon pressure tank and conventional pressure tank system that I have.

I have two 120 gal pressure tanks and set up 40-60.

The actual holding water is 36 gallons total 72 gallons of water in tanks.

Typical household is flushing the water 10 times per day with 1.5 gallons of toilet

If this scenario is existing then the CVS system would be turned on and off 10 times or more but none of the conventional system.

That is the reason I am not still fully convinced,
What is your opinion on this?
Jkk

I think you have sound reasoning. You have two tanks and therefore the draw down gals reserve is doubled. If your pump hardly ever comes on and when it does, it runs from 1-2 minutes or more to cycle, you have a great system as far as pump wear is concerned. I don't think in your scenario, a CSV would improve anything , but quite the contrary. I think CSV's have a place in some usage situations, but I never put one in, not even one. I don't endorse them, but understand their purpose.

Multiple tanks and high amount of draw down gal reserve really can't be beat. Some people however, don't have the room or can afford the expense of two tanks....or one large tank.

Your goal(or anyone's to be exact), is to have at least a one minute cycle run on up to 3/4hp pumps and at least a two minute cycle run on 3/4hp pumps and larger. I think CSV's were probably born in the scenario where the pressure thank was sized too small or there were severe space limitations. As I said, I never put one in, or recommended one.....as I always defect to a bigger tank or multiple tanks to achieve longer cycle times....in conventional pump systems. Demand pump systems are different and have different parameters.

Kevin

 

[jkim13]

I think you have sound reasoning. You have two tanks and therefore the draw down gals reserve is doubled. If your pump hardly ever comes on and when it does, it runs from 1-2 minutes or more to cycle, you have a great system as far as pump wear is concerned. I don't think in your scenario, a CSV would improve anything , but quite the contrary. I think CSV's have a place in some usage situations, but I never put one in, not even one. I don't endorse them, but understand their purpose.

Multiple tanks and high amount of draw down gal reserve really can't be beat. Some people however, don't have the room or can afford the expense of two tanks....or one large tank.

Your goal(or anyone's to be exact), is to have at least a one minute cycle run on up to 3/4hp pumps and at least a two minute cycle run on 3/4hp pumps and larger. I think CSV's were probably born in the scenario where the pressure thank was sized too small or there were severe space limitations. As I said, I never put one in, or recommended one.....as I always defect to a bigger tank or multiple tanks to achieve longer cycle times....in conventional pump systems. Demand pump systems are different and have different parameters.

Kevin

Hi, Kevin
Would you please explain a little more detail about demand pump systems?
I am interested in it but never approached.
Thanks
Jkk

 

[Real1shepherd]

Hi, Kevin
Would you please explain a little more detail about demand pump systems?
I am interested in it but never approached.
Thanks
Jkk

I briefly touched on this in my first post I think it was. Grundfos pioneered computer submersible 'demand' pumps in this country. They had two models, the SQ and the SQE. The SQE was a full computer pump that 'talked' to it's solid state controller. The system relied on a pressure transducer and small pressure tank. The pressure transducer would sense any level of demand and spool up the pump appropriately from barely working to full output. Obviously, that has tremendous implications for not only pump life, but electricity saved. If you're wondering, there was no pressure switch. You set the max pressure you wanted the system to have and the computer controller did the rest. I usually set them @60PSI.....that mostly emulates city water pressure, although you could go higher if your well allowed.

As an installer/dealer, the real world installations were mixed. The pumps/controls were made in Denmark. The pumps were sent over here supposedly set up for our 220 and 115 volt mains. Something was lost in translation, because I had some of the pumps just die and I had to replace. Grundfos replaced the pumps for free, but I gave my labor away to set up and re-pull/install. With a remote aimed at the control box you could find out how many times the pump cycled within a specific time period, the temp of the pump during use, the output of the pump and you could even change the output of the pump with the remote(like if you wanted to scale down the max output because the well stats had changed...less water).

Pretty amazing in the late 90's. So in the early 2000's, due to dishonest well drillers that I was working with, I left the business and did something else. But the hand writing was on the wall.....the cry for demand pumps was heard. But the pump companies did not want to do the R&R Grundfos did....sooooo they figured out that they could accomplish a similar goal with a very expensive pump controller working with a conventional pump. The controller therefore spools up the pump depending on the water demand. I've seen these in place and working properly. The controller's solid state gets hot and so a built-in fan and air space is needed. I can't tell you anymore than that because I was never an installer of these.

Back to Grundfos.....weirdly I was doing the plumbing on two different rural homes(I was a plumber before a well pump installer) and in both scenarios, the pumps didn't need to be set very deeply. So we bought the Eagle SCH80 threaded pipe and I called my old pump supply contacts in Spokane. I had them sell me both new Grundfos SQE's and their control units. I asked about the failure problems of yore. They said the electric motor parts were made here in the States now. I had some backing plates made and we set the pumps off pitless adapters I installed in the well cases. Everything is still going today....that was over 15yrs ago.

I'm pretty high on the Grundfos SQE's, but they are limited in size and won't do really deep well applications with high output....unless they have bigger pumps now.....don't remember. I've not personally installed any of the new solid state controller boxes as I mentioned above. The advantage there is that you just use a conventional submersible.

Well, you might say I'm behind the times because I left the business in the early 2000's.....but I still see new submersible, traditional pumps being put in all the time with sized pressure tanks. So computer pumps haven't taken the world by storm and either have the expensive solid state controller demand systems.

Kind of the KISS principle here;do you want the the very latest in demand pump systems or do you want traditional longevity?

Back to the Grundfos SQ......which is a computer run pump also, but does not have the same controller that the SQE does. I would put those in a well that had to cycle more often than normal.....usually a low volume well, and pumped water into a buried concrete system for reservoir storage. Once the concrete vault was filled, I had electronic sensors in the vault that cued the well SQ pump to turn on and shut off as needed to keep the vault filled. Because of the low volume well, those SQ's ran for very long periods of time. I never had an SQ fail, just the SQE's. Inside the vault, I usually had a SQE horizontally placed on a pitless adapter on the bottom to deliver pressure to the homestead through the regular computer controller. With that vault as their water reservoir, they could irrigate and do anything they wanted at full pressure and have a truly demand system as well. Pretty slick. Had to use a cooling sleeve though around the SQE.

Kevin

 

[jkim13]

I briefly touched on this in my first post I think it was. Grundfos pioneered computer submersible 'demand' pumps in this country. They had two models, the SQ and the SQE. The SQE was a full computer pump that 'talked' to it's solid state controller. The system relied on a pressure transducer and small pressure tank. The pressure transducer would sense any level of demand and spool up the pump appropriately from barely working to full output. Obviously, that has tremendous implications for not only pump life, but electricity saved. If you're wondering, there was no pressure switch. You set the max pressure you wanted the system to have and the computer controller did the rest. I usually set them @60PSI.....that mostly emulates city water pressure, although you could go higher if your well allowed.

As an installer/dealer, the real world installations were mixed. The pumps/controls were made in Denmark. The pumps were sent over here supposedly set up for our 220 and 115 volt mains. Something was lost in translation, because I had some of the pumps just die and I had to replace. Grundfos replaced the pumps for free, but I gave my labor away to set up and re-pull/install. With a remote aimed at the control box you could find out how many times the pump cycled within a specific time period, the temp of the pump during use, the output of the pump and you could even change the output of the pump with the remote(like if you wanted to scale down the max output because the well stats had changed...less water).

Pretty amazing in the late 90's. So in the early 2000's, due to dishonest well drillers that I was working with, I left the business and did something else. But the hand writing was on the wall.....the cry for demand pumps was heard. But the pump companies did not want to do the R&R Grundfos did....sooooo they figured out that they could accomplish a similar goal with a very expensive pump controller working with a conventional pump. The controller therefore spools up the pump depending on the water demand. I've seen these in place and working properly. The controller's solid state gets hot and so a built-in fan and air space is needed. I can't tell you anymore than that because I was never an installer of these.

Back to Grundfos.....weirdly I was doing the plumbing on two different rural homes(I was a plumber before a well pump installer) and in both scenarios, the pumps didn't need to be set very deeply. So we bought the Eagle SCH80 threaded pipe and I called my old pump supply contacts in Spokane. I had them sell me both new Grundfos SQE's and their control units. I asked about the failure problems of yore. They said the electric motor parts were made here in the States now. I had some backing plates made and we set the pumps off pitless adapters I installed in the well cases. Everything is still going today....that was over 15yrs ago.

I'm pretty high on the Grundfos SQE's, but they are limited in size and won't do really deep well applications with high output....unless they have bigger pumps now.....don't remember. I've not personally installed any of the new solid state controller boxes as I mentioned above. The advantage there is that you just use a conventional submersible.

Well, you might say I'm behind the times because I left the business in the early 2000's.....but I still see new submersible, traditional pumps being put in all the time with sized pressure tanks. So computer pumps haven't taken the world by storm and either have the expensive solid state controller demand systems.

Kind of the KISS principle here;do you want the the very latest in demand pump systems or do you want traditional longevity?

Back to the Grundfos SQ......which is a computer run pump also, but does not have the same controller that the SQE does. I would put those in a well that had to cycle more often than normal.....usually a low volume well, and pumped water into a buried concrete system for reservoir storage. Once the concrete vault was filled, I had electronic sensors in the vault that cued the well SQ pump to turn on and shut off as needed to keep the vault filled. Because of the low volume well, those SQ's ran for very long periods of time. I never had an SQ fail, just the SQE's. Inside the vault, I usually had a SQE horizontally placed on a pitless adapter on the bottom to deliver pressure to the homestead through the regular computer controller. With that vault as their water reservoir, they could irrigate and do anything they wanted at full pressure and have a truly demand system as well. Pretty slick. Had to use a cooling sleeve though around the SQE.

Kevin

Thank you for your comment. I really appreciated it.
Sounds like the demand pump system is more likely complicated than I thought.
I better stick to the conventional pump system that I have now.
Thanks.
Jkk

 

[rancher2]

Jkim13 Neat little tool you made. Not many pumps hung on poly in my area. If they are they usually use the blue that is PSI higher rated. The couple I pulled with poly I just used a car rim rubber strapped to the casting. Most pumps around here are hung on schedule 80 or 120 PVC thread twenty foot sections. The cycle stop valves do work just make sure you underground and pump pipe is rated PSI wise high enough to take the back pressure the cycle stop valve creates. Seems like in the early 2000's the well guys around hear were putting in the Grundfos demand systems but the ones I worked on the pressure transducers seemed to always cause issues. Everyone I knew of has been pulled and went back to a standard pump and a bigger pressure tank.

 

[Real1shepherd]

Jkim13 Neat little tool you made. Not many pumps hung on poly in my area. If they are they usually use the blue that is PSI higher rated. The couple I pulled with poly I just used a car rim rubber strapped to the casting. Most pumps around here are hung on schedule 80 or 120 PVC thread twenty foot sections. The cycle stop valves do work just make sure you underground and pump pipe is rated PSI wise high enough to take the back pressure the cycle stop valve creates. Seems like in the early 2000's the well guys around hear were putting in the Grundfos demand systems but the ones I worked on the pressure transducers seemed to always cause issues. Everyone I knew of has been pulled and went back to a standard pump and a bigger pressure tank.

That was the first gen Grundfos computer pumps. I have been assured those problems have been solved. But it was a bitter pill to swallow back then;to pull & replace for 'free'. No small thing to setup your truck and re-pull all that work If I had stayed in the biz, I could give you a better perspective today if that scenario has changed. I can imagine a lot of well guys felt burned and rightly so. Very occasionally I had pressure transducer failure....maybe one in 25-30. And I've been told those are better as well.

The Grundfos pumps I pulled went back to the company for examination. I BEGGED to find out what the failure was.....but my question seemed to go into a dark, deep hole(pun intended). Seems like the pumps that failed, failed within a yr or so. And I bet the ones that didn't are still going strong today.

Now, the demand controllers linked to conventional pumps have sold to MANY customers around here. How they are holding up, I dunno.

I even had Ridgid dies that had special teeth for the plastic Eagle pipe. Workd slick....had 11/4" and 1 1/2" sizes....the most popular. You'd think you could use steel pipe dies on plastic pipe. Nay, nay.....if the pipe even for part of a sec went out of round while using the dies, the teeth would dig in and gouge the pipe. You could drive in wood to try and keep it round while using the dies, but it was not a successful enterprise for someone on a clock. The teeth made for plastic pipe worked like a dream.

Kevin

 

[rancher2]

Kevin The well guy that I knew of that was installing the Grundfos computer pumps back in the time frame I was talking about had quit installing them and change back to a normal set up. I never did well work for a living but have pulled a lot of wells and replaced a lot of pumps and pressure tanks. Most of the time I found the Grundfos computer pumps on acreages around here they were the only people that bought into that system. Farmers like me are too cheap to buy those systems. I haven't been around any of the new variable drive well systems that are out there. Any new wells I have been around in the last ten or so years are just running normal pump, switch and tank set up. A lot of two wire pumps in my area with no control boxes.

 

[Real1shepherd]

I sold a lot of Grundfos demand systems to farmers and even to a firehouse once.....it's totally a geographical thing I suppose. It was supposed to be 'the wave of the future'. Certainly, the pumps supply house in Spokane thought so and hooked us up. But farmers talk to each other and so failure in a system means you couldn't give it away from word of mouth. It was too early yet in 'the wave' to know for sure. The fact that I replaced the bad ones for free probably had a lot to do with it. One customer did tell me that if I had to replace it a second time, he wanted a conventional pump system.

One of the selling points of the Grundfos computer pumps was "reliability".....something they hadn't yet achieved.

Eagle does make a threaded 'deep' drop pipe in SCH 120. I was never completely trusting of plastic threaded drop pipe and really deep sets. I just looked at their tables for pump weight & hp and they've changed considerably. I do remember using brass couplings for the deeper sets of Eagle pipe. Torque arrestors and centering devices a must.

Kevin

 

[rancher2]

Kevin In my area its tough to sell a farmer a system that's high price when the standard pump he has in the ground has been working 20-30 years. The city folks coming to the country they seem to have plenty of money and they bit on those type of systems with the buzz word constant pressure. Us old timers been running a 40-60 system so long we don't even notice the pressure drop. Well guys around here always used brass or stainless couplings on drop pipe. There is a fair amount of iron in the water around here so pulling the pumps some days is not fun. Most of the wells around here are 250 feet or less but less than a mile from my home place there is a 450 feet well that only produces 3 GPM. Forty years ago there were no houses in that area because of no water. City folks show up buy land built a house then drill a well and find out why there wasn't ever houses there before. I wouldn't ever build a house with out a good well first. I don't do much pump work any more as I am getting too old and no help and now days the only wholesale pump company within a 100 miles of me won't sell to me or any one that is not a licensed well installer. So its get pumps off the internet, box stores or farm stores. I don't like to put the cheap box store or farm store pumps in but on a Sunday and some ones out of water you do what you have to do.

 

[JRM]

I been a country bumkin my whole life. Grew up on a small 200 head dairy farm and I'm here to tell ya, if my pump crapped out tomorrow again (see beginning of this thread) and I knew of a reliable on demand pump that eliminated the annoying "40-60" pressure fluctuations I'd be a buyer. I never knew such a thing existed until now.

 

[Real1shepherd]

Kevin In my area its tough to sell a farmer a system that's high price when the standard pump he has in the ground has been working 20-30 years. The city folks coming to the country they seem to have plenty of money and they bit on those type of systems with the buzz word constant pressure. Us old timers been running a 40-60 system so long we don't even notice the pressure drop. Well guys around here always used brass or stainless couplings on drop pipe. There is a fair amount of iron in the water around here so pulling the pumps some days is not fun. Most of the wells around here are 250 feet or less but less than a mile from my home place there is a 450 feet well that only produces 3 GPM. Forty years ago there were no houses in that area because of no water. City folks show up buy land built a house then drill a well and find out why there wasn't ever houses there before. I wouldn't ever build a house with out a good well first. I don't do much pump work any more as I am getting too old and no help and now days the only wholesale pump company within a 100 miles of me won't sell to me or any one that is not a licensed well installer. So its get pumps off the internet, box stores or farm stores. I don't like to put the cheap box store or farm store pumps in but on a Sunday and some ones out of water you do what you have to do.

Yeah, I certainly hear all that, lived through it and empathize. @70, my pump days are over. When I was doing rural well work and putting in water systems I was in top shape. If it hadn't been for those thieving well drillers, I'd probably be just retiring from that business, or close to it.

I remember a job that those well driller sent me out to.....they wanted me to set the pump 130' and I couldn't get past 70'. No cell phones in those days and I was in the wilds of northern Idaho....or maybe it was WA.....did both sides, don't remember. So I hiked down to a farm house and asked them if I could use their phone. Called the crooked well drillers. Got chewed out for calling them because according to them, the farmer overhearing our conversation would likely talk about about the well problem for the next 20 yrs to other farmers, he said. Nothing like shifting the blame. His solution was to keep smashing the pump into the obstruction until I broke through. Yeah, like that was gonna work. They'd poured concrete into a void and didn't let it cure long enough before punching through again.

In the biz, we ran the gambit on existing well systems. Nobody seemed to have the sense previously to design a water system around a low volume well. Folks just lived with poor water volume and 15-35psi systems. I ran into a woman that had three Kohler silent flush one-piece toilets. They never worked right she said. Being a plumber, I knew Kohler spec-ed those toilets to have at least consistently 35psi to operate properly(they flush with a small reservoir of water, but use the water pressure coming in for most of the flush). They didn't want to bury a reservoir vault in the yard, so they opted to have me put a free standing tank in their garage.

As I described earlier, I pumped from the well into the reservoir and then pump in the reservoir to the house. 60psi and those old toilets flushed properly for their first times. The woman hugged me....awkward....not a hugger with strangers.

We have an iron bacteria here that makes it seem like sulfur hard water because it secretes iron staining as it reproduces/colonizes. Eventually, it colonizes inside the water heater. But it starts out in the well and slowly eats on the steel/iron casing. They found out the well drillers were spreading it from their equipment well-to-well. Some outfit in Spokane was offering a 'clean out' where they pulled the pump, sanitized everything on tarps(with essentially bleach), charged thousands and no guarantee that the iron microbes wouldn't be back.

Would be nice to be so conscienceless and take people's money like that. I couldn't do it. The microbes can't be caught in a regular whole house filter(too small). You want to kill them, you have to periodically flush out your WH with bleach(the well too) or put in an ultraviolet irradiation system to purify the water coming in.

Kevin