Danxtro
ArboristSite Lurker
For the Rock Elm pros. Is it really Rock Elm? Or American Elm with mutation:msp_smile:
Tx for the answers
Tx for the answers
Is it Rock Elm?
- Thread starter Danxtro
- Start date
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Might be... might not be... the bark is the most unreliable way to identify any tree.
gink595
Addicted to ArboristSite
Ya except when it is Shag bark Hickory, Pin Cherry, Black Cherry, Choke Cherry, Maple(s), cottonwood, white oak, red oak, red elm, hack berry, iron wood, mulberry, walnut, beech, sycamore, birch, cedar, basswood, poplar, Osage, Ash, locust...
gink595,
I wouldn’t have a problem identifying any of those by looking at the bark… if they were growing in my own woodlot. But drive across the country, across the state, or even across the county and things are likely to change dramatically. I remember there was thread a while back where someone from the PNW posted pictures of Pin Cherry… well over half the responses said it was birch (and birch doesn’t grow in the PNW!!). There is near 2 dozen species of oak growing in his country… and if I show you a picture of just bark you can say without any doubt it’s Red Oak? Or White Oak? Really? Just looking at the bark and you can tell me if it’s definitely Red Oak and not Pin Oak, Black Oak, Scarlet Oak, Spanish Oak, Bear Oak, Jack Oak, Live Oak, Turkey Oak, or Blackjack Oak? (just to name a few). Or if I show you a picture of some ash bark you’ll be able to tell me without any doubt if it’s White, Green, Black or Blue Ash? And you can Identify Red Elm from all the other elms by simply looking at a picture of the bark? Really? Ya’ wanna’ bet!?!? I can’t remember how many times someone has posted pictures of Cottonwood bark… and the ID responses have been all over the map.
Sure, from the OP’s picture I can tell it’s an elm… but the bark ain’t enough to identify which of the 15 or more elms growing in North America it is.
I wouldn’t have a problem identifying any of those by looking at the bark… if they were growing in my own woodlot. But drive across the country, across the state, or even across the county and things are likely to change dramatically. I remember there was thread a while back where someone from the PNW posted pictures of Pin Cherry… well over half the responses said it was birch (and birch doesn’t grow in the PNW!!). There is near 2 dozen species of oak growing in his country… and if I show you a picture of just bark you can say without any doubt it’s Red Oak? Or White Oak? Really? Just looking at the bark and you can tell me if it’s definitely Red Oak and not Pin Oak, Black Oak, Scarlet Oak, Spanish Oak, Bear Oak, Jack Oak, Live Oak, Turkey Oak, or Blackjack Oak? (just to name a few). Or if I show you a picture of some ash bark you’ll be able to tell me without any doubt if it’s White, Green, Black or Blue Ash? And you can Identify Red Elm from all the other elms by simply looking at a picture of the bark? Really? Ya’ wanna’ bet!?!? I can’t remember how many times someone has posted pictures of Cottonwood bark… and the ID responses have been all over the map.
Sure, from the OP’s picture I can tell it’s an elm… but the bark ain’t enough to identify which of the 15 or more elms growing in North America it is.
haveawoody
Addicted to ArboristSite
Picture #2 shows the diamond shapes and deep furrowed bark well.
From that pixture i would say it's rock elm.
Very old american elm can take on the same sort of look in bark and furrow but this tree doesn't look old enough for that.
Elm is one of those woods though that all the bark looks pretty similar so it's always hard to ID.
In S ontario it's usualy American or Rock and so few other elms it's a rarity to see something different.
If it's a live tree you can ID it 100% with the underleaf, if it has a hairy texture it's 100% ID.
Or you can find a dead branch on that tree and cut it down, even the dead dry wood is pretty hefty.
From that pixture i would say it's rock elm.
Very old american elm can take on the same sort of look in bark and furrow but this tree doesn't look old enough for that.
Elm is one of those woods though that all the bark looks pretty similar so it's always hard to ID.
In S ontario it's usualy American or Rock and so few other elms it's a rarity to see something different.
If it's a live tree you can ID it 100% with the underleaf, if it has a hairy texture it's 100% ID.
Or you can find a dead branch on that tree and cut it down, even the dead dry wood is pretty hefty.
gink595
Addicted to ArboristSite
Yes I can tell White oak from Red oak, and Red elm bark from American elm. I don't think the ash barks are that hard to tell apart either, as they all have a distinctive look from one another. Same with Cherry tree's they all are different from one another. You are correct about Oaks as there are many different types, I believe there is something like 22 different types just in the region of Indiana I live in. I would not be even close to comfortable trying to distinguish all the different bark types of a Oak. Looking at pictures over the internet or a small picture in a book isn't always as clear to be able to distinguish what the species of tree it is...we agree on that, however I don't think it is the worst way to try and narrow down what type of tree it is either as there are alot of details you can narrow down from the bark.
haveawoody
Addicted to ArboristSite
ShaneLogs,
That was my exact thought
The only picture that really looks like rock elm was #2, the others i sort of had a blank look on my face when i looked at them
The rest of the pictures i wouldnt have even guessed on.
That was my exact thought
The only picture that really looks like rock elm was #2, the others i sort of had a blank look on my face when i looked at them
The rest of the pictures i wouldnt have even guessed on.
haveawoody
Addicted to ArboristSite
gink595,
How about Ash, Box elder and Norway maple.
Pretty easy to mix them up from bark even up close and personal.
I agree looking at pictures is more like narrowing things down than making a 100% ID.
Seeing bark and a split log makes it easier, and then even splitting properties can help to nail a difficult ID.
How about Ash, Box elder and Norway maple.
Pretty easy to mix them up from bark even up close and personal.
I agree looking at pictures is more like narrowing things down than making a 100% ID.
Seeing bark and a split log makes it easier, and then even splitting properties can help to nail a difficult ID.
Danxtro
ArboristSite Lurker
Tx all for your answers! In southern Canada there's only three kind of native Elms (American,Red and Rock). On the range map, my living area is not in the native zone of Rock Elm but i know it could grow out of that range that why my questionning and be sure. Up to now i only saw three of them on the 110 acre wood lot. I want to preserve them from cutting. On the first picture there's American at the left and Rock? on right. But was not able to focus both together. Gonna take picture of the leave when possible.
Tanks again!
Tanks again!
ShaneLogs
Addicted to ArboristSite
ShaneLogs,
That was my exact thought
The only picture that really looks like rock elm was #2, the others i sort of had a blank look on my face when i looked at them
The rest of the pictures i wouldnt have even guessed on.
#1 looks like something I have seen up here before in the woods but I have no idea of the species of the wood.
haveawoody
Addicted to ArboristSite
Danxtro,
1 picture looks like rock elm and american elm.
The other rocke elm.
The big tree looks a bit like siberian elm with the edge of the bark lifting a bit like siberian.
<img src=http://www.arboristsite.com/attachments/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/236189d1335734506-siberian_elm_01_bark-jpg>
I bet the big tree is dead rock elm and thats why the ID is being trouble, the white blotches make me think it's rock elm on it's way to valhala.
It sure looks like the bark is peeling to me, the lower branches look typical for dutch elm damage.
The ash trees growing all around and over the big tree are a good bonus anyway.
1 picture looks like rock elm and american elm.
The other rocke elm.
The big tree looks a bit like siberian elm with the edge of the bark lifting a bit like siberian.
<img src=http://www.arboristsite.com/attachments/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/236189d1335734506-siberian_elm_01_bark-jpg>
I bet the big tree is dead rock elm and thats why the ID is being trouble, the white blotches make me think it's rock elm on it's way to valhala.
It sure looks like the bark is peeling to me, the lower branches look typical for dutch elm damage.
The ash trees growing all around and over the big tree are a good bonus anyway.
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Danxtro
ArboristSite Lurker
The bark is thick and is like cork. The french name of Rock Elm is ¨Orme Liège¨. If I translate word to word it means ¨Cork Elm¨ That is the reason why i believe it is Rock Elm. I have to wait for the leafs appearance and fruits to make sure.
Tx!
