Is It The Bar or The Chain?

[Canyon Angler]

Philbert - How are you cutting or breaking those files without farking up the temper? Are you just scoring them and then breaking them?

 

[Philbert]

Philbert - How are you cutting or breaking those files without farking up the temper? Are you just scoring them and then breaking them?

Dremel cut off tool (first photo - wheel is pretty worn there). Cut almost all the way through. Might 'fark up' the temper at the edges, not sure.



Philbert

 

[CR888]

Clever frugal ingenuity there Philbert. Also Chinese have copied the bar dressers & can be purchased off EBay for $6 delivered.

 

[Bwildered]

Between the beatup bar and the chain(s), I’m probably going to upgrade and start with a clean slate. I have a collection of a half a dozen chains from over the last 11 years; some 16 inch and some 18 inch. They are all probably pretty beat. I’ve cut about 50 cords of wood in that time.

My Husky seems to be well lubricated; I fill up the oil when I fill up the gas. I have the oiler set on the highest setting. It heats up when it gets bound up when cutting at that crazy angle.

I’m looking at those SugiHara bars but the 16 inch bars look like they are running a .325 pitch, .050 gauge and 66 drive links? I get lost on the compatibility charts. My 359’s current setup for a 16 inch bar is 60 drive links, .375 pitch, and .058 gauge. Also, I believe my 359 is a “small mount?” I will take the advice and have a new clutch sprocket installed prior to any upgrade. Is the clutch sprocket “gauge specific?” In other words, is there a .050 clutch sprocket and a .058 clutch sprocket?

I’ll try to attach a few photos of the sprocket but I don’t think I would bother buying a new sprocket given the condition of the bar.

I appreciate the help and I will dig in on the finer points. I’ve just always been one of those guys who sharpens the chain, fills ‘er up with gas and oil, and then I get cutting.


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Take some pictures looking down at the edges of the bar, if the one side of the rail is thicker than the other on either side of the groove then the bar is rat shite, the chains will more than likely be stuffed as well as they wear unevenly to the bar & will not cut straight even on a new bar & will wreck it as well.

 

[Philbert]

Chinese have copied the bar dressers & can be purchased off EBay for $6 delivered.

Bought one. Tried it. Looks like the Oregon / STIHL / (?) model, but the file was junk (that is actually the clone file in the photos).
One advantage of doing this is that you can choose different types, brands, cuts of files to experiment with, and see what works best for you.

Philbert

 

[holeycow]

Hmmm, looks like my ski-edge sharpener will do the same job. I’m gonna find that thing and check it out.

 

[Canyon Angler]

Dremel cut off tool (first photo - wheel is pretty worn there). Cut almost all the way through. Might 'fark up' the temper at the edges, not sure.

You can bet the cutoff wheel softens the steel in the file (by making it too hot). FWIW, I would just score both sides of the file with the cutoff wheel (all you should need is a very shallow groove on both sides) and then clamp the file in a vise at the score line and break it off with a hammer.

 

[chipper1]

Hmmm, looks like my ski-edge sharpener will do the same job. I’m gonna find that thing and check it out.

Some will, but the racing ones are typically less than 90 degrees, so be sure to check the angle.

 

[holeycow]

I think mine has slots for 88 and 90, if I’m not mistaken.

I have been using a mill bastard for a long time. It works fine, but if I get sloppy, I do a sloppy job. This ski sharpener might work better/more easily.

 

[Husky Joe]

Update! Many thanks for the constructive and helpful comments. This was a bit of an eye-opener and I took a good look at my two bars and numerous chains and I think they are all in the same boat. I was bucking up some big rounds last night with my 18 inch bar with a fresh grinder wheel sharpening, and it worked great for a few cuts and then it was dull again and heating up. I think I will retire my bench grinder and either hand file or use the Timberline sharpener, which I paid plenty for.

I could not find a high-end 16 inch bar in .058 gauge, so I ordered 16 inch and 18 inch Oregon Power Match bars. I’ve gotten pretty good mileage out of them in the past, especially compared to stock (and considering all the abuse!). I also ordered 2 new chains for each bar and I have a call in to my local stealership to replace the clutch/sprocket/bearing thingy. I don’t think there is any point in trying to salvage the bars and chains. They’ve done a lot of cutting but probably best to throw them in the garbage can where they belong. I’m looking forward to getting it all together and really ripping again.

Thanks again!

 

[HarleyT]

You can't just put a sharp edge on these farked up cutters, but must remove all of the damage to get a good sharpen.

 

[chipper1]

Update! Many thanks for the constructive and helpful comments. This was a bit of an eye-opener and I took a good look at my two bars and numerous chains and I think they are all in the same boat. I was bucking up some big rounds last night with my 18 inch bar with a fresh grinder wheel sharpening, and it worked great for a few cuts and then it was dull again and heating up. I think I will retire my bench grinder and either hand file or use the Timberline sharpener, which I paid plenty for.

I could not find a high-end 16 inch bar in .058 gauge, so I ordered 16 inch and 18 inch Oregon Power Match bars. I’ve gotten pretty good mileage out of them in the past, especially compared to stock (and considering all the abuse!). I also ordered 2 new chains for each bar and I have a call in to my local stealership to replace the clutch/sprocket/bearing thingy. I don’t think there is any point in trying to salvage the bars and chains. They’ve done a lot of cutting but probably best to throw them in the garbage can where they belong. I’m looking forward to getting it all together and really ripping again.

Thanks again!

Sounds like a good start.
Now find another local member and figure out how to sharpen/maintain the bar.
Most likely that same member could help change the sprocket as well as get the bar/chains back in great working order.
Like Harley said those chains can be made to cut well again, but it will require filing them back past any damage. Also if you are burning the teeth with the grinder then they won't hold an edge long even if you are getting past the previous damage.
The timberline should be able to get them all straightened out for you, and don't forget to take the depth gauges down as well.

 

[Philbert]

Hmmm, looks like my ski-edge sharpener will do the same job.

Actually, I believe that the design was adapted from a ski edge sharpener. Keep an eye out at ski swaps!

You can bet the cutoff wheel softens the steel in the file (by making it too hot). FWIW, I would just score both sides of the file with the cutoff wheel (all you should need is a very shallow groove on both sides) and then clamp the file in a vise at the score line and break it off with a hammer.

The file has a lot of mass - it would take a lot of heat to actually soften it. That said, you can take lots of small cuts and allow it to cool in between, or wrap the file in a damp rag to absorb the heat.
If you score and break the file (assuming that you got a clean line and did not damage the cutting edges in the vise or with the hammer), you will still have to grind the ends clean, flat, and square to fit into the sharpener (try it with a 'dead' file). Or you can just buy the OEM replacement files at $8 - $15 each (sold in multiples of 6).

I think I will retire my bench grinder and either hand file or use the Timberline sharpener, which I paid plenty for.

There is a difference between 'sharpening' and 'maintaining a sharp edge'. Reforming cutters, repairing damage, and reestablishing angles falls into the first category. Many comments about the Timberline (and my personal opinion) indicate that it is better at maintaining a sharp edge at specific angles:
https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/new-chain-sharpener.180488/

I don’t think there is any point in trying to salvage the bars and chains . . . probably best to throw them in the garbage can where they belong.

Cover postage and I will take a whack at the chains, just for a challenge.
https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/philberts-chain-salvage-challenge.245369/

Now find another local member and figure out how to sharpen/maintain the bar.

Like with the chains, it is easier to maintain the bar. I check for burrs and wire edges each time I remove / swap a chain and clean them up with a file or the Oregon tool (above).

Philbert

 

[CR888]

Chainsaw bars, chains & sprockets with use are always at various stages of their service life. I bet near all of us are running something that could be better or is too far gone. I love putting a new clutch drum, bar, chain & sprocket on a saw. Everything is tight, efficient and nice to use.

 

[Canyon Angler]

The file has a lot of mass - it would take a lot of heat to actually soften it. That said, you can take lots of small cuts and allow it to cool in between, or wrap the file in a damp rag to absorb the heat.

All you care about is the cutting edges, and it doesn't take much heat to get them above the 400° or so it takes to soften them. (Steel starts to glow around 1200°F)

If you score and break the file (assuming that you got a clean line and did not damage the cutting edges in the vise or with the hammer)

You clamp the waste and hit the waste. Then flip the file, cushion it with a piece of wood if you like, and hit the top corner. Done. Then 5 sec with a grinder to deburr edges.
Plus, you won't burn up as much of your cutting wheel.

The bottom line is that cutting a file with an abrasive wheel, like trying to weld a magnet or a spring – or a file – is a bad idea because of the heat.

 

[Philbert]

Went back and watched this vieo on my desktop instead of my smart phone. Couple of comments:

- The file only cuts in one direction: if switching to the other side of the bar, he needs to pull the file, instead of pushing, or remove the file and flip it around.

- Try to file away from the nose sprocket, to keep metal filings out of the bearings (another reason to flip the file around when squaring all 4 corners);

- A lot easier if the guide bar is just resting on the edge of a bench, or held in a vise, so that you have access to the entire length of the bar, for a smooth, even edge.

Philbert

 

[homemade]

That was merely a 10 second search for a bar rail dresser on YouTube. It was not intended to be an instructional video pointing out all tips and techniques, instead it is a description of what I was referring to.

 

[HarleyT]

Cover postage and I will take a whack at the chains, just for a challenge.
https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/philberts-chain-salvage-challenge.245369/

Just don't make the package look too suspicious!!!!

 

[Husky Joe]

WOW. I got my new bars and chains a couple weeks ago but I’ve been busy trying to fill the freezer. On Sunday I got out and tackled a huge ash I’ve been putting off. The bars are actually Oregon Pro-Lite. For whatever reason, the 18 inch Pro-Lite bar came up a little short, compared to the original Husky bar and the Oregon Power Match bars I’ve been running in the past. Those bars ran chains with 68 drive links and the Pro-Lite 18 inch bar runs 64. I ordered a 16 inch bar and 18 inch bar from Saw Again, and the guy called to make sure I wanted 68 drive links (which is what I ordered based upon past experience with the 18 inch bars). He said the 18 inch Pro-Lite bar specified 64 drive links, so I told him two send me to chains with 64. The Pro-Lite 16 inch bar took 60 DL, just like past bars I ran on it. Had I known, I could’ve probably just gotten by with the 18 inch bar and had everything covered and I wouldn’t have needed a 16 inch, but it might be nice for cutting up some small stuff. I’ll attach photos of the old beat up 18 inch Power Match bar, compared to the new “18 inch” bar. I thought 18 inches was 18 inches! It’s the story of my life; always coming up short. Sigh…

Anyway, I guess I forgot how good a saw is supposed to cut. With the new bar and chain, I really ripped through that ash in record time. I didn’t measure it, but it’s probably 3 feet in diameter. Chips were really flying. I mean lots of chips! Then I blew out my back trying to push those monster rounds into the bucket of my Kubota. Grumble…

Good to be back in business. Now I will look into a bar rail dresser.

I'm getting errors uploading photos…

 

[newforest]

You probably already learned how cheap the sprockets are then.

There is probably a fair bit of life left in most of your old chains, though it might take a little extra time to get them right.

I'm not sure I see much advantage to switching from 16" to 18" and back semi-routinely. I run 16" routinely and only once in a great while put on a 20".

Last year my shop was basically giving away the Power Match bars - just buy something and get a free bar. I think maybe Oregon was ending that brand name? I took the hint, and didn't put one on any of my saws; daily saw use for months on end is way different than weekend warrior firewood action. I have blown one of those bars up in the past by forgetting to grease the tip. Now I do that several times a week.

I just dress the bar with the same flat file I use for depth gauges. I do it about once a week when I flip the bar over for even wear over the life of the bar. I'm sure the bar dresser gizmo would work a little better but it seems to work out all right. If done regularly, with regular bar flips, there isn't much to file and it doesn't take long. Blow it off for a long time and that is different.

At the same time I grease the needle bearing. I really hope the saw in this thread has been treated to that....