is it time for a new bar/sprocket?

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thook

thook

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an old newb question, i'm sure. but, here goes...

the bar's bent, the rails need work....i know that can be fixed. but, the sprocket's riveted in and it's teeth are sharp as a puppy's. it's the original 25yr old bar on a makita 520i.

new bar entirely? or just new sprocket? is a new sprocket even advisable given it's riveted? if entirely, what's a good recommended replacement for a 3/8's chain 18in length? it's the wide type of bar with a wider tip. sorry for my ignorance on proper terminology. just kind of in a hurry for advise since i'll be in town tomorrow and can perhaps get a replacement. as well, juggling firewood pick up with a host of chores before midnight rolls around, so can't spend a lot of time on web searching tonight

oh, and probably new drive sprocket, too, huh? it's the original. sorry, again...can't take pics. the phone'll do it, but i don't know how to interface it with my computer
 
Drill the rivet head and pound out the tail. New sprocket should come with the rivets. Personally I feel you got your money’s worth from the bar and would just buy new
 
it's a dolmar bar. i've no idea about sugihara or cannon in terms of worth....though i have seen the names thrown around in brief searches

i've got a new carlton chain i picked up last winter. i have one light touch up sharpening on it. so, that's good to go. but, okay...i'll look for a new bar.

and, so you guys are saying new drive sprocket, too? i think that's what it's called. the one on the crank spindle behind the clutch

thank you kindly for the quick replies. off to get a load of wood. riverdirt cheese!

ps. again, sorry...can't do pics. i know...they help...lol
 
Yes, without even seeing pictures or any more detail, I feel confident that you absolutely need a new drive sprocket. ESPECIALLY if you are going to mount a new chain (a badly damaged drive sprocket can screw up your new chain too). Your original post leads me to believe that everything you have listed is worn three sheets past when it should have been replaced. An 18" bar is actually pretty cheap and well worth the money. Just make sure your drive sprocket and chain are the same pitch (and of course the bar gauge must match the chain gauge).

If the saw is running good, replace the drive sprocket, bar and the chain - you will be amazed at how well it cuts again. Then learn NOW about how to maintain the chain and bar to keep things working. Learn how to recognize drive sprocket wear. Keep the chain properly sharpened and the bar dressed - if you ever have a problem with the saw cutting to one side, or just not cutting any more when half way through a log, you MUST find and fix that problem without further horsing the saw and doing more chain/bar damage.
 
i'm aware of pitch and gauge requirements, but thanks! and, yeah....i've been reading all about the points you make...which is why i'm now looking at replacements. and, because the saw is down and out needing a carb kit and clutch ass'y, it's the perfect time to do all this, of course. so, instead of kinda half ass'ing saw ownership/use as i've been doing.....now that i'm aware that's exactly what i've been doing....i've been doing a lot of reading the past week. it's the second winter in a row my saw has gone down on me having to borrow a saw and borrow/buy wood. not fun and not satisfying. grateful i have the back up, but there's no reason anymore to let this develop. time to get'er back up to snuff, eh
 
homemade said:
Obviously if you have a sugihara or cannon it would be worth salvaging.
Click to expand...

btw, mind some schooling on the sugi and/or cannon bars? what makes them worth it? i'd like some quality going into this refurb, but i'm not a pro or even hobbyist. just a homeowner heatin' his house. so, if something like those are overkill for me i'll set my sights elsewhere. i am lookin' at'em, though

edit: holy shorts....the prices! yeah, $30-$50 is more my range
 
thook said:
okay....this is an interesting point. i have run into this problem before....particularly when felling. is this symptomatic of a worn bar or what?
Click to expand...
There are thousand people here that know more than I do about this stuff, but here is what I have seen. Cutting to one side or in a curve is most often caused by poor chain condition, including dull cutters, and especially not all cutters being the same length. A worn bar can also contribute to this problem because the chain does not run true and straight. If you have another bar that you can run the same chain on, it is a good test to determine where the problem is. If the chain does the same thing with the new bar, it is obviously the chain, but if it cuts better on a new bar, then it is clear proof that the old bar is the main issue.

If the saw just seems to stop cutting when you are part way into a log - not dragging, but just not biting into the wood, that seems to be almost entirely a bar issue. In the early stages as this problem develops, you can often get the cut going again by trying to cant the saw to one side or another in the kerf, but it will usually stop again fairly soon, especially if the cut is deep. I am not exactly sure of the specific details that is causing the bar to stop cutting - maybe it is the burs on the rail edges getting hung up on the wood, or maybe the bar groove is becoming notched and the chain just can't straighten out to reach new wood?

I don't know for sure, but whatever the exact cause is, I have always fixed it with a proper chain sharpening, cleaning out the bar grooves, and dressing the bar. Burs hanging up in the kerf seems the most logical explanation, but the last saw I had that started this had a bar that did not have any significant burs or obvious rail damage. It DID, however, have a lot of side-to-side slop with the chain, so the groove or chain drive links were obviously worn. That saw was a 40 year old Homelite that has had heavy use, and I had never done anything to maintain the bar. When I went to dress it, the bar was so hard that my files could not even touch it; I had to use the face of an angle grinder to dress the rails, and then peen the grooves back to .050 width. After I finished that work and put on a chain in good condition plus a new drive sprocket, the saw cut like new again. I think that because that particular bar is so hard, it never developed the more common and obvious signs of wear and allowed me to just ignore it for way too many years!

Of course, you should be turning the bar over each time you sharpen the chain so that you even out the wear on the top and bottom over time, but if you have not been doing that, then just flipping the bar over is almost as good a test as trying an entirely different bar with the same chain.

On the subject of drive sprockets - I monitor them for wear and change as needed, but frankly, I do know of any specific problems with the saw performance that can be caused primarily by a worn sprocket. I imagine that it is possible it might contribute to premature bar groove wear by causing the chain to take an unnatural lean to one side or the other, but I really do not know. I did recently change my Poulan over to a rim sprocket instead of the stock spur sprocket because that is supposed to minimize wear and keep the chain running true (AND because the rim sprocket replacements are a LOT cheaper than the spur sprockets!). Perhaps someone with more knowledge of sprocket issues will chime in?
 
thook said:
btw, mind some schooling on the sugi and/or cannon bars? what makes them worth it? i'd like some quality going into this refurb, but i'm not a pro or even hobbyist. just a homeowner heatin' his house. so, if something like those are overkill for me i'll set my sights elsewhere. i am lookin' at'em, though

edit: holy shorts....the prices! yeah, $30-$50 is more my range
Click to expand...

There out of my price range too for this firewood hack. But it’s like the difference between a ford torus and a Lincoln MKZ. They are both cars, one is just a little nicer.

Rails might be harder. Overall lighter construction. Higher quality bearing in the tip.... and so on.
 
under what circumstance should or shouldn't one move up in bar size? i've got an 18". however, i see a really nice/new carlton 20" for $30 on ebay free ship. could i have a couple links added to my current/mostly new chain?
 
thook said:
under what circumstance should or shouldn't one move up in bar size? i've got an 18". however, i see a really nice/new carlton 20" for $30 on ebay free ship. could i have a couple links added to my current/mostly new chain?
Click to expand...
Yes, you can have more links added to that chain for a cost. What size trees are you normally cutting? That would be determining factor in putting money into a longer bar and going from an 18" to 20" is not a big jump. In the end it is what you like to use and can afford.
 
As long as you stay within the guidelines for that saw (or at least similarly powered saws), I think you are pretty safe to run just about any length you want. With only one saw there always seems to an urge to run the longest bar we can get away with! But having multiple saws has freed me from the tyranny of the long blade. I have gone to SHORTER bars on my smaller saws.

When my only saw was the little 31 cc Homelite, I ran a 16" for years and did fine for all my woodcutting and property management needs. And then when I bought the Plastic Poulan 46 cc with a 20" bar, I thought I was in hog heaven. Once I got the 60 cc Echo with a 20", I started re-thinking what I really needed. I took the Plastic Poulan all the way down to a 16" to make it lighter and easier to handle, and now it gets the majority of use - I think a 16" will handle 80% or more of most non-commercial chores. That left me with a couple of .325 20" bars and chains just hanging on nails looking for love - not sure if I'll ever want to use them again.

And I love that little all-metal Homelite so much that I have begun to worry about eventually wearing it out and not being able to find parts, so I went back to the stock 14" bar, and I only use the saw for the smallest stuff when I really want a top-handle option. If I had a 12" bar sitting around, I would have gone down to it instead of the 14". Maybe I'll find a real cheap XL 2 with a 12" someday?

I agree that there is little difference between an 18" and a 20", so put your money into what you really want. If it were me, I think I'd stick with the 18" and buy a new bar/chain combo. With two chains, you can keep one sharpened on the shelf and ready to switch in at any time, then have the luxury of choosing when you want to sharpen the dull one. And you might even be able to salvage that original bar good enough to use it as a backup too.
 
[QUOTE="Mauser, post: 6720863, member: 1594xxcc
I did recently change my Poulan over to a rim sprocket instead of the stock spur sprocket because that is supposed to minimize wear and keep the chain running true (AND because the rim sprocket replacements are a LOT cheaper than the spur sprockets!). Perhaps someone with more knowledge of sprocket issues will chime in?[/QUOTE].

Are you typing or dictating?

This about the spur vs rim might not have bearing for the saw in question.

The rim drive should keep its effective diameter closer to original.

The spur probably deform the drive links more in normal use.

The spur will often on derailing bang up the drive links. Maybe 6 inches of them. Forcing those into the bar as opposed proper remedy is tempting.
 
To the original poster,
I find the wear in riveted in laminated bars that gets them discarded is real close to the nose sprocket.

Take the smart phone cord out of the golf ball sized thing at the outlet. It is USB, plug into computer.

Getting the same nose diameter might not be in stock.
 
Duce said:
Yes, you can have more links added to that chain for a cost. What size trees are you normally cutting? That would be determining factor in putting money into a longer bar and going from an 18" to 20" is not a big jump. In the end it is what you like to use and can afford.
Click to expand...

i cut anywhere from 4"- 20", usually. sometimes over. it's a 50cc saw, so wasn't sure if a longer bar would be a good idea in terms of power. it does great with 18", and if 20" is not a big jump, then i'd like to do it. you say "for a cost", i guess i'll have to see what that'll be before i move forward. the saw shop's not open, again, until tuesday
 

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