Large and getting larger Gullet in Sqr Ground chain

[user 122190]

Everything I know I learned from Buckin Billy Ray. He has answered a few of my questions but it is rare. So I asked the forum.

Billy is big on Get the Gullet, but not with Sqr Grd chains. Why?

As my chain on my 400c gets slowly used up the gullet has become more and more pronounced. Finally I said that is enough and removed a lot of metal to get all the gullet out. It was really bad. I did this with a small round file, and by the time I got all the gullet cleaned out much of the Sqr Gnd was pretty much gone. I considered putting a sqr grd back but decided to just convert it to a round file chain.

It makes sense to me that the double bevel file is not going to remove the gullet. What do you Sqr Gnd file guys do about the gullet? Leave it, go after it somehow? Or convert it to a round file chain like I have done?

 

[ammoaddict]

https://www.oregonproducts.com/en_ca/square-filing

 

[user 122190]

https://www.oregonproducts.com/en_ca/square-filing

Yup, like I thought. Thanks.

 

[ammoaddict]

You are welcome. I have read that several times but still have not attempted square filing.

 

[Squareground3691]

Square filed

 

[user 122190]

You are welcome. I have read that several times but still have not attempted square filing.

I had the 400 out yesterday and cut a trailer full of firewood. Saw ran good, but seemed a bit grabby in the cut. Maybe getting the out of control gullet was the problem. I should have taken some pictures but it was bad. Now it is a round filed chain and should be better. I'll know next time I get out and cut some more.

 

[Squareground3691]

I had the 400 out yesterday and cut a trailer full of firewood. Saw ran good, but seemed a bit grabby in the cut. Maybe getting the out of control gullet was the problem. I should have taken some pictures but it was bad. Now it is a found filed chain and should before better. I'll know next time I get out and cut some more.

Little to aggressive with the C under cut or rakers to low ? being grabby

 

[northmanlogging]

Everything I know I learned from Buckin Billy Ray. He has answered a few of my questions but it is rare. So I asked the forum.

Billy is big on Get the Gullet, but not with Sqr Grd chains. Why?

As my chain on my 400c gets slowly used up the gullet has become more and more pronounced. Finally I said that is enough and removed a lot of metal to get all the gullet out. It was really bad. I did this with a small round file, and by the time I got all the gullet cleaned out much of the Sqr Gnd was pretty much gone. I considered putting a sqr grd back but decided to just convert it to a round file chain.

It makes sense to me that the double bevel file is not going to remove the gullet. What do you Sqr Gnd file guys do about the gullet? Leave it, go after it somehow? Or convert it to a round file chain like I have done?

when it comes to square ground or filed chains, the "gullet" is less important to some extent.
If you take the time to dress the wheel, and set your grinder to take as much of the side plate as possible, you'll find you won't have to worry much about the "gullet"

Go at least until you get all of the flat of the side plate into the recess, this takes most of the peak that would form a gullet away. then around half chain life you can come in and knock down the peak some.

There are folks that will waste a great deal of time, effort, and wind removing every bit of the "gullet" anytime it shows up. I'll tell ya now this is a complete waste of effort, simply dressing the grinder and setting it up properly takes care of much of the work.

As for filing it back or grinding the gullet so that it leaves a sharp spot just bellow the side plate, WHY? it will never ever touch wood, the only reason to knock the peak off is that is eventually interferes with the side plates even then its negligible.

Granted much of this ^^ assumes you have a grinder and can dress/adjust your wheel and angles, if you're using a file, then you might find yourself dressing the "gullet" more often, as the files don't have the width to cut all of the side plate until down to the nubbins... kind of annoying really...

 

[northmanlogging]

Yup, like I thought. Thanks.

View attachment 1002014

1/8" of "shelf" on a 3/8"s pitch chain, thats a full 1/3rd of the tooth length

Note: it does show that the raker does side depth as well, if the "gullet" or "Shelf" is below the raker... what exactly are you accomplishing besides escaping the budget troll?

 

[user 122190]

when it comes to square ground or filed chains, the "gullet" is less important to some extent.
If you take the time to dress the wheel, and set your grinder to take as much of the side plate as possible, you'll find you won't have to worry much about the "gullet"

Go at least until you get all of the flat of the side plate into the recess, this takes most of the peak that would form a gullet away. then around half chain life you can come in and knock down the peak some.

There are folks that will waste a great deal of time, effort, and wind removing every bit of the "gullet" anytime it shows up. I'll tell ya now this is a complete waste of effort, simply dressing the grinder and setting it up properly takes care of much of the work.

As for filing it back or grinding the gullet so that it leaves a sharp spot just bellow the side plate, WHY? it will never ever touch wood, the only reason to knock the peak off is that is eventually interferes with the side plates even then its negligible.

Granted much of this ^^ assumes you have a grinder and can dress/adjust your wheel and angles, if you're using a file, then you might find yourself dressing the "gullet" more often, as the files don't have the width to cut all of the side plate until down to the nubbins... kind of annoying really...

I hand file.

 

[northmanlogging]

I hand file.

in that case, every couple of sharpenings, hit the "gullet" or the peak with a round file, just enough to keep it knocked back some.
and Consider buying a grinder... square filing is a PITA

 

[user 122190]

in that case, every couple of sharpenings, hit the "gullet" or the peak with a round file, just enough to keep it knocked back some.
and Consider buying a grinder... square filing is a PITA

Got a source on where to buy a grinder that will do square grinds that is reasonably priced?

 

[northmanlogging]

Got a source on where to buy a grinder that will do square grinds that is reasonably priced?

depends on your idea of reasonable...
A Simmington new is around $1000. last I knew they were about it for current manufacture
Sometimes you can find a used one for $500 ish.
Its something the folks at Oregon should probably consider getting into rather then more and more cheaper models of the round profile grinders...
But Oregon doesn't exactly give a S about "low" demand stuff like this. Just in gobbling up their better quality competition then discontinuing the products...
Anyway, the grinder will cut your filling time in half at least, as well as providing more consistent results, with tuning meaning you will cut better and faster...
If yer just cutting fire wood, or for home use, probably not worth it, but if you plan on making money, then it will pay for itself in short order.

 

[Sierra_rider]

I square file some of my falling chains and take the gullet out with a round file as needed. Getting rid of the gullet just makes square filing easier IMO.

 

[user 122190]

depends on your idea of reasonable...
A Simmington new is around $1000. last I knew they were about it for current manufacture
Sometimes you can find a used one for $500 ish.
Its something the folks at Oregon should probably consider getting into rather then more and more cheaper models of the round profile grinders...
But Oregon doesn't exactly give a S about "low" demand stuff like this. Just in gobbling up their better quality competition then discontinuing the products...
Anyway, the grinder will cut your filling time in half at least, as well as providing more consistent results, with tuning meaning you will cut better and faster...
If yer just cutting fire wood, or for home use, probably not worth it, but if you plan on making money, then it will pay for itself in short order.

I ask about the gullet. Spending a thousand is not an answer. I find sqr filing to be pretty straight forward and not at all difficult.

 

[northmanlogging]

I ask about the gullet. Spending a thousand is not an answer. I find sqr filing to be pretty straight forward and not at all difficult.

well, I use a cheapo harbor fright grinder to dress the rakers and hit the gullets when necessary.

However, I will repeat, that if you set up a square grinder correctly, the gullets are not a problem.

 

[user 122190]

I had the saw out this morning and it ran just fine. It had me thinking about the M-Tronic system. It is suppose to monitor the engine at 60Hz frequency. Is it not constantly changing the engines conditions? Out of the cut, in the cut, dogs applying leverage, engaging internal knots, etc. Seems the engine would be constantly adjusting itself to ever changing conditions that happen constantly as the saw is encountering ever changing loads.

Seems like it would be a hard thing for engineers to sort out and get just right for all foreseeable uses.

 

[Del_]

I had the saw out this morning and it ran just fine. It had me thinking about the M-Tronic system. It is suppose to monitor the engine at 60Hz frequency. Is it not constantly changing the engines conditions? Out of the cut, in the cut, dogs applying leverage, engaging internal knots, etc. Seems the engine would be constantly adjusting itself to ever changing conditions that happen constantly as the saw is encountering ever changing loads.

Seems like it would be a hard thing for engineers to sort out and get just right for all foreseeable uses.

I must be averaging running conditions. A sampling rate of 60hz doesn't mean that it is making adjustments that fast.

 

[Square Cutter]

Got a source on where to buy a grinder that will do square grinds that is reasonably priced?

There will be one coming out this fall. SquareJig.com

 

[user 122190]

Billy Buckin Ray has new videos where he is advocating not to remove the gullet, or that it don't matter on a sqr filed chain. Seems counter to his remove the gullet stance for so so many years. His proof seems a bit sloppy, but he is the master.