Large sugar maple tree needs pruned

[mboln52000]

I have a sugar maple thats about 30-34" across, and it has some limbs off to the side i would like to prune to gain better access under the tree. The limbs are about 8 to 10 across.

Is a tree ever too large to prune? Is there a rule about how much % of branches can be removed with out hurting one?

Thanks,

 

[Elmore]

Sugar Maple

Generally cut no more than 1/4 to 1/3 volume of the canopy. I would remove these branches in mid-summer, less bleed. By the way, I'm not an Arborist but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express once.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

I am a tree hugger.
Anything you do to the tree, or do under the tree, will hurt it.
Those saws, although cool, will only hurt the tree.
To a small maple, 25% is not much damage. To a mature hardwood, 5% could easily kill it.
There are way too many variables to give conclusive advise here.
Got a picture?

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Originally posted by mboln52000
The limbs are about 8 to 10 across.

Removing large limbs like this will usually leave lareg areas for decay to enter the trunk.

If there are several of then then you can interupt energy transfer to the roots too. I've seen trees with dead roots that I associate with the removal of limbs that had a large aspect ratio to the trunk.

Think of the tree as a biological system, if you remove major portions of that system you may cause it's eventual crash.

Arborists usually speak of it as decline, since it often takes a long time to for the stored energy to be depleated enough so that the crown shows noticable problems

All that said, consult with several arborists to see if what can be done to get what you want done and still treat the tree in a maner that will keep it around for generations to come.

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by Mike Maas
To a mature hardwood, 5% could easily kill it.

Boy I'd like to see the data there. I agree with the concept of range, old trees suffering from a small dose, but 5% is really small. Pictures would help a lot, but no substitute for having an arborist on site.
www.isa-arbor.com to find a local certified arborist.

 

[ROLLACOSTA]

Re: Sugar Maple

Originally posted by Elmore
Generally cut no more than 1/4 to 1/3 volume of the canopy. I would remove these branches in mid-summer, less bleed. By the way, I'm not an Arborist but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express once.

tree bleeding does not harm the tree recent study sujests ..personaly iwould only reccomend 10%reduction and only if neccery..maples tend to rot quickly..if large wounds are made

 

[ROLLACOSTA]

i think we all posted at a simaler time ..im pleased we all agree

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by mboln52000
I have a sugar maple thats about 30-34" across, and it has some limbs off to the side i would like to prune to gain better access under the tree.

How much access do you need? Best to stand back and consider reshaping the whole tree before removing major limbs. By cutting them to upright laterals, you make smaller wounds that will seal over and still gain access underneath. Light reduction of limbs above the lower ones can allow them to get enough sun and room to grow on.

If the access is needed for lawn mowing, consider a lower maintenance groundcover under your tree.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Originally posted by Guy Meilleur when he saw Maas said that 5% crown reduction could kill a tree
Boy I'd like to see the data there. I agree with the concept of range, old trees suffering from a small dose, but 5% is really small.

There was a speaker I listened to with great interest at an arborist meeting one time, long ago. He compared an old tree to an old man. He said you can kick an 18 year old man and it will have little effect on him. Do the same thing to a 97 year old man laying in a hospital bed and the outcome will be very different.
Although tactless, the point was made.
See, trees in urban (non-forest situations) are under tremendous stress, much like the old man in the hospital bed. The trees face compacted soil, pollution, overtrimming, improper trimming, buried roots, cut roots, overfertilization, insect and disease attacks from exotic pests and resulting from monocultures, lawn mower and lawn damage, on and on.
This year, Elmore cuts off 1/3 of the crown, next year ROLLACOSTA stops by and says another third is in order, the whole time what the tree needs is foliage added to itself!
Guy, if you are 97 and just making it by on a fixed income, like an old tree, and I come by and say you would look better if I took 5% of your income, would 5% still seem like a small amount?

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by Mike Maas
This year, Elmore cuts off 1/3 of the crown, next year ROLLACOSTA stops by and says another third is in order,

Whoa, cowboy! We know this is your most sensitive button, but you're painting opponents where they ain't. Elmore doesn't claim tp be an arborist; just crawled out of a Holiday Inn and hopefully won't get hired until he gets more experience. Rollacosta said "10% only if necessary" which I think is reasonable, so let's not slander the guy ok?

The analogy with the old man fits; I use it all the time. The "fixed income" analogy also fits, because a 97-yr old man may be able to gather other resources if his income is cut--greet people at Wal-Mart, take in a boarder, whatever.

Likewise even an old tree can put out new growth, in response to the shift in the auxin/cytokinin balance. Also, if only the lower, downright side (not major) branches are removed, the rest of the scaffold raises up toward the sun, grows from the upright tips, so it makes more food out of more sunlight.

I'm reminded of Shigo's analogy of a tree branch's cost/benefits to a bank account: at some point some branches withdraw more in support than they deposit in photosynthate. Even though they have leaves and are part of the living crown, it benefits the tree to remove them before they drain more resources. This removal should be done when there are signs, NOT in advance of individual branch decline.

It's hard to guess which branches will be expendable. And when mboln500 tells us how much access is desired, we'll know how much crown raising is desired, and go from there. We all know that whacking a 10" branch will rot the trunk, no question.

 

[Elmore]

Terra firma

Sounds exciting, being hired as an Arborist. At at a distant point in my past I may have invited such a position. At this point in my life I prefer to stay firmly planted on the ground, producing relatively rare cultivars of Japanese Maples and Ginkgoes.

 

[Elmore]

more info on this subject

"Mature trees should require little routine pruning. A widely accepted rule of thumb is never to remove more than 1/4 of a tree's leaf bearing crown. In a mature tree, pruning even that much could have negative effects. Removing even a single, large-diameter limb can create a wound that the tree may not be able to close. The older and larger a tree becomes, the less energy it has in reserve to close wounds and defend against decay or insect attack. The pruning of large mature trees is usually limited to the removal of dead or potentially hazardous limbs."

Okay, on a larger tree I'll concede that no more than 1/4 volume be removed. From the description of this Maple I don't think that there would be any problem with the proper removal of these limbs. Post a picture. " A picture is worth a thousand words." Also, "Imagination without education is like a bird without feet" but "Feet entangle birds tongues men". Check out time is 11:00 am

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Re: more info on this subject

Originally posted by Elmore
"A widely accepted rule of thumb is never to remove more than 1/4 of a tree's leaf bearing crown. In a mature tree, pruning even that much could have negative effects" ...Okay, on a larger tree I'll concede that no more than 1/4 volume be removed.

It seems that you read the first sentence more closely than the second. Why would you want to risk inducing negative effects? Applying rules of thumb to all cases doesn't work.

On your little trees 25% is a little; to a sugar maple with 10" side branches it is a whole lot. On your little trees wounds close fast, on that big tree they close slow or not at all.

"Sounds exciting, being hired as an Arborist."
Your transfer to Arborist hasn't happened yet, fortunately...the nursery is such an easier place to work.:alien:

 

[Guy Meilleur]

"Feet entangle birds tongues men".

Huh???

 

[Elmore]

Hey Guy, I don't really want to argue the point right now, maybe tomorrow, but you said "...the nursery is such an easier place to work." Why don't you explain, more fully, this statement.

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Bad grammar I guess; all I meant is that I grow trees to relax after climbing etc., thought it might be the same for others. Growing them is a challenge and not easy money by any means but not near the stress and strain of working on big trees.
nO offense meant.:blush: :blush:

 

[Elmore]

No Problemo

OK. Nursery can be hard or it can be a breeze. A lot of variables. I like making Maples and Ginkgoes though. Ginkgoes are easy compared to Japanese Maples. Speaking of Maples, if this tree were an Oak and not a Sugar Maple would you be as reluctant to remove these 8"-10" limbs? I have been thinking that if it were an Oak it would not be as critical. I don't know. Another rule of thumb is remove a lateral branch no bigger than 1/3 the size of the branch you are going to remove it from. Here is a Ginkgo that I have been grafting a little.

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Re: No Problemo

Originally posted by Elmore
if this tree were an Oak and not a Sugar Maple would you be as reluctant to remove these 8"-10" limbs?
Probably, depends on sp (Q nigra fast to rot, Q alba not, for instance)

Another rule of thumb is remove a lateral branch no bigger than 1/3 the size of the branch you are going to remove it from.
ANother rule that may work generally but can't be applied to all trees, esp. old trees.
Here is a Ginkgo that I have been grafting a little.

Nice tree. What so you mean, grafting a little--what, where?

"Feet entangle birds tongues men".

Huh???

 

[Elmore]

Ginkgo

I found this male Ginkgo growing in a yard in a community near me. I have taken a few pieces of scion wood and have grafted it to some of my rootstock. May only have grafted 6. I therefore grafted it a "little". As far as I know it is not a known cultivar but it is the finest rotund form that I have ever seen in person. I have 11 known cultivars growing. I have grafted 6 locally found trees that do not have a cultivar designation. I am working on 10 additional cultivars not previously grafted by me. Also grafting a historical ginkgo. A former president in our past is associated with it.
"Feet entangle birds tongues men". A big bird, accustomed to flight is often awkward walking on the ground so too are many humans when engaged in discourse. Or often when a ground dwelling predator catches a bird it grabs the bird by the legs or feet. The bird, on the ground, is not as adept as if in flight. Man, engaged in speach on an unfamiliar topic can be caught off guard by his words. For example a horticulturist using an Arborists forum. lol. I don't know the Fortune Cookies often don't explain the message in detail.