learning to climb on gaffs

[Ryan Willock]

Oak, i would definitely be willing to drive a few hours to learn from some one who knows what they are doing. i wanted to go through the arbormaster program but they weren't near me when i had the $$

 

[rbtree]

Ryan,

You are really on the right track. Here's some suggestions. i'm thinking any tree climbing and pruning training, not just gaff climbing...

look in lots of phone books, (Use the web too maybe) til you find a company employing certified arborists. see if you can apprentice with one. Maybe they will have someone good to help you, but then again, maybe not.

go to the ISA website, and search for certified arborists in your area. Remember, not all of them are climbers.

go to Sherril, I'll bet you could learn some stuff just kibbitzing with them.

You already have the Arbormaster video series, and TCC. That is a great start.

Also, go to Gerry Beranek's website, atreestory, to buy his book. it is the best, even with some dated material. As well, get Don Blair's "Arborist Equipment" It is loaded with good information.

As well, the archives here and on several other message boards are valuable sources- use the search feature here.

People like yourself that search out learning as opposed to just jumping in uninformed and untrained will go far in life!

 

[murphy4trees]

It's a lot easier to trust your lanyard when you don't need to....
That is if you have a climbing line set high in the tree. So sounds like you could use some instructions in using a throwline.. TRY THE BIG SHOT!!!!
And the best way to learn is by working with an experienced and progressive crew.. If you really want to learn this stuff.. get out the yellow pages and ask for a job.. offer to work on weekends or on call or for cheap if necessary. If you get more than one job offer.. see if you can find out what kind of friction hitch they use.
Go with the most advanced hitch.
God Bless,
Daniel

 

[rbtree]

Ryan,

Another thing that will help you get over the fear, is to set a lifeline before gaffing up. If you have someone give you a belay (w/ micro pulley fair lead), you can climb safely and faster, and just concentrate on the movements.

Also use mental conditioning to affirm to yourself that all is well. Try, when climbing to not look at you spurs as that is looking down, and you see the ground. Just focus on flipping up.

I have gaff climbed for 30 years, and rarely gaff out. Even if you do, 99% of the time you land right back on the climbers.

 

[Ryan Willock]

i called davey and they want a trained climber, as do the other major companies around here, that was the first thing i tried. i currently work for Glover's tree service but i don't trust his style. it works for him and he's been doing it for 29 years but he doesn't climb secure. i have throw line and ball and can use it fairly well. at work i'm them one who sets the ropes for directional pulls, i am learning to foot lock as well as other styles, info on them is in all the books, but gaffs on the other hand???? nope...sol. i have tried to get a job w/other arborists in the area but none are hiring. i've called them all several times

 

[Ryan Willock]

thanx rb, its hard to set a life line in these %*%$ pines
i use a life line when i can though, its much less work to repel down on a figure 8

 

[Ryan Willock]

what is the smallest diameter that ya'll will climb w/gaffs

 

[murphy4trees]

Depends what kind of tree it is.. maybe 8" on good oak.. and could go smaller if necessary but the need to get so close to tips is rare on most takedowns.
God Bless,
Daniel

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Care-fully @ 2.5-3" with round turn in lanyard to be dead-manned, probably one leg to a front D.

"Knowledge Replaces Fear"

It is nice we don't have any Billy-Bad-Azzes that deny knowing the human fear you speak of; and lend a hand rather than ridicule.

 

[Ryan Willock]

i REALLY appreciate all the help and advice its nice to know that there people out there willing to help. i just went outside and climbed 23" twice and just sat there for a while untill feet started to hurt to bad(my climbing boots are Stihl ProMarks) really comfortable don't burn your feet up in hot weather either! can you safely drop the top out of a pine 8" diameter w/about half the tree above you? if not how much is safe???

 

[rbtree]

Ryan

some things to watch for when topping:

Center of mass above you. In your favor is alway nice!

wind

grain structure, ie, no knots near the hinge

Actual cutting techniques should be covered in the Arbom. video.

Tip, when making backcut, NEVER cut out the hinge wood, be careful on the side away from you which is harder to see. Set up the hinge, and finish with a straight bladed handsaw, like the Silky Natanoko. Stand slightly to the side, for less chance of the top coming back into you. Stand more behind the top for best push. cut a little notch arms length above for a better surface to push off against. Or, have an assistant and a pull line-- much safer. but dont have him pull too hard, and not before the hinge is put in. Brace your self, make sure gaffs are firmly in, to be ready for the action.

Cutting an 8 inch top is ok, but it is rather large. and taking half the tree, especially if it is spindly, wil result in you taking quite a ride. It is better to go high, and take small stuff. Making a 70 degree open face will result in the smoothest release off the stump, giving less pull then push back- the forces that can cause the top to jump back at you. Keep the backcut a bit above the hinge apex to lessen that chance. I'm 160 and have no problem going into 2.5-3 " tops if the wood is straight and defect free. Maybe a tad bigger with pine.

Gerry's book is great, and about $30 for the softcover.

Bailey's also sell it.

 

[Ryan Willock]

how bad are the vibrations when the top goes? do you also hang onto the tree with your hands??? or hold your flip line???

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

In topping everything is moving faster, more dangerous than usual. IMAO, you should be very comfortable with climbing, tieing in etc. before placing your self in this position.

i have a center of balance thread brewing in my head for some weeks now; it is very determinate to success in many areas, especially healthwise here. As leaves fall (or 'spring' out the reverse), the center of balance tends to get better (lower) this time of year, but then if you take all of the lower limbs of top out, that alters that.............

i generally am tied in 2-3x snuggly, well planted on spurs too. After, top comes off, i flip the kill switch, as one hand brings saw out to side, the free one purposely slaps down onto the top of the stump, giving highest bracing, to highest hitchable point of torso (arm/shoulder).

Perhaps there will come a day when a man will get a second look from Davey if he seriously visits, questions and writes on this site, as it gets recognition in time!

When you know you are safe, put about 1' of slack in lanyard and fall comfortably against it, get a feel for where it will catch you, and how well it has you, try that with life line. Tighten up lifeline till your on your toes and sit in it, swing and dance around lightly in play, feel yourself floating on this 5-8k test line doubled over, and how well it has you. Watch similar lines handle large wood, and realize how much overkill a new (nonrigging) line of the same manufacture would have you safely in.

 

[Ryan Willock]

so do you drop all the limbs that are lower than where you want to cut or do you limb all the way to the cut i was thinking that a looprunner might would make a good backup tie-in... thoughts, comments???

 

[treeclimber165]

I agree with Rog about what to do when you top out a pine.
As far as hanging on after the cut-
I use a wide notch when possible, like Rog. I lean back against my lanyard (with lifeline tied around the trunk below my lanyard for a backup) so both hands are free to work. I start my back cut and watch for the top to start going. As soon as I see the top start to go (usually with about 1"-1 1/2" hingewood) I pull out my saw and brace. As soon as the top clears the cut, I grab the top of the stub and hold on. Usually don't take much of a ride, but I like to be holding on just in case.

I did a pine removal once, had to be 90' tall and 18" away from the house. No landing zone to speak of and the lean was over the roof. WE only had a 120' bull rope, and the first limb was almost 60' up. After going up and piecing off what I could, I came down and set the bull rope on that first limb. Made my notch aiming over the roof, tied the bull rope and started the back cut. When that 30'-35' top came over and slammed into the trunk, it kicked me off my gaffs and my hardhat landed in the middle of the driveway about 50' away. The brush cleared the roof by about 5'. We lowered the top to the roof and worked it from there, tossing the limbs over in the driveway. I was one sore pup for a day or two after that job. That had to be my worst ride yet.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

the rerason i like blocks is that you can set them where you need them, not on the best branch.

I had a job where the guy I was orking for said the loweing line would just make it, then when I got up there he remembered he'd had to cut off "a few feet" of it. I had to take the last few feet of lowering the top's out

Just think if you could have speedlined that thing over the roof

 

[treeclimber165]

That was about 5-6 years ago, John. I hadn't learned much about speedlines, or half the stuff I know about now. Besides, Davey didn't equip us very well. We had big expensive trucks, but nothing more than a rope and saddle for working in the trees. Getting a new handline or bull rope was a big deal, and I never saw a pulley or lowering block while I was there. Not even a throwball!

If I were to do the same tree today, I'd speedline it all to the driveway and use false crotches for the last 25' of wood, lowering it to the ground.

 

[Ryan Willock]

from the sound of it if you use an open face then you shouldn't have much vibration, correct??? do you use sap wood cuts below the notch to keep it from barber chairing ??

 

[lync]

works for me

Ryan,

You didn't mention what type of climbing system your using.
When you double wrap your flip line are you still tied in with your climbing line? The reason I mention it is that if your climbing with a split tail system it can act as a second lanyard while your getting your flipline double wrapped.

I used to double wrap my flip line to give me added lateral support, and I still do when the trunk is less than 5 inches,
but I have found that a single wrap on the flip line, with your climbing line choked below it gives an added measure of safety should your gaffs kick out and is much faster to climb with.

In my split tail system the climbing line is terminated with a locking rope snap, I encircle the trunk with the climbing line and clip into the line itself creating a choke(gate facing up on the snap). I slide my blakes hitch up to about 12 inches away from the snap. I hold both the climbing line and flip line together and progress them together up the trunk. When I get to the point that i'm going to top, I slide the blakes right up to the snap. This sytem has an added advantage, if you should get hurt (hit by the top, or cut by your saw) you can unclip your flipline with your good remaining hand and decend relatively quickly on your friction hitch, while you walk down the tree with your gaffs. You might melt your split tail but at that point who cares.

CJ

 

[coydog]

my understanding is that the more open faced cut the less vibration because the hinge has more room to work. when the faces actually close the hinge is already or almost already released. with a narrow face cut the two faces meet while the hinge is still holding, resulting in a pop off. narrower face means more vibration but also a sooner release. useful to practice because you can gauge what the top will do by the angle of your face cut. if you make a open faced cut the top will release angle top down, so when it hits the ground the butt will fall behind you or into the trunk. narrow cut means sooner release, resulting in an ideally horizontal jump forward. top will land horizontal to ground and butt end will be in front of you. too narrow could mean jump backward although ive never been unfortunate enough to witness that. today i removed a 30' pin oak that some serious decay in its base. didnt want to put a fell cut in the lower 10' because of questionable wood integrity. topped at between 10-15' up, because the top was longer than the trunk that i was tied into, had i made too open faced cut the tip would have jammed into the ground before or as the hinge released resulting in the base jumping back at me, that was a situation where i needed to know how to make the top jump away from me. same would apply if you were bombing a top down and there was say a fence or house behind you.
try climbing with 2 fliplines, if you reach an obstacle you can tie in with the other one before you unhook the first one.