Ryan Willock
Addicted to ArboristSite
why reconect? why not just remove the limb
learning to climb on gaffs
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murphy4trees
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It's good policy to be on a climbing line when you make a cut.. that is to make sure you can descend in a hurry should anything go wrong.
Another basic rule in tree climbing is stay above your cut whenever possible. So cutting branches to get them out of your way on the ascent is not recommended.
God Bless,
Daniel
Another basic rule in tree climbing is stay above your cut whenever possible. So cutting branches to get them out of your way on the ascent is not recommended.
God Bless,
Daniel
Last edited:
Nickrosis
Manned by Boderators
Originally posted by Ryan Willock
why reconect? why not just remove the limb
It's nice to stand on a wide platform while you're cutting or eating or pooping. It's a good practice to always climb with more than one lanyard or to use a 3 or 6 way lanyard. You'll see when you're trimming trees and don't have the option to cut every limb.
Nickrosis
rbtree
Addicted to ArboristSite
Gee, I've never pooped in a tree....
But every so often, bein an oldster with quick urges, I have to do something else.. I try to sneak it past the guys...and do a quick check of the telltales foist...
As i dont want them pithed off...
.. or worse, pithed on..
cause they might tie off my lifeline at the base...
..or do a basal prune...
But every so often, bein an oldster with quick urges, I have to do something else.. I try to sneak it past the guys...and do a quick check of the telltales foist...
As i dont want them pithed off...
.. or worse, pithed on..
cause they might tie off my lifeline at the base...
..or do a basal prune...
Nickrosis
Manned by Boderators
:Monkey: :blob5:
Monkey fist
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"Oh, that's the boss's incontinence problem."
Monkey fist
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"Oh, that's the boss's incontinence problem."
Of course i see reducing the top movement exactly opposite!
i keep a 4' lifeline connect only loop runner and biner for redirects and 3rd lifesupport attatchment points. Positve deadmanned grab in choke around branch. Works very well, and eventually becomes a rigging sling.
Making sure the top is leaning/balanced towards target or groundie is taking leveraged command from above the center of balance with line to adjusting the balance is imperative. Pulling a top off someone with a rope from below the center of balance can bring the top down on them. If someone pulls you forward with a line shoulder high, you will fall forward, if someone pulls you from your ankles, you come down on your butt, if a tree does that, it can hit the guy in the tree topping it. Taking ez/low branches you don't have to off the piece to be topped just to reduce weight can raise the center of balance, where a pulling line would have to be pulling from a higher point for the same leverage factor on center of balance. Things fall from their center of balance.
If it is a light top, and you are going to help by pushing it, i cut about waist high or lower, to place as much of my immense chest weight as high as possible, for highest leveraged push on the spar. Of course do lighter stuff first, this is some of the most dangerous parts of climbing, especially as you get into catching the top.
'Stick Trick' works well for me in plotting how much top will fit in the open area if i measure it before i get into tree.
Please be carefull!
i keep a 4' lifeline connect only loop runner and biner for redirects and 3rd lifesupport attatchment points. Positve deadmanned grab in choke around branch. Works very well, and eventually becomes a rigging sling.
Making sure the top is leaning/balanced towards target or groundie is taking leveraged command from above the center of balance with line to adjusting the balance is imperative. Pulling a top off someone with a rope from below the center of balance can bring the top down on them. If someone pulls you forward with a line shoulder high, you will fall forward, if someone pulls you from your ankles, you come down on your butt, if a tree does that, it can hit the guy in the tree topping it. Taking ez/low branches you don't have to off the piece to be topped just to reduce weight can raise the center of balance, where a pulling line would have to be pulling from a higher point for the same leverage factor on center of balance. Things fall from their center of balance.
If it is a light top, and you are going to help by pushing it, i cut about waist high or lower, to place as much of my immense chest weight as high as possible, for highest leveraged push on the spar. Of course do lighter stuff first, this is some of the most dangerous parts of climbing, especially as you get into catching the top.
'Stick Trick' works well for me in plotting how much top will fit in the open area if i measure it before i get into tree.
Please be carefull!
Rob Murphy
ArboristSite Operative
Some times on small tops I will give the butt a push after the hinge is broken so it will land more side on ......can fit the head into a smaller space...
One big thing to watch for that nearly came me undone is if the head/top catches on another tree...sending butt spearing back to you.
And bark teardown...
Actually i think that you really shouldn't attempt to learn unsupervised even with the best Vidoes or Internet info....
One big thing to watch for that nearly came me undone is if the head/top catches on another tree...sending butt spearing back to you.
And bark teardown...
Actually i think that you really shouldn't attempt to learn unsupervised even with the best Vidoes or Internet info....
Kneejerk Bombas
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It seems to me that an open faced notch would have the potential to generate much more spar movement.
As the top starts to fall, there is some pushing back from the top. Then when the top gets to around 35 to 45 degrees there is little presure from the top. As the top gets past this point, there is tremendous pulling from the top. It has reached a high rate of fall and has developed huge dynamic forces. If the hinge hasen't broken free by this angle, get ready to get flicked like a booger off an index finger.
As the top starts to fall, there is some pushing back from the top. Then when the top gets to around 35 to 45 degrees there is little presure from the top. As the top gets past this point, there is tremendous pulling from the top. It has reached a high rate of fall and has developed huge dynamic forces. If the hinge hasen't broken free by this angle, get ready to get flicked like a booger off an index finger.
Dang i hate agreeing with Mike, takes almost all of the fun out of it!
All, i could figure out Mike is that they were waiting for the top to pull straight down into the spar as it tore, rather than pulling across it getting that 'ping'. But i see such increased travel as force building also.
Y'all like the new avatar Nick sent me? Was looking for one and then it appeared! Thanx again Nick!
All, i could figure out Mike is that they were waiting for the top to pull straight down into the spar as it tore, rather than pulling across it getting that 'ping'. But i see such increased travel as force building also.
Y'all like the new avatar Nick sent me? Was looking for one and then it appeared! Thanx again Nick!
Ryan Willock
Addicted to ArboristSite
BELIEVE ME, i have NO intensions about topping one until i can get someone w/expeirance there with me!
rbtree
Addicted to ArboristSite
Have you guys been to "Chainsaw" and seen all of Art Martin's fabulous old pics and great stories...?
Esp. read the one about topping 250 foot plus redwood at 200 feet for spar trees. he talks about 60 foot circles of movement afterwards!! Frankly i highly doubt if that much movement could occur, but surely a lot. And he talks about all the injuries and fatalities of the huge tops coming down on the climber.
I rarely take big tops, so seldom experience much pull/push, and I use 20-45 degree open faces, as i want the top to break off and fall flat. Smaller angles are for when I'm dropping trunk wood and want to slow down the spin rate. (Actually, I just took a 30-35 foot, 13 inch fir top, made an appx 50 degree face, with 88 feet of tree below me, and felt little movement.)
However, I am fairly positive that an open face will create much smoother action, and less pull/push movement. I've only done a few, and mainly it is when I want the top to land close to the trunk, and not sail out.
Esp. read the one about topping 250 foot plus redwood at 200 feet for spar trees. he talks about 60 foot circles of movement afterwards!! Frankly i highly doubt if that much movement could occur, but surely a lot. And he talks about all the injuries and fatalities of the huge tops coming down on the climber.
I rarely take big tops, so seldom experience much pull/push, and I use 20-45 degree open faces, as i want the top to break off and fall flat. Smaller angles are for when I'm dropping trunk wood and want to slow down the spin rate. (Actually, I just took a 30-35 foot, 13 inch fir top, made an appx 50 degree face, with 88 feet of tree below me, and felt little movement.)
However, I am fairly positive that an open face will create much smoother action, and less pull/push movement. I've only done a few, and mainly it is when I want the top to land close to the trunk, and not sail out.
Top it
ArboristSite Lurker
The wider the notch, the greater the spar movement. Just MHO.
treeman82
Addicted to ArboristSite
When I blow out the top on any tree I try to place my lanyard between 2 branches. I think that why I do this is so that 1) the branch above my ropes will keep them from jumping up over the top (never had it happen). and 2) so that in case I lose my footing the lower branch will keep me from taking a ride. I know that you can't find that scenario on all trees, but when I can find them, I use them to my advantage. Also, I find that if you are working with small trees (less than 15"DBH) that you feel EVERYTHING you do so much more, especially if you are rigging out pieces. Also take into consideration that once you have blown out the top of a tree, you are the tallest part of that tree, and therefore any significant movements you make will influence what the spar below you does.
Ryan Willock
Addicted to ArboristSite
i think that the thought of the movement from dropping the top is part of why i have a problem going above 25'. i had always wondered about the movement. it seems to me that when the top goes that the vibrations will be in the direction of the face/backcut?? and if so from that standpoint wouldn't it be better to be behind the backcut
just my thoughts, don't know so thought i would ask
just my thoughts, don't know so thought i would ask
Ryan Willock
Addicted to ArboristSite
i've also learned to bodythrust into the tree my friends land lord called me this morning and asked if i would dead wood his pin oak today so i looked at it and told him yes i would. got up in it to 30' w/no probs and yes i was secured and do know proper purning techniques and no i didn't gaff up either:angel:
my friends land lord called me this morning and asked if i would dead wood his pin oak today so i looked at it and told him yes i would. got up in it to 30' w/no probs and yes i was secured and do know proper purning techniques and no i didn't gaff up either:angel:treeclimber165
Member A.K.A Skwerl
Actually, you can hold on easier when the spar moves side to side. You let the pole move and balance in the middle (kinda like dancing). If you are directly in line with your cut (behind your back cut), you have no good way to let your legs and arms absorb the shock. Plus you should NEVER be directly in line with your back cut, in the air or on the ground.
I must disagree with Top-It. With a narrow notch, the top starts to go over and the butt pushes the spar back. As the top has the greatest amount of side force on the spar, your notch breaks loose.
With a wider notch, the top starts to go over, pushes the spar back, the spar springs back pushing the top away from the spar as the top breaks free. It is a smoother release of energy, instead of the top 'popping' off when fully tensioned to the side.
I must disagree with Top-It. With a narrow notch, the top starts to go over and the butt pushes the spar back. As the top has the greatest amount of side force on the spar, your notch breaks loose.
With a wider notch, the top starts to go over, pushes the spar back, the spar springs back pushing the top away from the spar as the top breaks free. It is a smoother release of energy, instead of the top 'popping' off when fully tensioned to the side.
Ryan Willock
Addicted to ArboristSite
cool. i knew i was dangerous to cut w/the bar in-line with your body but that was just a thought what you said makes sense though
what you said makes sense though
Tom Dunlap
Addicted to ArboristSite
Back at the begining of my climbing career I was taught to climb with spikes. the best way that I can see to get comfy on spikes is to climb with an overhead climbing system in place. Set a rope in a false crotch like normal. You should have a copy of The Tree Climber's Companion. Then, if you need to learn how to set a false crotch from the ground you can refer to the illustrations. With the overhead tie in you will be on a belay at all times. Kind of like having a safety net under you.
Do small, low work at first and move higher and bigger as your comfort level grows. Always have two points of attachment when using a chain saw. Not a bad idea when doing sketchy handsaw work either.
Learn how to set up and Adjustable False Crotch. So a search here, this has been discussed pretty thoroughly. The AFC really shines when you get to the point of working the spar. You will always be tied into a safe climbing system that will get you to the ground under control. The flat strap system that Sherrill sells has some real limitations. Besides, you can make one up using parts that you probably have on hand for almost no cost.
Keep your knees away from the trunk. It helps to be a bit bow legged If you get your knees close to the trunk you'll be more likely to cut out.
It seems to me the best way to reduce the amount of spar whip is to cut an open face followed by a plunge cut, leaving a strap on the back. You can put the chainsaw away, get yourself over to the side and finish the cut with a handsaw. The top should hinge over and not hang up on the hinge wood. If the top stays attached to the spar it pulls the spar in the direction of fall. When the hinge breaks the spar recoils. That's where the whip comes from. If the spar can hinge and let go you should have minimal whipping.
Be careful of the whip. If the trunk isn't solid you have the added risk of breaking the spar. Anyone who know's about how Pete Donzelli was killed will have a huge respect for the whip on a trunk
Glad that you're connected here!
Tom
Do small, low work at first and move higher and bigger as your comfort level grows. Always have two points of attachment when using a chain saw. Not a bad idea when doing sketchy handsaw work either.
Learn how to set up and Adjustable False Crotch. So a search here, this has been discussed pretty thoroughly. The AFC really shines when you get to the point of working the spar. You will always be tied into a safe climbing system that will get you to the ground under control. The flat strap system that Sherrill sells has some real limitations. Besides, you can make one up using parts that you probably have on hand for almost no cost.
Keep your knees away from the trunk. It helps to be a bit bow legged
If you get your knees close to the trunk you'll be more likely to cut out.It seems to me the best way to reduce the amount of spar whip is to cut an open face followed by a plunge cut, leaving a strap on the back. You can put the chainsaw away, get yourself over to the side and finish the cut with a handsaw. The top should hinge over and not hang up on the hinge wood. If the top stays attached to the spar it pulls the spar in the direction of fall. When the hinge breaks the spar recoils. That's where the whip comes from. If the spar can hinge and let go you should have minimal whipping.
Be careful of the whip. If the trunk isn't solid you have the added risk of breaking the spar. Anyone who know's about how Pete Donzelli was killed will have a huge respect for the whip on a trunk
Glad that you're connected here!
Tom
Ryan Willock
Addicted to ArboristSite
how was he killed? how much expereance
