mis-matched ripping chain w/ sprocket tip?

[nolteboy]

Howdy Folks

I've been hanging out and reading for a while, learning a lot, but this is my first post.

I am tryin to get set up to mill, and have run into a (potential) snag with my chain and bar. I did purchase some ripping chain (low profile WoodsmanPRO 30LR) (0.365 x 0.050), and I have a straight new bar (a GB, also a 0.050) for it. The good folks at Bailey's assured me that running it on a 0.375 sprocket would be no problem (their catalog states this, but I even called them to ask, such was my paranoia), but I forgot to ask about the sprocket tip on the bar. When I put a loop of the ripping chain on, the bases of the tie straps of course sit right down next to the bar edge itself, except where the chain runs out around the sprocket tip - when the sprocket tip teeth start to make contact with the ripping chain, the tie strap bases "sit out" a couple of millimeters (oops, my redneck past reminds me to add the imperial equivalent - maybe a 16th of an inch?) away from the bar itself. It almost looks like the teeth of the sprocket tip might be too thick for the spaces between the tie straps of the ripping chain, and are pushing the chain out away from the bar slightly. That said, a visual of the ripping vs regular (crosscut) chain reveals no noticeable difference in spacing here. Now that I think about it, I s'pose that the tiny difference in spacing between 0.365 and 0.375 drive links could indeed be the culprit, and that the "adding up" of this difference as the 7 or 8 (0.365) links run around the bar tip is enough to cause this...

When I put a loop of regular (crosscut) chain on this same bar, the tie straps sit right down against the bar out at the tip. Looks normal.

I haven't yet fired it up with the ripping chain on it, as "something just don't look right", and I don't want to booger up my setup before I even get a chance to cut something. I guess I should probly worry about safety too.

Anybody ever seen this or had it happen to them? I have the feeling that dozens of you are rolling your eyes as you ready this - I know I am probably making some dumb mistake. I appreciate your comments nonetheless.

Watch your fingers.

nolteboy

 

[Mad Professor]

I can't recall hearing of 0.365 chain, do you mean 0.325?

I'd be at least if not MORE concerned with mismatch at the clutch sprocket.

 

[Haywire Haywood]

3/8 low pro chain is actually .365, not .375. I'm interested in the answer to NB's question also as I'll be purchasing some of bailey's lo-pro ripping chain in a few weeks too.

Ian

 

[aggiewoodbutchr]

Howdy and welcome of AS.

Sprocket noses are typically designed to lift the chain from the tip rails as it reduces friction. Check out what can happen when a chain doesn't have the clearance it needs at the nose when milling.

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=45983&highlight=GB


As far as I know .365 is designed to run on .375 sprockets. I can't recall ever seeing .365 clutch or bar sprockets being sold anywhere.

 

[Haywire Haywood]

Good info AWB, seems that it standing a little off the bar tip is a good thing. Rep for you.

Ian

P.S. Bah, out of bullets.

 

[Rodney Sinclair]

Nolteboy, I run a M7 Logosol with the 385 Huskey and use this "lowprofile" chain so I'll tell you what I know about it. First thing, it's a Stihl 63 PM Picco chain ground to a 10* angle. And there is only two places I know of you can get it in the USA. That be from Logosol and Bailey's with Bailey's being about half price. There is a reason for that. Stihl is the better chain and no dealer in this country will sell you that chain. If you buy one from Logosol, it say's on the box "For Canadian Market Only" and then you can only buy in 16", 20" and 24". Any thing longer will not hold up. When I use a longer bar than the 24", I go back to the standard 3/8 chain. All the sprockets are 3/8 but I have one for each bar so they wear together. The bar that Logosol sells for this chain is Forester. You might check out thier website and do some reading on thier forum. Hope this helps.
Rodney

My guess is anyone rollin' their eyes hasn't been through all this

 

[woodshop]

Just wanted to say welcome to AS.

I don't use LP chain for chain saw milling as I never mill with anything less than a 36 inch bar and I think LP is just too fragile for that length. Guess I'm just paranoid of the chain breaking and trying to wrap itself around my hands or head.

 

[aggiewoodbutchr]

I have run .325 .063 ga chain behind a modified 084 on bars up to 44" quite a bit now. The difference between it an 3/8 and 404 is amazing... faster, smoother and it's held up well so far. Give it a try, you won't be disappointed.

 

[Haywire Haywood]

Everything I've read suggested that the thickness of the drivers doesn't affect chain strength to any degree. I would think that .325 would be stronger than 3/8 low pro. That LP stuff just looks flimsy.

Ian

 

[nolteboy]

muchas gracias

Thanks, everybody. Based on AWB’s comments I guess I need to fire it up and see what happens. I’ll be careful and take it slow. Rodney and Woodshop, I am only using a 20 inch bar for this chain – I had read somewhere about not using too long a loop of it. Indeed, it does seem to be “light duty” – when you first take it out and look at it you’re thinking “man I hope this stuff holds up”. I chose it with the intent of keeping the kerf thin and the waste to a minimum. I guess time will tell whether the .375 ripping chain is a better choice? Maybe someday I’ll be able to weigh in and give a measured opinion on that.
nolteboy

 

[Rodney Sinclair]

You should do OK with a 20" bar. The biggest trick I find with this chain is to keep it sharp. I try to run a couple of licks with a file before the chain gets dull. Once it's dull, it's to late.

Rodney

 

[aggiewoodbutchr]

Everything I've read suggested that the thickness of the drivers doesn't affect chain strength to any degree. I would think that .325 would be stronger than 3/8 low pro. That LP stuff just looks flimsy.

Ian

I guess it depends on the make of the chain. I believe Stihl uses .063 ga metal through out the chassis of the chain and only the tang of the driver is thinner for smaller ga. bars so in this case it would not mater. I'm not sure if other manufacturers use this same practice or if they make the entire chain out of the stated gauge of metal. Any help with this one anybody?

Bottom line is I can only vouch for .063 ga. as it is the only chain I use for milling.

 

[cpm]

it's a Stihl 63 PM Picco chain ground to a 10* angle. And there is only two places I know of you can get it in the USA. That be from Logosol and Bailey's

Rodney;
Where does Bailey's list this chain?
I've heard you could get stihl 63 pm from them, but I can't find it listed.
Do I just need to call them, do they sell it in loops?

 

[Rodney Sinclair]

Rodney;
Where does Bailey's list this chain?
I've heard you could get stihl 63 pm from them, but I can't find it listed.
Do I just need to call them, do they sell it in loops?

Look for item No. WP365 30LR. I think it's on sell right now at $0.19 a DL. Yes, they will make you up your loops. Just make sure you got your DL count right. On the web-site, it should be with the ripping chain.

The Stihl chain you get from the dealer is 63 PM ground at 30*. They won't sell you this ripping chain (63 PMX) ground at 10*. The only place I know of to get this Stihl chain is from Logosol.

Hope this helps

Rodney

 

[cpm]

Look for item No. WP365 30LR.
Rodney

Well, I appreciate that. So the WP365 30LR is a good replacement for the stihl 63 pmx.
That's good to know.

The Stihl chain you get from the dealer is 63 PM ground at 30*. They won't sell you this ripping chain (63 PMX) ground at 10*. The only place I know of to get this Stihl chain is from Logosol.

Hope this helps

Rodney

Yeah, it helps.

I don't begrudge anyone for making money. That's what enterprise is all about. but man,
I'd just like to second source the Stihl chain somewhere else to get a idea how
much is enough. Logosol wants a lot of money for that chain. It's got my local
stihl guy completely stumped (eh, sorry).

I'm maybe going up through Canada later this fall, maybe I'll stop by some stihl shops
up there just to see.

I'd also like to get some motomix, just to try it.

Anyway, thanks.

--

 

[nolteboy]

it works!

Turns out that all that bidness about the chain standing too far off of the bar tip was just my overcautious "newbie-ness". My CSM made her maiden voyage this weekend, and I don't think that the term "rough lumber" ever applied more accurately than to the results of my first efforts. You would've thought I had just experienced the birth of my first child, though, I was so proud. This I can say with confidence: from here I can only improve!

The ripping chain seems to do it's thing pretty well. Produces a much finer sawdust than what I'm used to from crosscutting (Ponderosa pine).

Just wanted to let you guys know - thanx again for your help!

nolteboy