raumati01
ArboristSite Operative
My old man worked on a joinery factory for 25 years, no dust mask, extractor fan, or ear muffs. Now he has emphysema , no more hunting together or cutting firewood together which makes me pretty sad to be honest.
My old man would take the saw outside and cut away without any safety equipment
- Thread starter klaus von herten
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Funny thing about hearing protection is that when wearing it sometimes you can actually pick out sounds that would otherwise be masked by the unattenuated noise. I was shooting a .22 semi-auto rifle the other day while I had ear plugs in and could actually hear the cycling of the action which I normally wouldn't be able to without.
TBS
I have chainsaws and chainsaw accessories.
I go either way as far as chaps go but most times I wear them because they keep my pants a bit cleaner and thinking about ruining a nice pair of oregon chap makes me be more careful. Having a hard hat and ear protection is a must for me as im dumb enough as it is and i don't need a tree knocking more sense out of me. I've always worn ear protection but learned just how valuable it is when one of my ear plugs came out while cleaning 48 inch concrete pipe forms which is a LLLOOOUUUDDD process. I lost 100% of my hearing in my right ear for 2 days.
Glasses all the time, no matter what I'm doing (I've just gotten used to them) and ear plugs when cutting long term like firewood or lots of bucking. Other than that, no protection gear other than gloves when handling brush and feeding the chipper. Never owned a pair of chaps, feet are too wide to wear steel toed boots, never wore a mask or deflector, own 5-10 hard hats, all unused.
As mentioned, I just have faith in the fact that I know what I'm doing at all times. Every move intentional and deliberate. Unsure? Don't do it.
As mentioned, I just have faith in the fact that I know what I'm doing at all times. Every move intentional and deliberate. Unsure? Don't do it.
Rockjock
Addicted to ArboristSite
Full PPE is what I use when I am out cutting, seen too many " experts " wind up in the emerg room because they knew better. Recently an expert that had been cutting for 40 years cut a thumb sized branch under pressure and had it spring back and slice him deeply on his inner thigh. While in hospital the ER doctor pointed out that he narrowly missed his femoral artery. Had he nicked that it would be 1 less table setting at his house. The make extra wide shoes, cutting pants with mesh backs and even hearing protection radios built in.. just saying....
tacomatrd98
ArboristSite Guru
I definitely get a little complacent when fully geared up, whether its riding motorcycles, cutting wood or anything really. My typical firewood cutting gear consists of blue jeans, t-shirt, Safety toe 8" work boots and a ball cap. I always have ear muffs or plugs in, and gloves. My pap was deaf as a post from years of being a mechanic in the army working on loud equipment with no ear protection. I vowed to take care of my ears. 8" boots mostly to keep the chips out of my socks lol
I find if I'm not comfortable in what I'm wearing, I'm more likely to mess up and in turn get injured. Respect for the equipment and knowing your limitations is the best way to stay safe.
I find if I'm not comfortable in what I'm wearing, I'm more likely to mess up and in turn get injured. Respect for the equipment and knowing your limitations is the best way to stay safe.
beastmaster
Addicted to ArboristSite
I think ppe is good, but it has takwn thw darwin factor out. We saws first came out with brakes we would take them off. Double and triple locked whatever, we would grind them off. Using two rie ins in a tree, never we learned not to cut our rope. Developed habits to prevent accidents. Never use to use a helmet up in a tree.
I use all my ppe these days but there are somethings that seem over kill, but it is what it is.
The death per 1000 people in the logging industry is a fraction of what it was at the turn of the century(1900).
I use all my ppe these days but there are somethings that seem over kill, but it is what it is.
The death per 1000 people in the logging industry is a fraction of what it was at the turn of the century(1900).
A key thing here is what's called 'Survivor Bias'; people hear stories from guys who state, 'I never wore chaps / safety glasses / helmets, . . . wore seat belts, . . . used a harness, . . . , etc. and I'm still here!'
The guys who died are not around in the bars, etc., to present an opposing view. If you take the personal story out of the argument and look at injuries and fatalities from a quantitative perspective, you will get a different view.
I agree 100% that PPE does not make one safe by itself - a pair of chaps does not provide any instruction in falling a tree, or operating a saw. In safety we look at PPE as the last line of defense, in a layered approach to reduce the risks of injury, including engineering / design of equipment, and work practices.
'PPE does not replace good work practices: Good work practices do not eliminate the need for PPE' (Philbert).
The third argument commonly raised is 'experience'. But how does a new guy survive long enough to gain that experience? Again, another form of survivor bias, unless the experienced guys can effectively communicate the hazards and controls to the new guys, beyond advice to 'watch me' or 'keep your head on a swivel' when there are so many things that get even the experienced guys? This remnds me of the definition: "Experience - a series of non-fatal accidents'.
Philbert
The guys who died are not around in the bars, etc., to present an opposing view. If you take the personal story out of the argument and look at injuries and fatalities from a quantitative perspective, you will get a different view.
I agree 100% that PPE does not make one safe by itself - a pair of chaps does not provide any instruction in falling a tree, or operating a saw. In safety we look at PPE as the last line of defense, in a layered approach to reduce the risks of injury, including engineering / design of equipment, and work practices.
'PPE does not replace good work practices: Good work practices do not eliminate the need for PPE' (Philbert).
The third argument commonly raised is 'experience'. But how does a new guy survive long enough to gain that experience? Again, another form of survivor bias, unless the experienced guys can effectively communicate the hazards and controls to the new guys, beyond advice to 'watch me' or 'keep your head on a swivel' when there are so many things that get even the experienced guys? This remnds me of the definition: "Experience - a series of non-fatal accidents'.
Philbert
Chainsaw Jim
CJ Saws, LLC
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Some of those old boys knew what they were doing! They just did period, maybe that's why they survived albeit with hearing loss.
RandyMac
Stiff Member
Survivor bias? Another freshly minted buzz phrase? Did'ja get a patent on those kevlar jockeys yet? "Experience - a series of non-fatal accidents'' LMAO!!!
My father never wore any safety equipment. He used to preach to me about being careful with the saw. One day he was cutting and he tripped and fell forward, the saw hit his right leg and knee. I saw it happen. Almost 100 stitches later and knee surgery. I was 17 then, I bought my first set of leather chaps (ha ha) then. And have worn safety equipment since.
Chainganger
ArboristSite Lurker
I think fatigue is a huge deal
Now that I am older (62) I find saying to myself..."I have done a good job so far, I am tired.... I will quit while I am ahead..."
So I quit, there is no reason to push it.
A good friend, close to 70 now, lived in the northern woods of Minnesota his whole life and cut firewood. A couple of years ago had a bad chainsaw accident and cut his leg deeply, if it can happen to him it can happen to anyone.
Now that I am older (62) I find saying to myself..."I have done a good job so far, I am tired.... I will quit while I am ahead..."
So I quit, there is no reason to push it.
A good friend, close to 70 now, lived in the northern woods of Minnesota his whole life and cut firewood. A couple of years ago had a bad chainsaw accident and cut his leg deeply, if it can happen to him it can happen to anyone.
beastmaster
Addicted to ArboristSite
In no way am i saying ppe isn't something to be wore while doing tree work. But i will say a lot of technecs that a saw man or climber learned from the more experienced guys back in the day is getting lost.
I learned how to hold a saw while cutting so it would miss me in case of kixk back, i learn to pass a saw behind my back so to not risk cutting my lanyard. It was ingrained in me not to ever cut over my rope while in a tree. I learn these thinks from more experienced guys. All these things became habits. You didn't just become a climber or feller you worked the ground learning, and if you had what it took experts would teach you.
Accidents can happen even with ppe. But to this day even with chaps on i slip or fall my saw is away from me, don't even have to think.
Just saying 30 years ago, it wasnt survivors, it was training to safely do the job with what we had. Lots of that knowege is getting lost becouse ppe is thought of as a magic safety net of protection. Wear your helmets, chaps if you got them, kalvar gloves, blood stopper, steel toe boots, fire extinguisher on your belt, but don't forget basic safety, and common sense.
I learned how to hold a saw while cutting so it would miss me in case of kixk back, i learn to pass a saw behind my back so to not risk cutting my lanyard. It was ingrained in me not to ever cut over my rope while in a tree. I learn these thinks from more experienced guys. All these things became habits. You didn't just become a climber or feller you worked the ground learning, and if you had what it took experts would teach you.
Accidents can happen even with ppe. But to this day even with chaps on i slip or fall my saw is away from me, don't even have to think.
Just saying 30 years ago, it wasnt survivors, it was training to safely do the job with what we had. Lots of that knowege is getting lost becouse ppe is thought of as a magic safety net of protection. Wear your helmets, chaps if you got them, kalvar gloves, blood stopper, steel toe boots, fire extinguisher on your belt, but don't forget basic safety, and common sense.
