New Lemon Chipper

[thansen]

So, I just bought a new track chipper. Actually built in 2007 sold as new from a dealer in NC. New warranty all that good stuff. It's been a night mare and I need to vent.
First I recieved the machine and it wouldnt even track up onto our trailer. Track preassures were adjusted down to 1000# and should have been at 3500#. Turns out they forgot to install a check ball in the valve bank when they installed the winch. Then the winch was only adjusted to put out 200# psi and should have been around #2500psi im told. There was a hydraulic leak on one of the main lines coming from the tank, the discharge chute crank handle was broken, hydraulic oil was low (tank gauge said 1/4) it had used blades/knives a frayed and damanged winch rope and the decals and warning labels were unreadable, faded, cracked, etc. Keep in mind I waited for weeks for this machine to be work ready once it hit the ground here and it was purchased as new machine with new warranty.
Then had over 30 unknown errors, over 30 low engine oil preassure errors, over 30 engine over heat errors. And some of this according to the Catapiller computer was happening before they even sold the machine to me.
The machine was sent out here with a single belt instead of a double cogged fan/pump belt which broke, wrapped around the plastic fan, distroyed it, destroyed the radiator. Replaced those, a guy from the factory drove out here and was here for a week working on it. Then the winch shaft broke, got a new one of those, found out the drive on hydro motor for the winch was stripped. Ordered a new hydro motor, then one of the main hydraulic hoses blew, actually blew out of the fitting right from the hydraulic pump, blew the hose to bits, right in the middle of the road, so we had to pull the planetary gears out of the tracks to move it off the road. Got all that fixed then, it happend again today on the next hydraulic hose after the high pressure filter. I've only put 62 hours on this machine since i got it and all of this has happened. 62 hours in 2.5 months and i've got worked stacked up for at least 5 months straight. It flippin sucks! I can't do these projects without that chipper. I've lost 3 employees because of the down time and am easily 52 days behind schedule now that i calculated things out. Its been a nightmare with this machine, but now that I have atleast had a taste of what can be done with it and have been landing contracts just because I have a machine like this but it wont last a 8 hr work day without breaking down. We have yet to have a good full day.

 

[thansen]

So anyone have any ideas? What would you do?

 

[Blakesmaster]

Ouch. Sue.

 

[Mowingman]

Ok, tell us what brand this thing is. I assume it is either Morebark, or Bandit??
The problem with these old, "new" machines is the lack of use. you are looking at the following problems when you have a machine set nearly unused for 3 years.
1. Every seal will dry out and leak, sooner or later
2. Anything rubber, like hoses will dry rot and fail at an early age.
3. You have already mentioned paint and decal problems.
4. The hydraulic and diesel tanks will have a large amount of water in them from condensation.
Any machine that has set unused for this long, should go back to the factory for a complete service and refurbishment before being sold.
Were you told this machine was rented out, or used as a demo machine?
It was, or it would not have used knives, and Cat would not have records of problems from it's previous use.
I would not sue just yet. I would cut the dealer out of this right now, and go direct to the factory for a settlement.
Call and personaly talk to the manager of customer service, or the president of the company. Be sure to hint that a suit might not be out of the question, and if that happens, you will be looking for damaged for lost productivity,and delayed/lost contracts. But, you would rather settle this in some other manner than in the courts.
I would not settle for anything less than a new replacement machine, or, a newly refurbished machine, either one needs to have a full, new machine warranty.
Good luck.
Jeff

 

[thansen]

The machine is a Bandit 1890HD. I cut the dealer out, after the very first problems I encountered and have been dealing with the factory. They did tell me it was a demo machine, so the used knives I actually understand. It was just something else to put on the list that I feel after spending that kind of money they could have put new knives on it. I've had so many problems with this machine that they actually sent a mechanic out here from the factory to work on it and was here for almost a week, which I was greatly impressed and thankful. The trouble is, that as soon as he left, something else went wrong. And it just keeps happending, something else, something different, and I keep loosing days and days and more employees. I was leary of buying a new old machine because of the same reasons that you have mentioned. I felt confident after talking to the guys at the factory and knowing that it was coming with a new warranty but hind site is 20/20. Thanks for the advice, I have been in contact with the factory pretty much every day and they are trying to come up with a plan. I just want to go work with a machine that I can count on! After seeing what this machine can do when it works properly I dont want to settle for anything else, it is amazing what we can get done, untill the next thing breaks that is!

 

[thansen]

Anyone know a good lawyer who has dealt with this kind of deal? The best I have got offered so far is to send it back to the Bandit Factory at my expense and have them go over it. I am fuming.

 

[arbor pro]

Anyone know a good lawyer who has dealt with this kind of deal? The best I have got offered so far is to send it back to the Bandit Factory at my expense and have them go over it. I am fuming.

Very best I would think you might be able to sue for would be the cost of renting a similar machine during times of down time. That said, would guess there is a clause in the Banidt warranty that specifically states what they will pay for in such circumstances and what they won't.

Since they are trying to fix the problem, it at least sounds like they are trying to fulfill their warranty obligations. I'm not downplaying your frustration - I would be PO'd too. I just don't think you will be able to recover any damages for down time and lost income. I'd demand they bring you a replacement machine (new or otherwise) to use while they take yours (at their expense) and rebuild it at the factory.

Oh, and make sure they understand that this is a problem for them if word gets out on public forums about the poor quality of their product. Ask them if they prefer good publicity or bad publicity over the matter if they hem-haw about doing what needs to be done to make their customer happy.

Be honest and be fair but demand what you believe you deserve as a customer who has a business to run. If they blow you off, mention getting a lawyer involved and see if that gets any attention but it does sound to me like they are trying.

Sorry about your frustration. Did I mention I like vermeer?

 

[ASD]

Brotha
Get a list from the dealer of the other people that "rented / demoed / ran or owned" this chipper! With all the problems you are having and some of the parts being wrong on it I find it hard to belive that the dealer did not know that the chipper had some type of problems. An if they did not disclose this info to you you may have a case of fraud.

 

[thansen]

Brotha
Get a list from the dealer of the other people that "rented / demoed / ran or owned" this chipper! With all the problems you are having and some of the parts being wrong on it I find it hard to belive that the dealer did not know that the chipper had some type of problems. An if they did not disclose this info to you you may have a case of fraud.

ASD,
I don't know if the dealer will give me that info. or not. I know that is was demoed because when I bought it, it had 22 hours on it. And they did tell me that it had been demoed. The catapiller computer does show that the low oil pressure codes, over heating codes, and unknown errors were happening as early as machine hour 7, well before I even purchased it. It was sent to me sapposedly in work ready condition, which definately was not the case. I was in contact with the factory again todayand gave me a few options: 1)they are trying to come up with some numbers to trade it in on a new machine, but that would be 75 days out at least and I would have to pay the difference. Not sure what I would be given for the trade yet. 2) They offered to take it back to the factory and go over it, but I have to pay to ship it there. 3) Take it to the local wanna be bandit dealer to have them go over it and check it out 4) or possibly a fair trade on mine for a new 1590 that is at dealer down in Colorado. Like I mentioned I still don't have any numbers but at least they are talking.
I completely feel like I got screwed by the dealer sending this machine out to me the way they did. I waited for over 5 weeks for the machine after i made the down payment, 2 weeks they spent installing the winch and making sure the machine was work ready for me, and they kept finding problems but assured me they were getting them fixed and didnt want it to leave untill it was ready. So, I missed a bunch of empty trucks, then when they finally said it was ready, no trucks were available for another 3 weeks. Most of the stuff stemmed from the dealer, but there has been several other issues since. Im very frustrated to say the least.

 

[ASD]

ASD,
I don't know if the dealer will give me that info. or not. I know that is was demoed because when I bought it, it had 22 hours on it. And they did tell me that it had been demoed. The catapiller computer does show that the low oil pressure codes, over heating codes, and unknown errors were happening as early as machine hour 7, well before I even purchased it. It was sent to me sapposedly in work ready condition, which definately was not the case. I was in contact with the factory again todayand gave me a few options: 1)they are trying to come up with some numbers to trade it in on a new machine, but that would be 75 days out at least and I would have to pay the difference. Not sure what I would be given for the trade yet. 2) They offered to take it back to the factory and go over it, but I have to pay to ship it there. 3) Take it to the local wanna be bandit dealer to have them go over it and check it out 4) or possibly a fair trade on mine for a new 1590 that is at dealer down in Colorado. Like I mentioned I still don't have any numbers but at least they are talking.
I completely feel like I got screwed by the dealer sending this machine out to me the way they did. I waited for over 5 weeks for the machine after i made the down payment, 2 weeks they spent installing the winch and making sure the machine was work ready for me, and they kept finding problems but assured me they were getting them fixed and didnt want it to leave untill it was ready. So, I missed a bunch of empty trucks, then when they finally said it was ready, no trucks were available for another 3 weeks. Most of the stuff stemmed from the dealer, but there has been several other issues since. Im very frustrated to say the least.

The dealer has to give you that info. If they won't that would mean that they are hiding some thing!!! Like they sold it and it was returned because it was having problems. If they will not give you the info stop talking and get a attorney on it because if they new it had problems and did not disclose this info they are in deep do do!!!! As for the 1590 I would say no thanks as in the long run you will not be happy. I have owned a 1590 and they are great chippers but our 1890 will run circles around it ! So have them build you a "NEW" 1890 and when they deliver it they can pick up the defective one and do what ever they want with it. Also something to keep in mind is that if you keep the POS if you ever want to sell it you will have to tell the buyer about all the thing that went wrong with it or you could get sued for nondisclosure.

 

[thansen]

I will see if I can get that information. Thanks for the suggestion.