new owb!!
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Elim
ArboristSite Guru
BUMP!
I would be interested in hearing some of the experienced OWB users thoughts on these.
Thanks!
I would be interested in hearing some of the experienced OWB users thoughts on these.
Thanks!
tex
ArboristSite Operative
heiss heater
I posted a thread on this a few weeks ago. Didn't get much response. I've actually talked to the owner in person, and looked at his heaters. Not bad. If I were building one myself, I'd do a couple of things differently, but overall I like the idea. Its esspecially appealing for the price. Sure beats $6K to start for some of the others. I think you could actually get your money back out of a Heiss heater in short order vs. a 10 year payoff of a Central Boiler assuming the CB doesn't need leaks repaired like it seems they all do in a couple of seasons.
I posted a thread on this a few weeks ago. Didn't get much response. I've actually talked to the owner in person, and looked at his heaters. Not bad. If I were building one myself, I'd do a couple of things differently, but overall I like the idea. Its esspecially appealing for the price. Sure beats $6K to start for some of the others. I think you could actually get your money back out of a Heiss heater in short order vs. a 10 year payoff of a Central Boiler assuming the CB doesn't need leaks repaired like it seems they all do in a couple of seasons.
AIM
Addicted to ArboristSite
I haven't seen these before.
Their website is a bit short on pics and descriptions but I gathered that it is an all masonry/concrete unit. Right????
Their website is a bit short on pics and descriptions but I gathered that it is an all masonry/concrete unit. Right????
Elim
ArboristSite Guru
Thanks Tex. Care to share on what you see that could use improvement? Are they small things that a user could correct, or design/engineering problems?
AIM - Yes. I think it is concrete. One of the major differences other than material is it says the water tank is inside your house rather outside in the unit itself.
AIM - Yes. I think it is concrete. One of the major differences other than material is it says the water tank is inside your house rather outside in the unit itself.
tex
ArboristSite Operative
My conclusion...I would buy one today if I wasn't trying to recoup the cost of my corn burner.
Negatives:
The door is only 1/4 plate steel with barn style hardware hinges. I'd use a cast door preferably or at least thicker steel and heavier hinges accordingly. I also don't like his choice of concrete anchors for mounting the door hinges, although they likely won't be an issue. Also, there is no steel edging around the door opening. Probly not a problem? The aquastat is just a snap disc style that is glued onto the outlet pipe. I'd solder in a tee, and insatall a honeywell style aquastat for more reliable performance. I don't like how the combustion blower and pipes are directly below the door. There is a light duty plate to protect them, but it seems like it could get beat up after dropping a few rounds on it. With a little care that should hold up though. I question having the tank inside the house. I like the idea of any heat loss happening in my basement, not outside, however I'm not sure about it draining down if the power goes out. This could easily be remedied with a couple of check valves though. Venting in the basement in the case of a boil over could also be a concern if your not expecting it. Vent to a sump if you can. The copper pipe is 3/4". I'd use 1" for more capacity and better flow. There is no ash pan on the larger units. You need to let it burn down once a month to shovel it out. Not a concern for me, but may be for some. The door is plenty big to get a shovel into.
Possitives:
There is nothing to really wear, rust, corrode, etc. The door could easily be fixxed with a trip to the steel yard if need be. If a copper pipe develops a leak, it would be sealed in the concrete. The storage tank that comes with it is a plastic drum which will never leak. Aside from the circ pump and blower, there isn't much that could go bad. Those parts can be replaced easily and relatively economically. You get what you pay for in the fact that some of the components are lower quality/cost, but I feel that its worth it. I hear too many boilers that develope costly leaks after just a few seasons. Not to mention you need to use a traditional OWB for several years to recoup the cost. This one should start paying for itself in two. The owner is also a nice guy, and was very willing to answer questions and explain things. That is worth a bunch to me. He was more than willing to give me referances also. Oh, it serves as its own pad also, so you don't need to pour one for it to sit on. That saves some up-front costs.
If I didn't have the corn stove I'd buy one today and change the aquastat right away. I'd creatively engineer the storage tank in the basement and then just use it. Anything that came along after that I'd repair and re-engineer as I saw fit. I like the concept, and may just try to build my own before winter 2011 with some of the improvements I mentioned above.
Thats my two cents.
Negatives:
The door is only 1/4 plate steel with barn style hardware hinges. I'd use a cast door preferably or at least thicker steel and heavier hinges accordingly. I also don't like his choice of concrete anchors for mounting the door hinges, although they likely won't be an issue. Also, there is no steel edging around the door opening. Probly not a problem? The aquastat is just a snap disc style that is glued onto the outlet pipe. I'd solder in a tee, and insatall a honeywell style aquastat for more reliable performance. I don't like how the combustion blower and pipes are directly below the door. There is a light duty plate to protect them, but it seems like it could get beat up after dropping a few rounds on it. With a little care that should hold up though. I question having the tank inside the house. I like the idea of any heat loss happening in my basement, not outside, however I'm not sure about it draining down if the power goes out. This could easily be remedied with a couple of check valves though. Venting in the basement in the case of a boil over could also be a concern if your not expecting it. Vent to a sump if you can. The copper pipe is 3/4". I'd use 1" for more capacity and better flow. There is no ash pan on the larger units. You need to let it burn down once a month to shovel it out. Not a concern for me, but may be for some. The door is plenty big to get a shovel into.
Possitives:
There is nothing to really wear, rust, corrode, etc. The door could easily be fixxed with a trip to the steel yard if need be. If a copper pipe develops a leak, it would be sealed in the concrete. The storage tank that comes with it is a plastic drum which will never leak. Aside from the circ pump and blower, there isn't much that could go bad. Those parts can be replaced easily and relatively economically. You get what you pay for in the fact that some of the components are lower quality/cost, but I feel that its worth it. I hear too many boilers that develope costly leaks after just a few seasons. Not to mention you need to use a traditional OWB for several years to recoup the cost. This one should start paying for itself in two. The owner is also a nice guy, and was very willing to answer questions and explain things. That is worth a bunch to me. He was more than willing to give me referances also. Oh, it serves as its own pad also, so you don't need to pour one for it to sit on. That saves some up-front costs.
If I didn't have the corn stove I'd buy one today and change the aquastat right away. I'd creatively engineer the storage tank in the basement and then just use it. Anything that came along after that I'd repair and re-engineer as I saw fit. I like the concept, and may just try to build my own before winter 2011 with some of the improvements I mentioned above.
Thats my two cents.
So the way I understand this setup is , there is copper tubing embedded in the concrete form before the concrete is poured in? What keeps the heat from going all the way through the concrete and you loosing the heat?
tex
ArboristSite Operative
Yes, the copper pipe is framed up, then the concrete poured around it. Same idea as floor heat only in reverse.
I asked the same question about heat loss. My understanding is that you'll never have snow build up on top of the unit, but due to the ceramic effect of the concrete on the wood burning, you can use a smaller fire for the same amout of heat. That equals less wood at the end of the season. The builder says he just basically smolders the fire all day, and can heat with only one loading per day.
I asked the same question about heat loss. My understanding is that you'll never have snow build up on top of the unit, but due to the ceramic effect of the concrete on the wood burning, you can use a smaller fire for the same amout of heat. That equals less wood at the end of the season. The builder says he just basically smolders the fire all day, and can heat with only one loading per day.
tex
ArboristSite Operative
Approx 200 linear feet I was told for the medium sized one. Don't know where it all is though (sides, back, etc.) The heater holds about 55 gallons of water in it I was told. I don't think that math adds up though.
AIM
Addicted to ArboristSite
This has my interest....
mtfallsmikey
Addicted to ArboristSite
AIM
Addicted to ArboristSite
Not if there is no fly ash in the mix.
mtfallsmikey
Addicted to ArboristSite
tex
ArboristSite Operative
Never thought of that. How long will it take before you may have a problem? If it takes 10+ years before the copper is junk, and only two years to pay off...Hmm. Might still add up for the right person. If a guy was going to build one for himself, what about pex tube? That is what they use for floor heat.
What would you use for protection on copper?
gwiley
Addicted to ArboristSite
Double check your payoff figures. You WILL keep your house warmer once you install an OWB. I was shocked when I did the math for our place:
3700sf, very high ceilings = lots of heated air that we never feel.
Were spending $5,000/year on propane and keeping house at 68degF.
WIth OWB we spend $0 on propane and keep the house at 74degF (or more).
My payback period was only 2 years on the Central Boiler CL5036 in spite of spending about $10,000 on the unit and related property improvements to accomodate it (not counting many of the toys that I ended up getting to support the wood habit).
3700sf, very high ceilings = lots of heated air that we never feel.
Were spending $5,000/year on propane and keeping house at 68degF.
WIth OWB we spend $0 on propane and keep the house at 74degF (or more).
My payback period was only 2 years on the Central Boiler CL5036 in spite of spending about $10,000 on the unit and related property improvements to accomodate it (not counting many of the toys that I ended up getting to support the wood habit).
tex
ArboristSite Operative
regardless of the payoff time (which will be different for everyone) I'm just a little nervouse with the boilers. I've heard too much about them needing expensive welds repaired within a few years. The heiss heater seems like a good alternative...maybe. Regardless of the design, I'm looking for whatever will last the longest with the least up-front cost.
gwiley
Addicted to ArboristSite
That is a good point. There are a number of factors to consider when choosing the type of wood heat. If you want to keep the mess outdoors then it is really a question of which technology OWB. Given a large enough heating space even the cost of expensive repairs is not likely to spoil the payback period significantly.
The smaller the heated space the more sense a wood stove makes - in fact I would argue that if money is the ONLY issue then a wood stove wins every time. The OWB involves a higher capital investment, higher operating cost and higher fuel cost (lower efficiency). The reasons in favor of OWBs are virtually all related to functionality/features rather than economics (at least when compared to a wood stove). Comparing an OWB with non-wood based heat the OWB still wins handily on the economics alone.
mtfallsmikey
Addicted to ArboristSite
Along with the premature steel/weld failures from OWB users, there are just as many who have been using them for 15-20 yrs. It comes down to how you fire them, proper use of the mfr. recommended water treatment chemicals, and the type of water you have. And, anyone can wind up with a lemon, regardless....
woodguy105
ArboristSite Guru
+1 That's what I'm thinking....
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