New to the milling game

[Judson]

Just wanted to say that all of the info that is given here has been a huge help in getting me started in milling with a CSM. I had a chance to get out yesterday and mill some heavy timber beams from a fir tree that came down this winter, but I came away with a few questions..

1) What does everyone use for guide rails? I was using a 2x6 that is screwed to the top of the log, but even with my best efforts to keep it straight I was still getting a little runout, like 1/4" over a 10 foot beam. Doeas anyone ue the granberg slabbing rails system? It looks like at may be a great way to be able to do really long beams.

2) I picked up an echo cs8000 last fall on the cheap to see if I would like the whole CSM thing. It has a 28" bar on it and is mounted in a 36" mill. It is just barely big enough, bar wise, to mill a 21" or so tree. What kind of production increase could I expect if I stepped up to a 395xp or a MS660? It would only be 10-15 cc's more, but I would guess the HP would increase by 1-2 hp.

3) Do most people mill their logs in the woods and shelp all their gear in, and then shelp it all out again + timbers when they are finished, or should I get a winch to put on my trailer or something like a lewis winch so that there is less carring stuff in and out plus I could drag all of the logs out insted of having to carry the timbers out. Of course If I drag all the logs out then I could do all the milling at home which seems to be a popular option here.

4) What is the easiest way to square a cant with a CSM? I was using a framing square and the 2x6 mentioned above which worked fairly well, but I was just wondering if there was something I missed to make it go even easier.

Hopefully I can get back out next saturday and finish up the tree that I started yesterday. I don't have any pics from this time as my wife has the camera in another state.

 

[Railomatic]

Questions and some answers

Just wanted to say that all of the info that is given here has been a huge help in getting me started in milling with a CSM. I had a chance to get out yesterday and mill some heavy timber beams from a fir tree that came down this winter, but I came away with a few questions..

1) What does everyone use for guide rails? I was using a 2x6 that is screwed to the top of the log, but even with my best efforts to keep it straight I was still getting a little runout, like 1/4" over a 10 foot beam. Doeas anyone ue the granberg slabbing rails system? It looks like at may be a great way to be able to do really long beams.

Answer, The best and cheapest way to do your first is to use a good quality aluminum ladder, just ratchet strap it to the tree at either end, removing and moving them along as you progress along the log.

2) I picked up an echo cs8000 last fall on the cheap to see if I wohe best and cheapest way to do your first cut isuld like the whole CSM thing. It has a 28" bar on it and is mounted in a 36" mill. It is just barely big enough, bar wise, to mill a 21" or so tree. What kind of production increase could I expect if I stepped up to a 395xp or a MS660? It would only be 10-15 cc's more, but I would guess the HP would increase by 1-2 hp.

Answer, I'm not sure what bhp the echo has, but the Stihl MS 660 is the best all round saw for using on a CSM, with the Dolmar/Makita an equal.

3) Do most people mill their logs in the woods and shelp all their gear in, and then shelp it all out again + timbers when they are finished, or should I get a winch to put on my trailer or something like a lewis winch so that there is less carring stuff in and out plus I could drag all of the logs out insted of having to carry the timbers out. Of course If I drag all the logs out then I could do all the milling at home which seems to be a popular option here.

4) What is the easiest way to square a cant with a CSM? I was using a framing square and the 2x6 mentioned above which worked fairly well, but I was just wondering if there was something I missed to make it go even easier.

Answer, Buy a Mini Mill to bolt right onto your saw,this will help you to do the edges, or a Rail-O-Matic. which is a swing mill for a standard chainsaw.

Hopefully I can get back out next saturday and finish up the tree that I started yesterday. I don't have any pics from this time as my wife has the camera in another state.

Abc

 

[oldsaw]

Your 2x6 is too narrow, which gives you two problems, one it is prone to sagging, and two, it is too easy to wobble the saw. I've had good luck with a 2x8, wanted a 2x10, but there weren't any straight ones when I was at the lumber yard.

My next run is with 1/2 of an aluminum extension ladder. Light and stiff. I've seen recent pictures of guys using a short 2x8 or so on each end to screw into the ends of the logs to rest the ladder on. Attach the ladder and you are set.

CaseyForrest uses a set-up made of UniStrut which is very cool. He'll be along shortly, and with this prodding will probably post the picture again.

Mark

 

[CaseyForrest]

Using an extenison ladder is a great idea. Sometimes a bit awkward if you are making those long cuts, but gets the job done just the same.

Here is what I use, only cost me $25 total, and is fully adjustable from 10' down....

I get 22" of cut using a 28" bar in a GB 36" mill. I think my 660 with 22" of cut is all my saw wants most of the time. HOWEVER, I have yet to cut anything but hardwoods. You mentioned Fir, I would think a 660 sized saw wouldnt have any issues with a 36" bar in softwoods.

I mill in my driveway most of the time. I set a couple 8x8's on the trailer than extend over the side and roll the log all the way over so I can stand on the ground and mill off my trailer. Woodshop has a very ingenious way of getting logs onto a set of horses, hell be along to give you a link to a thread.

Yes it is possible to make a cant using a CSM, look here..I did it the same way, framing square and tape measure.

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=36470

 

[aggiewoodbutchr]

Unistrut works great for spans up to about 4'. For anything longer than that I shore it up intermediately with scrap 1x or 2x boards and 1/4" lag screws.

For the ends I use 1x8x24 hardwood boards attached to the cant with 1/4" lags.

I've thought about building guide frame but I like the simplicity of this system for now.

 

[dustytools]

View attachment 49139

View attachment 49140 Here are a couple of pictures of a set of rails that I made from aluminum storefront window frames. Allthread between them for spacing and Granberg rail brackets on both ends for attaching to the log. 10 ft long. Sorry for the poor quality pics.

 

[stonykill]

not much to add here. I mill both in the woods, and in a dedicated area. Depends on if I can get the log out of where it is and to my milling area. I use a 2 x 10 to make my 1st cut. I used to square the log just how you do, its a pita to get it square that way. I picked up a mini mill for edging and am very happy with that.
All I can add is roll the log as much as possible. You will get better quality lumber that way. Todays trees are not the trees of yesteryear. While the 36 inch old growth pine wouldn't hardly warp, todays will warp way too much to use for furniture. The more you roll the log, the smaller it gets in diameter, and the easier the milling gets. Not only that, but the quality of the boards increases. You will end up with many boards that are all heartwood, therefore much more stable. Did I mention it also makes the milling easier as the diameter constantly gets smaller?

 

[Judson]

I have a mini mill type thing that rides on a 2x6. I used that to square the cant once last fall and I felt that it left a much poorer cut quality. Maybe it just takes some practice. Also i didn't have ripping chain in the saw that the mini mill was used with, would that make a big difference in the quality of the cut?
Aggie, I also notice that in the pictures you are using guide rails on top of a slab that has already been cut once. Is that so that you have something for saw lead in and lead out?

 

[stonykill]

I have a mini mill type thing that rides on a 2x6. I used that to square the cant once last fall and I felt that it left a much poorer cut quality. Maybe it just takes some practice. Also i didn't have ripping chain in the saw that the mini mill was used with, would that make a big difference in the quality of the cut?
Aggie, I also notice that in the pictures you are using guide rails on top of a slab that has already been cut once. Is that so that you have something for saw lead in and lead out?

I had one of those cheap e bay ones. Worthless. I bought a granberg mini mill. Now that works. Ripping chain mills much smoother than regular chain.

 

[aquan8tor]

I have a mini mill type thing that rides on a 2x6. I used that to square the cant once last fall and I felt that it left a much poorer cut quality. Maybe it just takes some practice. Also i didn't have ripping chain in the saw that the mini mill was used with, would that make a big difference in the quality of the cut?
Aggie, I also notice that in the pictures you are using guide rails on top of a slab that has already been cut once. Is that so that you have something for saw lead in and lead out?

The ripping chain makes a huge difference in using the mini mill, but also, I've had less than wonderful success with my mini-mill either. Apparently they changed the design and made the outer guide piece somewhat smaller ( the part that keeps the saw perpendicular to the 2x6). I found plans for a modification when doing a google search on quartersawing and chainsaw. Bill's wood creations, mini-mill modifications something rather. I'm at work, so I don't have my links saved here. Anyhow, the plans involve using a welder, and cutting up some angle iron. I have the pieces of angle iron, just was waiting to get someone to weld everything up for me. Kinda lost motivation on it, but I'm going to have some practice soon with my red oak logs. I'm taking my time with the big ones and am going to try to get as much truly quartersawn lumber out of them. I don't mind too much about the waste on the huge ones. I'll flat saw the smaller logs with my ripsaw b/c it isn't worth it to quarter them, but the 30 inchers are getting sawn right. I don't have a huge need for oak, I just didn't want to see the wood go to waste.

Getting off track there. Point is, congrats on being new to milling. I'm new myself, but I've learned a lot from folks on this site!! Keep visiting and asking questions. Chances are, some of the folks around here (including me) have made mistakes that you can avoid and learn from.

Welcome to the forum.


Nate

 

[aggiewoodbutchr]

Aggie, I also notice that in the pictures you are using guide rails on top of a slab that has already been cut once. Is that so that you have something for saw lead in and lead out?

That's one reason. It sure helps when I'm milling by myself.

Another reason is to keep each cut flat and to prevent any wander in the previous cut to transfer to the next.

It also seems to slide a bit easier.

 

[TedChristiansen]

Aggie,

I must say that your new signature picture with the two bookmatched slabs and saw arsenal is quite impressive!

Regards,

Ted