Notch Configurations

[B.Secord]

Thought I would ask the guys that deal in large trees a question in regard to which notch is best for removing medium to large trees? I have always used the open-face notch, as I believe it to be more forgiving to error in height of back-cut. Or maybe a person should use different notches for different types of wood.
Sorry if this has been a thread in the past, however, I was unable to locte it in any of the other realms. Us prairie dogs don't have a lot of loggers to ask, so any input would be appreciated.

THX Brent

 

[Ryan Willock]

It all depends. You are ahead of the game by using the open face though. If I have one that I know is going to be hard to wedge then I use the humbolt as I feel it makes wedging easier.

 

[B.Secord]

THX Ryan,

The reason I asked, was when I was reading on this site about HINGE Forensics, I got to thinking what may be the best.....AND I came to the conclusion that the conventional & humbolt may distort or impede the trunk prior to hitting the ground. In most cases we can't afford the trunk hitting the ground and bouncing (to the sides).
The removals that we do, are mostly beside dwellings, with a minimal margin for error. I guess if it works ----then it doesn't need tinkering...Would still like some more input as to the use of other notches!!!!

THX Brent

 

[Ryan Willock]

If you are used to the open face then using the humbolt would take some REAL getting used to.

 

[SasquatchMan]

Hey guys - dummy newbie feller here... I understand and utilize the open-face notch when felling lodgepole pine for firewood (and I'm really happy with the directional capabilities of that type of cut).

What's a Humbolt?

 

[treeman82]

Humbolt is the reverse of a conventional notch. Instead of making your angle cut facing down to the ground, you would be making it so that your angle cut is facing up towards the sky.

 

[rmihalek]

I recall reading that sawmills wanted flat bottoms on the logs, so the humboldt notch was used by loggers instead of an open-faced (two angled cuts) or the conventional notch. It sounds logical...

 

[MasterBlaster]

I like to use a snipe in a conventional face when I want the butt to stay close to the stump, or when topping to prevent a catapult effect.

 

[John Ellison]

I think that as a general rule the Humbolt is used mainly on the West coast. The timber is "swell butted", so with a Humbolt the waste is taken out of the stump. Also in truly large timber it will minimize breakage by letting the butt slip to the ground first. If you did make the cuts at ground level the swell would have to be removed from the log anyway.
Most of time other areas use a conventional face to keep a lower stump and recover the most of the log.
IMHO either notch performs the same until the face closes.

John

 

[B.Secord]

Thanks for the insite guys, I could never figure out what the uses of the different notches were,MUCH appreciated, as I am still on a vertical learning curve!!!!

Brent: Fine line between tough and stupid---- oops!!!

 

[rmihalek]

Dear MasterBlaster,

Can you describe what a "snipe" is in a notch?

 

[MasterBlaster]

Rmihaylek, a snipe is basically a conventional cut with a Humbolt added to it. It can be partial, or full. Only a full snipe would be really a Humbolt. A partial snipe is just that, partial. It doesn't extend completely back to meet the front of the hinge.

I think I asplained that right!

 

[wiley_p]

Also on steep ground a humboldt is nice.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

As Butch states a snipe is a bottom wedge removed that does not meet the apex of the face.

ths leaves a small ledge for the face to close on and separate the hing, but then it can slide down the snipe, as explained in the Humbold description.

For any non logging felling, a wide open face is usually the best, because the holding wood will remain intact the longest.

Sometimes, as in poping off a top, we want the hing to separate "early" so we use a narrow face. Using a Humbolt in this case is said to reduce the "push back" of the top coming off the spar.

 

[rmihalek]

I attempted to draw a Humbolt notch with a snipe based on what I gathered from your replies. Is the drawing clear? Is it correct?

 

[Lumberjack]

Yes, that is a snipe. The snipe is the ledge, you can combine it with any face to acheive a certain end. But for directional falling, you want a completely open face, without any snipe, so the faces stay open, and the hindge intact.

Edit: I was a blithering idiot when i posted. I was mistaken. That is a pic of a step dutchman, not a snipe. Sorry.

 

[tophopper]

Originally posted by Lumberjack
Yes, that is a snipe. The snipe is the ledge, you can combine it with any face to acheive a certain end. But for directional falling, you want a completely open face, without any snipe, so the faces stay open, and the hindge intact.

You are mistaken Carl, that is not a snipe, it is a breached hinge.
Isnt all felling directional felling? An open faced hinge would be used when you want the face to stay open longer or all the way down.

A basic notch- (humbolt or convential) can also be used for directional felling they just close sooner thus causing the hinge to break.

Depending on the tree, site and many circumstances, a different type of face cut can be employed as needed. If the tree has lean towards your drop zone, a basic notch will usually work because once enough holding wood(back cut) is removed gravity will take it course. The height of this notch will determine how soon the face will close and the hingewood will break.

A short notch= face closing sooner hinge breaking sooner
A tall notch = face closing later hinge breaking later
Open face= depending on the lean of tree may never fully close and hinge may stay intact.

An open face notch is good for trees which you pull out of a back lean because you want the tree to be well past center before your face closes up and hinge breaks.

Did that make any sense or did I repeat what everyone else has already said

I must admit Carl your post worried me a bit, because it is clear that you dont have a full understanding of how a face cut & hinge actually function, but yet you pass advice to others as if you do know, which can be very detrimental.

 

[John Ellison]

I agree Tophopper. From the looks of the drawing, I would call that a full face dutchman. Not what you want. Wish I could make drawings like that.

John

 

[MasterBlaster]

 

[Lumberjack]

I guess am confused on the snipe, so I am rereading my info on it (gotta find it first) I read about it in one of Butch's books a while ago, so forgive me.

When I said directional felling, I was thinking about the most simple, longest lasting control. Such as a balanced or tree that is being pulled over. The longer the hinge stays intact (or if it even breaks), the more certainly you can place a spar, or a tree.

Let me look up that stuff, and post my corections.