Oiler problems Stihl MS-180C

[Fishnuts2]

To start things off, I have searched all the threads here for the lack of oil on the bar of my MS-180C and tried all the ideas. I've replaced the pump, supply line, suction screen, flushed the tank, ran the clutch drum backwards with compressed air, blown air back through the oil passage in the saw body, and replaced the duckbill vent in the tank. Also, filled the tank with thin oil such as ATF. The ONLY way it will pump is with the cap off, or to cut some of the duckbill short, but then oil runs all over when the saw is on it's side.

My dealer friend says these saws don't run much oil through them, but I can't get past a 1/2 tank of fuel before the chain is too dry to run. Hold it on it's side and loosen the cap and then cut for another period of time is the routine.

I'm thinking of enlarging the hole slightly that holds the duckbill vent, thinking that perhaps it is choking the valve too much to let air in the tank.

My Echo CS310 goes through about 8 oz. bar oil to a tank of fuel and this Stihl can only put about 1 oz. through per tank, and this is with much goading on my part.

It's a great little saw otherwise, and I know that it can be made to function properly, it's just got me stumped.

Fire away, and Thanks in advance!

 

[NewToStihl]

Well, here is everything I can think of in terms of suggestions, questions, and comments:

1. Are you sure the new pump is installed in the correct orientation?
2. Are you sure the new pump is installed to the correct depth?
3. Is the plastic worm gear in good condition with full threads and the inner bushing flush with both sides?
4. Are you certain the carrier arm on the worm gear isn't worn so that it doesn't stay engaged with the notch in the drum?
5. Are you sure you're installing the drum correctly so that the carrier arm is positioned in the notch?
6. Are you sure you don't have the oil filter in the 'lower' part of the tank which often causes the line to kink reducing or eliminating oil flow?
7. Have you verified that it oils with the bar removed?
8. Is the hole in the bar in the correct location and unobstructed?
9. Cutting the duckbill short will eliminate it's ability to prevent leakage rendering it useless.
10. If you can see that the top hole of the duckbill is round when installed in the tank it shouldn't be pinched.
11. Your buddy is right that the pump isn't high output, but it's also sized for short bars. I've run a ton of different 170/180 saws and every one of them put out a sufficient amount of oil to keep an appropriate length bar lubed.

That's all I have for now...

 

[pro94lt]

What length bar? I had one years ago it wouldn't oil a 14 inch

 

[Fishnuts2]

Well, here is everything I can think of in terms of suggestions, questions, and comments:

1. Are you sure the new pump is installed in the correct orientation?
2. Are you sure the new pump is installed to the correct depth?
3. Is the plastic worm gear in good condition with full threads and the inner bushing flush with both sides?
4. Are you certain the carrier arm on the worm gear isn't worn so that it doesn't stay engaged with the notch in the drum?
5. Are you sure you're installing the drum correctly so that the carrier arm is positioned in the notch?
6. Are you sure you don't have the oil filter in the 'lower' part of the tank which often causes the line to kink reducing or eliminating oil flow?
7. Have you verified that it oils with the bar removed?
8. Is the hole in the bar in the correct location and unobstructed?
9. Cutting the duckbill short will eliminate it's ability to prevent leakage rendering it useless.
10. If you can see that the top hole of the duckbill is round when installed in the tank it shouldn't be pinched.
11. Your buddy is right that the pump isn't high output, but it's also sized for short bars. I've run a ton of different 170/180 saws and every one of them put out a sufficient amount of oil to keep an appropriate length bar lubed.

That's all I have for now...

 

[Fishnuts2]

Thanks for your reply. The answer is yes to every point you noted. It will pump a quite a bit of oil with or without the bar. All I have to do is loosen or remove the cap and hold it sideways while running the motor fast enough to run the clutch drum. It is a lack of venting it seems. Maybe I should make room for more vents in the tank?

 

[NewToStihl]

Just to make sure, does it make a difference if you orient the saw on its side & run it without loosening/removing the cap?

 

[Fishnuts2]

Just to make sure, does it make a difference if you orient the saw on its side & run it without loosening/removing the cap?

 

[Fishnuts2]

It makes no difference on the orientation of the saw. I keep it on its side so as not to spill oil out of the fill opening.

 

[NewToStihl]

It makes no difference on the orientation of the saw. I keep it on its side so as not to spill oil out of the fill opening.

Yeah, I realized that was the reason for positioning it on it's side, but I never like to discount a possibility - thought just maybe the orientation was the key as opposed to the omitted cap. Assumptions are a killer when trying to diagnose an issue. Before installing the new duckbill did you happen to have squeezed the flat end to make sure it has the slit opening?

I guess you could always try to get your hands on a larger duckbill valve and then drill the hole to match?

 

[Fishnuts2]

Yeah, I realized that was the reason for positioning it on it's side, but I never like to discount a possibility - thought just maybe the orientation was the key as opposed to the omitted cap. Assumptions are a killer when trying to diagnose an issue. Before installing the new duckbill did you happen to have squeezed the flat end to make sure it has the slit opening?

I guess you could always try to get your hands on a larger duckbill valve and then drill the hole to match?

I certainly did check the new duckbill because the original only opened a small bit. So, when I discovered that I thought that finally I had it figured out. But the new valve didn't make much difference. I'm going to take a needlenose or hemostat and tug the valve into the tank from the inside. Maybe I don't have it seated all the way. I'll try that tonight after work and post the result.

I forgot to mention that it has the 14" factory bar and it's hole lines up properly.

 

[farmer steve]

bad cap?? o ring?? only things i didn't see mentioned.

 

[nwmo_aggie]

Mine never oiled good. Only solution I had was to run winter grade oil year round.

 

[Fishnuts2]

Mine never oiled good. Only solution I had was to run winter grade oil year round.

My dealer friend says the same thing about them and recommends winter grade in the small Stihls too. That's why I have been trying ATF in it.

My BIL has two 018s and I have burnt a lot of fuel through them over the last 10 years and they oil the bar properly.
Actually, this is why the original owner sold it to me. I thought that I could figure something as simple as that out. Been wrong so far! It is very clean and has low hours, but runs a dry chain unless you open the oil tank cap and give it some air every few minutes. Or, I can run it with the duckbill clipped version and the oil pumps like it should but then oil runs out of the vent like you would expect.

Basically, I think it is a case of *Poor Design.

 

[NewToStihl]

I certainly did check the new duckbill because the original only opened a small bit. So, when I discovered that I thought that finally I had it figured out. But the new valve didn't make much difference. I'm going to take a needlenose or hemostat and tug the valve into the tank from the inside. Maybe I don't have it seated all the way. I'll try that tonight after work and post the result.

I forgot to mention that it has the 14" factory bar and it's hole lines up properly.

It might be worth opening up the hole that houses the duckbill if you need to use a tool to pull it through. With every one I've worked on I was always able to just push the duckbill through the hole without having to pull from the inside.

 

[Fishnuts2]

It might be worth opening up the hole that houses the duckbill if you need to use a tool to pull it through. With every one I've worked on I was always able to just push the duckbill through the hole without having to pull from the inside.

Thanks for the tip. I will try enlarging the hole tonight and if that doesn't work I'm going to add another vent to the tank. I bought a couple more duckbill vents.

 

[Fishnuts2]

Well, I got it apart and looked closely at the vent hole in the tank. It seemed ok and then I tugged the duckbill down from inside the tank. I then drilled another vent hole beside the original and pulled another duckbill into it. I have a picture but don't know how to load it here from my phone.

Anyway, I ran it without the bar and oil appeared quickly. After putting the bar and chain back on I made about 10 cuts with it and it was oiling a lot more than before. I'll be content with this I guess.

Thanks to all for your efforts and ideas!

 

[joshthelawnmowerguy]

To start things off, I have searched all the threads here for the lack of oil on the bar of my MS-180C and tried all the ideas. I've replaced the pump, supply line, suction screen, flushed the tank, ran the clutch drum backwards with compressed air, blown air back through the oil passage in the saw body, and replaced the duckbill vent in the tank. Also, filled the tank with thin oil such as ATF. The ONLY way it will pump is with the cap off, or to cut some of the duckbill short, but then oil runs all over when the saw is on it's side.

My dealer friend says these saws don't run much oil through them, but I can't get past a 1/2 tank of fuel before the chain is too dry to run. Hold it on it's side and loosen the cap and then cut for another period of time is the routine.

I'm thinking of enlarging the hole slightly that holds the duckbill vent, thinking that perhaps it is choking the valve too much to let air in the tank.

My Echo CS310 goes through about 8 oz. bar oil to a tank of fuel and this Stihl can only put about 1 oz. through per tank, and this is with much goading on my part.

It's a great little saw otherwise, and I know that it can be made to function properly, it's just got me stumped.

Fire away, and Thanks in advance!

So on any chainsaw, you should always be running fuel to bar oil at 1:1 so when you refuel , your also adding bar oil every time

 

[pdqdl]

Not really true. I seldom have a saw that uses as much oil as gasoline. You might be thinking "tank of gas for a tank of oil", but the oil reservoir seldom holds as much liquid as the fuel tank.

My 3120 Husqvarna is about the biggest oil-hog in my fleet of saws, and even with the extra oil button depressed, it doesn't use anywhere close to fuel to a bar-oil ratio of 1:1.

Sometimes chains run a bit dry due to the punky nature of the wood being cut. If it happens all the time, then you definitely have a problem. Comparisons of the oil to fuel consumption are a bit irrelevant. Just figure out why the chain is running dry, and don't bother with comparing it to the fuel consumption.

 

[stihltech]

So on any chainsaw, you should always be running fuel to bar oil at 1:1 so when you refuel , your also adding bar oil every time

Most new saws run approximately 1/2 tank oil to 1 tank fuel since the 90s.