Old Growth Red Maple Too Deep

[PinkFloydEffect]

The foam will cause moisture to get trapped inside of the cavity, the bacteria that causes rot will thrive in a sealed environment, more likely to progress at a faster rate then if left open to air.

I agree I don't see any slime flux either. The crack should be looked at by a qualified arborist though. It looks to have rot in the space, it should be probed to find out how much is rotten.

Don't do any major pruning unless they are hazardous limbs- your mature tree shouldn't need much servicing any more, dead wood, broken limbs, perhaps some selective branches that are growing too close to your house- but other than that don't touch it.

Ciao

Thanks! The hole with the water coming out dosent seem to dead pretty stiff wood right to the crack crevice.

As far as pruning goes... eh. It's not too close to any house however I do think it needs some structural work. Its oddly shaped and has a lot of snapped tips everywhere with no close nodes to them so the snapped tips need to be cut back and there's some dead wood that should be removed (also so I can see how far it travels from that dead spot up high) I was also talking with few people about going a bonsai style with the canopy and bringing it back so there is less weight to support and it will throw out new shooters to fill in the canopy more. However all this needs to be taken into careful consideration as you state about it being fully if not over mature. I think the thinned canopy can also be from the roof flares being buried so deeply and a tree service from the Merrimack Valley should be looking at them come spring time.

Keep your eyes out I'm posting a video tonight (link will be on here) of the trees update 4 month's after the root flare unburial and the buds are looking more vigorous already!

 

[outonalimbts]

you are board savy-

I have read many of the postings that are still up that you have posted or answered- You ask good questions, I think any question is good as it assists in learning.

Visit http://www.treesaregood.com read everything on the site- There are excellent articles here it is the ISA consumer website.

If your tree needs major structural work, then you should consider removal- I would NEVER suggest you bonsai a mature tree! Bonsai is a very careful observation and cultivation of a tree from early on- it is a practice that will be very costly over time.

Remove the dead wood this is good, remove stubs back to the nodes or at least close to scaffold branches for good healing.

Shoot the video for the company that does the work anyway, don't base it on a dollar amount, base it on doing the minimum for the maximum effect.

This is my advice.

 

[PinkFloydEffect]

I have read many of the postings that are still up that you have posted or answered- You ask good questions, I think any question is good as it assists in learning.

Visit http://www.treesaregood.com read everything on the site- There are excellent articles here it is the ISA consumer website.

If your tree needs major structural work, then you should consider removal- I would NEVER suggest you bonsai a mature tree! Bonsai is a very careful observation and cultivation of a tree from early on- it is a practice that will be very costly over time.

Remove the dead wood this is good, remove stubs back to the nodes or at least close to scaffold branches for good healing.

Shoot the video for the company that does the work anyway, don't base it on a dollar amount, base it on doing the minimum for the maximum effect.

This is my advice.

I'll check out the link tomorrow I'm editing this video for you guys at the moment.

Uh oh I think I made a new AS buddie I ask a lot of questions its a hit or miss thing it either pisses people off or encourages them to answer (which makes me ask more)

Nope, won't do it I don't care if one day it comes down to me and this massive trunk/stump with shoots coming off it, it stays I understand how the art of bonsai works I have a bonsai garden, well sort of. I was just using it as an example without saying topping.

I'm definitely guna do that company I called them today, and shoot a video of them when they do work on MY tree(s) as well (of course). I dont understand though the last part of that sentence about the dollar amount figures.

 

[PinkFloydEffect]

Video Update

Heres a video checkup/update 4 month's after the root work!
opcorn:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVqlDDl4k8E
^Select 1080p^




​

 

[outonalimbts]

I looked at the video- You need to find out how much Rot is inside...

You zoomed in a couple of times on that cavity I spoke of - You need to probe it, at home depot they have those stakes their fiberglass, about 3' long, they are reflective at the top for your driveway markers.
Mark the fiberglass stake every 6" and carefully push it inside of the cavity. From the video it looks as if this tree is in the neighborhood of 23" DBH diameter breast height, You should have a minimum of 2/3rd's good wood inside of the tree, otherwise it may be a critical risk, If this tree is only a shell, it also may be a hazard.

Once again, this tree was topped, I hate it when they are topped- removes longevity from the tree- Rot is most often severe.

Your tree is decaying- first figure out if it has any good wood left, then if it's not too extensive you may want to not only cable it together (included bark at the union) but also brace the union as well.

Based solely on what I have seen in the video, I would suggest removal. AND if your were my Client- I do my best to talk you into removing it, to protect yourself and your neighbors properties.

At Minute Marker 2:40 it appears to have concrete inside of the cavity- Bad news, concrete retains moisture and bacteria thrive in this environment, could be extensive rot/decay in that area!

At minute marker 4:01-4:03, looks like Hypoxylon Canker, tar like substance on surface of the bark.

In the very beginning of the video, there is sign of seepage from the union, also not a great sign, often associated with decay.

Good luck

 

[PinkFloydEffect]

You zoomed in a couple of times on that cavity I spoke of - You need to probe it, at home depot they have those stakes their fiberglass, about 3' long, they are reflective at the top for your driveway markers.
Mark the fiberglass stake every 6" and carefully push it inside of the cavity. From the video it looks as if this tree is in the neighborhood of 23" DBH diameter breast height, You should have a minimum of 2/3rd's good wood inside of the tree, otherwise it may be a critical risk, If this tree is only a shell, it also may be a hazard.

Once again, this tree was topped, I hate it when they are topped- removes longevity from the tree- Rot is most often severe.

Your tree is decaying- first figure out if it has any good wood left, then if it's not too extensive you may want to not only cable it together (included bark at the union) but also brace the union as well.

Based solely on what I have seen in the video, I would suggest removal. AND if your were my Client- I do my best to talk you into removing it, to protect yourself and your neighbors properties.

At Minute Marker 2:40 it appears to have concrete inside of the cavity- Bad news, concrete retains moisture and bacteria thrive in this environment, could be extensive rot/decay in that area!

At minute marker 4:01-4:03, looks like Hypoxylon Canker, tar like substance on surface of the bark.

In the very beginning of the video, there is sign of seepage from the union, also not a great sign, often associated with decay.

Good luck

Can you give me a time frame on the cavity please?

Its about 14 1/2 feet around I know that (@ 4.5 feet)

I did not know it was topped it had to have been a longgg time ago. I would LOVE to have the thing all fixed up with cables and braces. The included bark I was aware of, I'm stubborn I won't take him down. I know there's allot of decay in allot of areas I need to do more cleaning come spring.

There's no concrete in this tree! 3:30-4:00 shows that same area in close up.

Canker? is that bad and also what is on the side(black circle)? Or is that the seepage from the union you were talking about?

There's a dead limb almost dead at least with allot of missing branches on it because of a buried chain if I remove it that might allow the trunk and rest of the tree to fight and build a better cell wall against decay.

THANKS FOR YOUR VIDEO ANALYSIS! I'll be doing another on my BIGGER red maple.

 

[treeseer]

Good advice on probing and support possibilities, but...

You should have a minimum of 2/3rd's good wood inside of the tree, otherwise it may be a critical risk, If this tree is only a shell, it also may be a hazard.

What makes shell thickness the criterion here? How many stem failures have you seen, compared to branch or root failures?

Based solely on what I have seen in the video, I would suggest removal. AND if your were my Client- I do my best to talk you into removing it, to protect yourself and your neighbors properties.
Good luck

Who assigned you to suggest and persuade, Dr. Treevorkian? You're going way "out on a limb". Giving unsolicited advice has a great danger--learning its exact value to the receiver (which in this case is nothing).

Making the world safe through deforestation--brilliant strategy!

Talking them into removing it based on such little info--that's just selling removal work through fearmongering, bottom-of-the-barrel arboriculture.

 

[outonalimbts]

Dr. Treevorkian- Thats good, but your off the mark on this reply-

Good advice on probing and support possibilities, but...

What makes shell thickness the criterion here? How many stem failures have you seen, compared to branch or root failures?Who assigned you to suggest and persuade, Dr. Treevorkian? You're going way "out on a limb". Giving unsolicited advice has a great danger--learning its exact value to the receiver (which in this case is nothing).

Making the world safe through deforestation--brilliant strategy!

Talking them into removing it based on such little info--that's just selling removal work through fearmongering, bottom-of-the-barrel arboriculture.

If you re-read what my posting has to say, you may realize what I said- I based that recommendation SOLELY upon that poorly shot video- You can espouse any frustration you want and think that I am fear mongering, but if you look at the evidence, and you are aware of the consequences, as well as the failure rate of Maple trees in the Northeast, then perhaps you may have missed the rest of the thread, PFE has ventured to say he will be doing extensive work on this tree- Hard pruning, bonsai, removal of major branches, etc.

The bottom line, is if there is extensive rot, the tree needs cabling, perhaps even bracing- PRAY tell me- what true worth is this tree next to his home?

It's too bad you don't live closer, you could MILK thousands of dollars from him to retain this tree, because this is what its going to cost, Pink floyd could simply remove and replace this tree spending far less money- and having a safer tree next to his home!

Dr. Treevorkian- My arse, if there is a tree that has potential, hasn't been already devalued to a point of liability (the video shows this tree was topped) then sure, let' s spend some money and give it the very best care possible. On the other hand, If you spend many thousands of dollars restoring a Chevrolet Vega, what do you have in the end but an expensive piece of :censored: !

From your posting it is evident that you have skipped reading the entire series of threads.- I can see you are the type of tree guy that allows your customers to spend thousands of dollars to retain a tree that needs to come down to protect property and lives. Which is better pouring good money after bad, or cutting your losses and removing a tree that is a risk for failure?

I bet you that you would take the tree down if it were on your property close to your home- because you have seen what a rotten tree will do to someones home.

Bottom line, I don't care what this guy does with his tree- I have been an active participant in this thread and the previous thread, PFE has been PM'ing me and we have been conversing over a period of days- you are butting in with your Unsolicited comments, But hey I posted it here knowing that it would be controversial, so thank you for your unsolicited comments-


P.s. If PFE wants to waste money in this way- then fine, waste away- have a tree that isn't worth anything, and waste the ground its planted in, why grow another tree if there is already a poor specimen growing there, this maple is a total loss- sure its big, but in 50 years or so, there could be another big tree in its place-

 

[PinkFloydEffect]

Good advice on probing and support possibilities, but...

What makes shell thickness the criterion here? How many stem failures have you seen, compared to branch or root failures?Who assigned you to suggest and persuade, Dr. Treevorkian? You're going way "out on a limb". Giving unsolicited advice has a great danger--learning its exact value to the receiver (which in this case is nothing).

Making the world safe through deforestation--brilliant strategy!

Talking them into removing it based on such little info--that's just selling removal work through fearmongering, bottom-of-the-barrel arboriculture.

You have obviously followed my posts since the beginning.

If you re-read what my posting has to say, you may realize what I said- I based that recommendation SOLELY upon that poorly shot video- You can espouse any frustration you want and think that I am fear mongering, but if you look at the evidence, and you are aware of the consequences, as well as the failure rate of Maple trees in the Northeast, then perhaps you may have missed the rest of the thread, PFE has ventured to say he will be doing extensive work on this tree- Hard pruning, bonsai, removal of major branches, etc.

The bottom line, is if there is extensive rot, the tree needs cabling, perhaps even bracing- PRAY tell me- what true worth is this tree next to his home?

What true worth?! You don't understand...

It's too bad you don't live closer, you could MILK thousands of dollars from him to retain this tree, because this is what its going to cost, Pink floyd could simply remove and replace this tree spending far less money- and having a safer tree next to his home!

Actually no he couldn't because I'm not payign that much I have some trade offs with local tree company's for semi-pro commercial shoots for their business's. Also I WANT to do as much of the work myself as possible I want to become an Arborist so its about finding someone that will HELP ME for $ not do it FOR ME.

Dr. Treevorkian- My arse, if there is a tree that has potential, hasn't been already devalued to a point of liability (the video shows this tree was topped) then sure, let' s spend some money and give it the very best care possible. On the other hand, If you spend many thousands of dollars restoring a Chevrolet Vega, what do you have in the end but an expensive piece of :censored: !

Dood... this is a RED Maple not exactly the strain of Maple tree you see reaching a maturity level like this, its older than my town itself! Its like your first car... sure it was a piece of #### but do you own a single "sentimental" item of your history?

From your posting it is evident that you have skipped reading the entire series of threads.- I can see you are the type of tree guy that allows your customers to spend thousands of dollars to retain a tree that needs to come down to protect property and lives. Which is better pouring good money after bad, or cutting your losses and removing a tree that is a risk for failure?

I bet you that you would take the tree down if it were on your property close to your home- because you have seen what a rotten tree will do to someones home.

Bottom line, I don't care what this guy does with his tree- I have been an active participant in this thread and the previous thread, PFE has been PM'ing me and we have been conversing over a period of days- you are butting in with your Unsolicited comments, But hey I posted it here knowing that it would be controversial, so thank you for your unsolicited comments-


P.s. If PFE wants to waste money in this way- then fine, waste away- have a tree that isn't worth anything, and waste the ground its planted in, why grow another tree if there is already a poor specimen growing there, this maple is a total loss- sure its big, but in 50 years or so, there could be another big tree in its place-

OR... in 50 years this tree could be an outstanding landmark that is recognized by many for its unique trunk. My grandfather worked on cars under it for a good 50 years and I dont WANT a tree here I just like THIS tree.

 

[PinkFloydEffect]

Update

So all the snow melted today it was warm and rainy (right after a snow storm) which really produced allot of water very quickly so everything soaked.

Here's the tree 4 month's ago:
http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af101/NateTeebo/Maple 1/A.jpg

Now Here's the tree today with all the water, the side I dug out farther then the others is literally holding water.... Doesn't look so good and can't be good for the tree look its turning reddish/orange! BADDD!
http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af101/NateTeebo/Maple 1/B.jpg

I probed the tree in a few areas with a metal rod I bought at a lumber yard it was the diameter of probably a little less than a BB. The water leakage spot (because we have already ruled out slim fluxing) would not budge its "crack" is solid edges. (old picture)
http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af101/NateTeebo/Maple 1/C.jpg

The larger hole toward its base... the interior walls of the back of the hole were solid enough to not puncture. So was most the yellowish wood you would have to try pretty hard to get the rod an inch into it. However I was able to sink a rod going UP torward the outside of the tree about 10"
http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af101/NateTeebo/Maple 1/D.png

The smaller opening above it to the right that had the fungi on it a while back with more of that soft yellow wood... could get the rod too far into the majority of it as below without trying too hard. However there were a few spots that sunk easily about 6". Torward the middle going left sort of like below, close to the outside of the tree. The other spot was to the top right at an angle that follows the inside of the outer edge of the tree (like all the others) but it pointed directly toward a major limb sinking 18"! (not directly toward the heart wood)
http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af101/NateTeebo/Maple 1/E.png

The last spot I probed was an area below the following to the right a tad. It appears to may be starting to form an opening in the same way the previous two did with the callus wounds forming slowly. I could not sink a rod farther than 2-3" into it in any direction.
http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af101/NateTeebo/Maple 1/F.png

The tree is definitely decaying as all old old trees do. But its also showing signs of strong and vigorous growth along with I think some good compartmentalization that's open to air flow with enough good wood being grown around it. I have nothing but hope for him, so unique!

 

[treeseer]

The tree is definitely decaying as all old old trees do. But its also showing signs of strong and vigorous growth along with I think some good compartmentalization that's open to air flow with enough good wood being grown around it.

The leading authority on decay in the world, Schwarze, described this battle as a trial of strength between the tree and the pathogen(s). An objective risk assessment looks at both.

"devalued to a point of liability ... a tree that needs to come down to protect property and lives." without a systematic process of judgment, shows a lack of objectivity, the defensive style of risk assessment that is common here in the US, symbolized by the attached.

 

[PinkFloydEffect]

The leading authority on decay in the world, Schwarze, described this battle as a trial of strength between the tree and the pathogen(s). An objective risk assessment looks at both.

"devalued to a point of liability ... a tree that needs to come down to protect property and lives." without a systematic process of judgment, shows a lack of objectivity, the defensive style of risk assessment that is common here in the US, symbolized by the attached.

Lol. Well, I'm guna have to get a few people in here to take a look at it I'm more concerned on keeping my other larger red maple but for some reason I had it stuck in my head if I unburied the flares, and pruned the tree it would put some energy into stalking up its trunk around its decayed areas with less stress on it.

Its not possible for it to completely push out its heart wood and form a strong shell enough to hold foliage?

 

[PinkFloydEffect]

So since the start of my new tree a few hundred feet away, I've realized how bad of a shape this one is in compared top the new one. Also this one is like, halfway on the very close to our family neighbors yard that could any day die and sell the house and have a new owner say rip it down and rip it down now. So since its not as big, or healthy and I don't have say over the property like my largest one I am going to take a new approach on this one. I am going to do more pruning on this one to see what happens and use it as a control test tree just as I did with the roots. So I'm not going to try to keep as much of the tree as possible I am going to just try to keep it alive rather than its shape and height. This way it won't get cut down because of safety reasons. In other words I am going to hack it up and see ho it reacts at its age maybe some of you will learn something and I will too. Hopefully it becomes a very compact bonsia/pollard style tree with a HUGE trunk. I mean compared to my new one it really is a total piece of s##t.

:dunno:

Does anyone know what can be done about dings in root flares? Can anything be rubbed on them to seal them? I scraped up this one bad and it is going to taker forever to heal.

 

[PinkFloydEffect]

Buds

Compared to my older taller larger healthier tree, the buds on my smaller topped tree are more vigorous. Could this be because of last summers trunk unburial?

Other larger trees best bus site

 

[PinkFloydEffect]

Back at it again

Stupid tree... eats up all my time. But anyway I'm back at it again so here we go:

This stumps finally coming out, I'll bet anyone $100 that there are tons of girdles under it on my root flare!

After all my root work so far, something just isn't right here... idc what anyone says :chatter:

And I was right! That chunk of asphalt digs right into the side of the tree where the decay is constricting it from its flaring!

Bogas, this craps coming out ASAP ...very gently that is
​

 

[PinkFloydEffect]

Taking you now live to ground zero where I have started gathering materials to build my great wall of china. Just an in ground retaining wall to hold back the dirt:

This is definitely another problem, right under the rotting:

This is where there was a large bracket fungi growing last summer that I removed:

Well its making it's way back again:

Also coming back from a NEW spot on the tree!

And some green slime growing here:

​

 

[PinkFloydEffect]

Just thought I would share these, none of them were photoshoped. Kinda neat though.​

​

 

[PinkFloydEffect]

Update

Before someone says it haha NO I obviously did not move gramps truck in fact I parked it here on purpose just so someone would tell me to move it

It's back and THRIVING supposedly my dad tells me there has always that he can remember been a mushroom on this tree so it's an annual thing definitely. This year it has chosen a different hole besides the one it was on last year this time it pushed right through actually has a piece of bark stuck to it that it pulled off the tree itself. I really hope this is 100% beneficial that is that the tree is strong enough to create a good cell wall and that the trees outside diameter is increasing at a steady rate that the fungi is hollowing at correct?

I kind of think of my old growths as a car I am rebuilding or an animal I am training. I'm preparing them to be grown out to compete some day as old growths for my area. So if this fungi is beneficial than I consider it a show piece for my tree seeing how that a living fungi is a key feature to look for on an "ideal old growth tree"

Not only are the previous pictures a completely new spot but there's ANOTHER new spot god damnnnn this fungi is ripping holes everywhere I hope all this air helps the circumference to increase

Maybe.....Dryad's Saddle??​

 

[vaclimber]

My advice is do NOT fill the cavity.

I agree. research (Alex Shigo & company) has proven that once accepted practice to be harmful(at best ineffective). Trees compartmentalize decay(if healthy) and block it with walls of its own. Perhaps reduce weight (minimal) if safety or failure is an issue. Otherwise provide a wide mulch bed and let it be.

 

[treeseer]

yes it might be inonotus. Perhaps crown reduction is in this tree's future. if a typical risk entrepreneur saw it, it would be drilled and killed in a heartbeat. i tend to pop off the conks and bury them in the back 40 but that is just me.