Outdoor wood stoves
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Gopher
ArboristSite Operative
Hey, looks good! I don't have the capacity to put it all together like you have. Nice work.
Iv been mulling over getting an out door wood burner. I will be living in the UP of MI where the temps are cold and there is a ton of snow. The house is around 2000 sq ft and I would also like to run my hottub and water heater off of it. I like the heatmor the best because of the stainless construction and the fire brick liner, but Im open to other brands if one is superior. My question is this: How much wood will I be going through with the heatmore setup, What will be the real life burn time, what am I looking at cost wise completly installed(heard that there are a lot of hidden costs), any brands better than heatmor? BTW the house has a excisting gas water heater and a gas forced air furnace. bw
jokers
Addicted to ArboristSite
Hi BW, I`ll try to help you out with hidden costs. The closer you put the unit to your house the better off you will be. Both in installed costs and the amount of wood you burn. the question of how much wood you burn is very subjective since not all 2000 sq ft homes are the same, with the same climatic exposures. You will burn more in the Heatmor or any other boiler than you would burn in a woodstove in the house. Heat loss between the boiler and the house is significant. I live on the southeast corner of Lake Ontario where it gets and stays pretty cold, although not as cold as your area, and in all but the coldest times of winter you can see a significant depression in the snow over the pipes to the house. My pipes are buried at 4'. For add ons, you will need a plate heat exchanger for your hot water, ~ $125, a zone valve, and a strap on temp controller, ~$60, and a water to air exchanger, ~ $225 with zone valve for the exhaust plenum on your existing furnace. You will also need the w/a exchanger installed in the plenum. You need a fan start relay installed in your furnace so that it operates without the burner and a seperate T-stat for the Heatmor. You normally run a smaller diameter pipe from the boiler with a forced air setup to keep water velocity higher, 1" vs 1 1/4", so costs here are somewhat cheaper. I think I posted here my preffered method of pipe insulation which seems to work well. Let me know if you have any questions. Russ
Gopher
ArboristSite Operative
When I put my Heatmor in, I made sure I had plenty of valves at key locations. I isolated the pump with a valve on each side to enable simple removal should there have been any problems (there wasn't). We (my brother-in-law, uncle and myself) decided that the next unit we do (if it's forced air) we will change the system set up to enable air conditioning use in the summer, while continuing to heat the domestic hot water use.
Just a couple of points to consider.
Another point; I didn't hook up my dryer. The wife of the dealer I bought my stove from had hers hooked up for one year, and siad it just wasn't worth the time it took to dry clothes versus the efficiency of say a gas dryer.
I'd be interested in hearing other arguments.
Gopher
Just a couple of points to consider.
Another point; I didn't hook up my dryer. The wife of the dealer I bought my stove from had hers hooked up for one year, and siad it just wasn't worth the time it took to dry clothes versus the efficiency of say a gas dryer.
I'd be interested in hearing other arguments.
Gopher
Has anyone rigged there outside wood furnace to burn waste oil? I saw a post some where on the net where a guy did this. It was gravity fed and used the thermostat from the stove to trigger a valve that allowed oil to flow into the combustion box. Seems like a good idea, especially with all the oil my diesel goes through.
Absolutely. There are manufacturers that have this as on option on their stoves. I believe Taylor is one of them. I would do it myself with mine but I don't have access to enough oil to make it worth it. If you got oil, I say go for it. BTU;s are BTU's.
Steve
Steve
eyolf
Addicted to ArboristSite
I've enjoyed this thread, but it has me scared...How come my classic still doesn't leak after 11 years? I do clean it out good 2 or 3 times a year.
I put my hot-water pipes about 3' down, and have no problem with heat loss. Thermometer readings indicate 2-3 degrees from stove to house (80 feet), but I insulated really well. 3" thick styrofoam beadboard made into a box, glued together as tube was layed.
House is leaky old farmhouse, main floor and upstairs about 2000 ft, plus basement. 12 cords a year, more if I have to burn lots of popple.
I put my hot-water pipes about 3' down, and have no problem with heat loss. Thermometer readings indicate 2-3 degrees from stove to house (80 feet), but I insulated really well. 3" thick styrofoam beadboard made into a box, glued together as tube was layed.
House is leaky old farmhouse, main floor and upstairs about 2000 ft, plus basement. 12 cords a year, more if I have to burn lots of popple.
Who said anything about leaks? The oil isn't for corrosion resistance, it's for heat. The ones I remember, called them Dual Fuel stoves and part of the reasoning is if you run out of wood for whatever reason, the oil or propane etc.... took over. So you have a Classic? ( Central Boiler) Natural Draft or Fan?? The Classic's I know of around here are natural draft ( elect. damper)and they smoke pretty heavy if their chimneys are not fairly long.
I know a few that have rusted out, but if you do the maintainance, ( like you do,)they last a long time. I sure hope so "cause mine (homemade) is mild steel and I don't want to have to make another on anytime soon. Do you oil yours in the off season??
I know a few that have rusted out, but if you do the maintainance, ( like you do,)they last a long time. I sure hope so "cause mine (homemade) is mild steel and I don't want to have to make another on anytime soon. Do you oil yours in the off season??
django, You have any thoughts on how I could make a heatmore burn waste oil. I thought about using a roof mounted tank which wood feed into the firebox via a 1/8"steel line. I would like to have the thermostat for the stove trigger the oil feed via a switch of some sort. The problem is finding a electric switch that will work with oil and one that is not saftey hazard. The oil storage tank would be metal off course to prevent fire.
Hey bwalker, Are you going to use a "drip" into the firebox, or atomize the oil? I assume a drip. You don't need any explosion proof switchgear for waste oil, it is hard enough to get it to burn on purpose let alone by a switch spark. Piece of cake.
Steve
Steve
I was just going to let it drip. I dont see a need to atomise the oil as it will only be to suplement the wood. What are your thoughts? How would one build a device to atomise the waste oil? Seems to me you would need something to apply pressure to it like a small compressor of some sort.
Crofter
Addicted to ArboristSite
BWALKER We burned used oil to help heat a shop. Gravity feed has a few problems. The drip pipe cokes up and plugs . The oil changes temp. and vicosity so is hard to regulate. It often has guck in it so you have to filter or your needle valve is a problem. If the fire loses its flame, the oil can gssify then go of with quite a whoosh. You have to drip right onto burning wood or else onto a stainless hubcap or such to burn decently or it will just soak into the ashes. You always wind up spilling oil. Thats the bad parts the good is its free, The easiest way to regulate it thoug is have a variable pump, you don't need any amout of pressure. I think you could easily fashion one from a saw oiler or the oil injection pump from a snow machine. I have been head first inside quite a few of thes boilers doing emergency repairs when they corrode out. Mostly from the fire side, not the water side. Some of the first ones were only 3/16 mild steel and gave probs in less than five years. If I were building one I would use at least 409 alloy steel for the firebox. It is not a true stainless but much better than mild steel. I believe it is what most snow machine and bike mufflers are out of. It sure gives the back yard welders the fits when they try to braze it because of its 12% Crome content but it will arc weld nicely with 9018 Low Hydrogen rod. I have an acquaintance that heats a green house with a quick and dirty hhomemade setup using 2 Bulldozer radiators and harware store fans. A couple of winters ago he burned a complete barn that had gone down with the wind. It ain't fussy about what it eats.
Frank
Frank
If you want to atomize, ( I wouldnt) Your best bet is to go to a retailer and check out the commercial oil burners. The ones I am familiar with use compressed air for pressure, Makes me wonder what that does to your energy costs, as Comp. air is expensive. Sounds like Crofter has some good advice to me.
Basic diaphram type pumps are a dime a dozen to power a drip.
You could also fashion a systolic pump out of a cheap ( ebay) gear motor...... Crofter, I made my outdoor stove ( pics elswhere in this thread) out of 7ga. 1018 hot rolled mild steel for a couple of reasons: It's cheap. It rolls and breaks well, With proper maintainance, mild steel stoves last years and years. ( see eyolf's post) I wasn't sure my design would work well. ( it seems to) The stainless I would use ( 409 is BARELY stainless) is 304 or better yet, 316, The problm with the higher grade stainless steels is heat transfer is quite a bit poorer than carbon steels.But you can use substantially thinner material, so it's probably a wash. It's also expensive especially when you are experimenting.
Basic diaphram type pumps are a dime a dozen to power a drip.
You could also fashion a systolic pump out of a cheap ( ebay) gear motor...... Crofter, I made my outdoor stove ( pics elswhere in this thread) out of 7ga. 1018 hot rolled mild steel for a couple of reasons: It's cheap. It rolls and breaks well, With proper maintainance, mild steel stoves last years and years. ( see eyolf's post) I wasn't sure my design would work well. ( it seems to) The stainless I would use ( 409 is BARELY stainless) is 304 or better yet, 316, The problm with the higher grade stainless steels is heat transfer is quite a bit poorer than carbon steels.But you can use substantially thinner material, so it's probably a wash. It's also expensive especially when you are experimenting.
kam
ArboristSite Operative
Get a used oil burner from friends or neighbors who are switching their oil furnace to gas,or check with a local furnace installer and offer to take the burner from their garbage pile. These burners have a 175 psi pump,forced combustion air,flame detector,and ignition. Get the control box and you will also have over temperature sensors and safety shut off.You will probably have to change the nozzle to accomodate the thicker oil. I've not made a furnace but I use the pump to spray crankcase oil on my car
(175 psi) for rustproofing
The epa would love you,LOL.
atomize
There is a danger in telling you what will work to atomize oil because drip is the way to go with your boiler. The Bosch fuel injection pumps I installed to burn used oil are still working without a breakdown since 1968. The danger is if you don't know what you are doing these pumps can be adjusted from 0 to 6,000 psi. 6,000psi is way more than you need. I built a 5 burner unit that burned 28 gallons per hour run off one Bosch pump (six cylinder) it melted the concrete floor out from under the boiler and the fire brick slid (melted) into the concrete to a depth of three feet before the boiler began to tip over and had to be shut down. Rockwell makes a burner that will do the same but it costs about 14k. Go with the drip method, I don't think you have a need to heat 17 acres of greenhouse or burn 2,000 gallons of oil a day. The boiler that heated my house was built in 1929 and taken out of service in 1992. 1/2" plate steel, 40 horsepower but run at low pressure, hot water not steam. The biggest unit I built held 6,000+ gallons.
There is a danger in telling you what will work to atomize oil because drip is the way to go with your boiler. The Bosch fuel injection pumps I installed to burn used oil are still working without a breakdown since 1968. The danger is if you don't know what you are doing these pumps can be adjusted from 0 to 6,000 psi. 6,000psi is way more than you need. I built a 5 burner unit that burned 28 gallons per hour run off one Bosch pump (six cylinder) it melted the concrete floor out from under the boiler and the fire brick slid (melted) into the concrete to a depth of three feet before the boiler began to tip over and had to be shut down. Rockwell makes a burner that will do the same but it costs about 14k. Go with the drip method, I don't think you have a need to heat 17 acres of greenhouse or burn 2,000 gallons of oil a day. The boiler that heated my house was built in 1929 and taken out of service in 1992. 1/2" plate steel, 40 horsepower but run at low pressure, hot water not steam. The biggest unit I built held 6,000+ gallons.
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Yikes. That sounds like a waste oil powered blast furnace. I dont want smelt metal I just want to heat my house,lol.
I am likely going to use the drip method, but the injecting it via fuel oil burning furnace pump sounds like a option as well. My friend is in the heating and cooling business so I am sure he could get me one. The oriface size to achieve the proper spray pattern should pretty easy to figure out.
oil spray pattern
It is not that easy with a heavier oil, the home heating furnaces are designed to used no#2 oil and don't have the pressure required to get motor oil to spray properly without a lot of smoke from an incomplete burn. They will burn a 75%/25% mix of no#2 oil to motor oil but are still a little smokey. The motor oil retains water and drip is the best method for your type of boiler. The guy wanted to see what it could do when his other two boilers went down. I told him it would melt the floor and it did. The fire was hot enough to vaporize steel, white hot, it hurt the eyes to look at it without a filter lens.You need special firebrick and firebox design to do that. The noise sounded like a jet engine but we did get 400*F over theortically achievable tempeture by pressurizing the air feed. It was working fine but you could not run it around the clock without the floor getting a chance to cool down. If he had paid to put in two more layers of firebrick it would have been okay but at $7 per brick he passed on the extra layers of brick. He bought the extra bricks when we redid the boiler though, he never ran it that hot again. There is another trick, preheat the oil before you run it through the injector system, industrial use only. Anyway it is not as easy as it sounds. Go with the drip method.
It is not that easy with a heavier oil, the home heating furnaces are designed to used no#2 oil and don't have the pressure required to get motor oil to spray properly without a lot of smoke from an incomplete burn. They will burn a 75%/25% mix of no#2 oil to motor oil but are still a little smokey. The motor oil retains water and drip is the best method for your type of boiler. The guy wanted to see what it could do when his other two boilers went down. I told him it would melt the floor and it did. The fire was hot enough to vaporize steel, white hot, it hurt the eyes to look at it without a filter lens.You need special firebrick and firebox design to do that. The noise sounded like a jet engine but we did get 400*F over theortically achievable tempeture by pressurizing the air feed. It was working fine but you could not run it around the clock without the floor getting a chance to cool down. If he had paid to put in two more layers of firebrick it would have been okay but at $7 per brick he passed on the extra layers of brick. He bought the extra bricks when we redid the boiler though, he never ran it that hot again. There is another trick, preheat the oil before you run it through the injector system, industrial use only. Anyway it is not as easy as it sounds. Go with the drip method.
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