Outhacked

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fmueller

ArboristSite Operative
Joined
Dec 2, 2003
Messages
406
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Location
Iowa
I'm just a weekend tree guy. I'm probably what ya'll consider a hack. But I usually charge 200.00 for a straightforward takedown and I've been outhacked by some guy that does them for 100.00. Geez, it's not even worth it anymore. Outhacked by a hack. :cry:
 
No way dude, you are still a hack :p

Just when you thought you were the lowest bottom feeder, someone is lower.

Heck, sounds like yer moving on up....
 
Slowly but surely. But this is almost sub hack. This could be a new category. :blob2:
 
I've heard of it but have'nt been directly affected by it yet. How bout pruning a tree for the wood? We have a guy here that advertises topping too. I'll have to take a pic of the ad an post it sometime. (It's not me, I'm an ISA certified hack.)
 
What I find bizzare is even in a Phildelphia suburb where the average adjusted gross income is 335K/yr I still get asked if we take down trees in exchange for wood.
 
Alan, It must be that "Just a stupid tree guy" that you had tatooed on your forehead. LOL. People are amazing. I think that the reason people continue to ask is because there are nuts who are doing it. I lost a technical removal (the whole top had to be pieced out) to a guy who was doing it for the wood once. I just shook my head and walked away.
 
Yesterday, I bid $430 to remove a 18" DBH birch in a front yard - about 45 feet tall. The lady, over the phone from her work, says to do it if I can do it for $400 even. Not too drastic a request, so I said okay. We agreed on a day.

She calls our home 30 minutes later saying someone in a club - supposedly licensed, would do it for a lot less. And I don't think the guy saw it.

When I got the message, I called to at least ask her to make sure he is licensed so the bidding in on closer footing.

AND - I told her our policy. No more free bids. We don't even promise any free estimates. Usually they are free. But not repeats. That breaks the chain of bargain shoppers. Even if a regular hires someone on an occassion, the break in the cycle means they pay for an estimate.

Our prices are about 3/4 of what's the highest, and our quality is among the best. So I figure - I want people that are looking for someone they want to do long term business with. Not price shoppers.

I got real ticked at a 10 year customer that went with another tree guy at $1450. to remove 3 trees. The customer said he liked my work, but that my $1840 bid was "extreme" compared to the other.

He said he'd call in the winter to still have me do his fruit trees and roses - SUPRISE, WAKE UP BUDDY...can't wait till he calls.

Each winter for 10 years, I've done his 5 apple trees and 2 pear trees for about $115 (that's right - 115) Never raised the rate. And I do a 150' row of large rose bushes that's 3 rows of plants in width, planted solid for $60.

Two years ago, due to tight access, I bought a small trailer just to do his yard in the winter so I could turn around.

Just wanted you guys to see the picture.

He should have paid the "extreme" difference.

I'm dropping customers like this like flies.

To get back in the loop, they must get an estimate and prepay for it - check in the mail.
 
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Wow, I might not be too far off the mark for pricing. The tree I got beat on was about the same size. I just take them down and cut into firewood length and leave the logs ,clean up the mess, chip what brush I can with my little chipper and move on. You do that plus haul everything away, plus you have insurance. I understand why you guys charge what you do, you have to in order to make a living. But the quality customers will pay for quality rates. Still, a tough way to make a buck for all the B.S. that goes on. I spoze it the same in any biz to one degree or another. (Why do I feel I'm about to get reamed?) :Eye:
 
I looked into insurance and it would cost me 1200/yr just for myself. At this point I just do it on the weekends or when I feel like it so I'd be just working for the ins. company. I don't do anything where its even remotely possible where I could cause damage and I make sure they understand I have no ins..
Right now I not doing anybody elses trees until I get my own done. That how it all started anyway.
 
You do realize that many insurance companies don't hit us up for full payment at once.

You may be able to get a smaller premium, or, even the same premium with a few hundred dollars for first payment.
 
I understand that but still for as little as I do at this point I'd still be working for the insurance company. Its a catch 22. Need money for equipment to make money to pay insurance but still need to go to my other job take care of the fam etc., etc.,. Not trying to make excuses. Its just my situation I created for myself for better or worse. Sometimes I just want to quit my current job and dive into the tree biz and try to do it right but I need the security right now with a son recently moved back home and two other kids in college and three dogs and three cats and two birds and a wife that wants me around adn not gone every weekend doing trees etc.etc.etc., such is life. :)
 
I forgot, you are in Iowa, not Oregon.

In Oregon, the fine for doing tree work without insurance would overshadow the cost of insurance coverage.
 
We don't have that problem here. People are more concerned about corn, beans, hogs, and cattle here. Trees are considered more of a nuisance out in the country so they really don't care about proper pruning techniques or if your insured or not, unless its next to their house. Since you have mucho more trees out there I can see how it would be an issue. Plus the state can charge liscencing fees to boost their revenues. If it aint one thing its another.
 
I pay about $1200 a year and it covers two of us. Round here, "are you insured?" is one of the first questions customers ask. it stinks not being able to say yes. we wouldn't have attempted most of our highest paying jobs if we were uninsured. When you compare it to the rent businesses pay for retail space, $1200 a year seems small. But, i'm not in iowa
 
I lost a couple of jobs like that, but most of them I come across say they don't care. In fact I'll be the one to turn it down and say no cause the job is risky enough where if I screw something up I'd want insurance to cover me arse. Keep in mind I just do weekends cause I have another job. Even then the wifey is gettin tired of me being gone all the time so that'll slow down too.
 
OK heres my 2 cents, Ive got a small business also. Started doing this because I heat with wood and I got tired of being called a "vulture". Around these parts there seems to be enough work,however, for the new guys(me) the only trees that I seem to be able to get are the ones that are difficult with risk that really isnt worth the bother for others. Id say 80% of my trims and take downs have been over buildings. Not complaining its been alot of good experiance learing how to rig and climb safe. If you are going to be taking down or trimming trees, and I dont think it matters if its in the middle of a field with no possibility of hitting anything(yea right), I cant imagine not having insurance. Would you drive your car to town without insurance because you cant afford it. I dont think so. If your taking down trees for others, Insurance, sadddle,then rope. If you think insurance is to expensive, then dont start working for others.
 
O.K., I've decided on a New Years resolution. Between all you wonderful guys on this site and my wife wanting me home on the weekends I've decided not to do any more trees for other people other than immediate family (including myself) because of the insurance issue. I've been a bad boy but my lust for chainsaws and climbing blinded me to common sense. I confess. I'm actually being serious here. No more. I'll just have to find another way to make extra cash on the side. :cry: I'll just hang out on the off topic forum. Ya know Skwerl you were right. Part timers don't last long anyway. I'm proof. Here I went and got ISA certified, Forestry degree, etc., and now it seems all for naught. At least I can justify the cost of the gear for the cost of doing my own trees. Hell, when I'm done with all my own trees I should put it up for sale. I'll quit blubbering now.
A sincere Happy Holidays to ya'all and thanks!
Frank
 
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