OWB wood usage & square footage

[046]

all true... what you state below...

many factors like location, sq ft of home, insulation, temp required, etc, etc.

but... read thru feedback in this thread... the common number that comes up is.... 12 cords.... this is regardless of sq ft, location, etc.

why is this? :monkey:

by the way... the only reason for my being in this thread is to give another point of view. 4 cords to me is a lot of work... 9-12 cords per season?

based on feedback in other threads, indoor wood burners on AS from all different location/size homes burn 3-5 cords range.

I average 9 per year with my WoodMaster 4400....3600 sq. ft., domestic water, forced air system, and infloor in the basement.

That is in extreme Northern Minnesota where the average temp in the winter is between really cold and unbearable. How cold does OK get?? I say you are comparing Apples to Oranges on this post.:rocker:

 

[Tracker83]

Vital stats, in bullet point format:
- Stove: Pacific Western (Innotech) Model 2
- Location: Michigan (Grand Rapids area)
- Home: 1800 sq. ft. ranch (3 years old)
- Heating requirements: Maintaining house at 73F via forced air coil, heating domestic HW, maintaining 900 sq. ft. garage at 55F via hydronic unit heater.
- PEX details: standard 1" non-barrier pex, wraped in 3/8" thick polyethylene pipe insulation, then placed in a 4" drain tile pipe.
- Stove distance from home: 80 ft.
- Wood usage: 9 cord using good properly seasoned hardwood. Up to 12 cord if using green wood or low-quality softwood.

 

[dimanager]

Like I said before, I have a very good set up to cut wood. Most of it is done by myself, I would say 80-90 percent of it is by myself. Now I don't consider myself some kind of huge workhorse, I'm actually kind of lazy sometimes. But I don't find it very hard to get all of my wood cut. I'm sure this is because I don't have haul the wood any where. Maybe my calculations are wrong. I have 8 pallets, each are 8x10 and stacked between 4 and 5 feet high, and I use a little less than half of the wood each year. Now if my calculations are correct, please correct me if I am wrong, my pallets hold about 24 cords.

Sam

 

[Tracker83]

4 cords to me is a lot of work... 9-12 cords per season?

Really? Maybe us OWB guys are just more efficient with our firewood processing? I can do 4 cord in 1 week by myself (A full long Saturday and 2-3 evenings after work). 10 cords is not an unbearable amount of work with an easily accessable supply of wood, a couple good saws, a good hydraulic splitter, an adequate method of transportation, and a couple strong buddies.

based on feedback in other threads, indoor wood burners on AS from all different location/size homes burn 3-5 cords range.

Keep in mind that indoor wood burners are not using wood to heat their hot water and are not using that same stove to heat an auxilliary structure. If I were to take my water heater and garage off-line then I would be able to improve on the 9 cords by a lot.

 

[046]

again... was not trying in any way to put down OWB folks... just trying to give another perspective.

look again at numbers posted... for some reason OWB's seem to burn 9-12 cords regardless of location, sq ft, etc. again... wonder why that is so????

I'm set up fairly well for firewood... loads of pro saws..HD trailer with duel 7k lb axles with a cummins to pull it, 35ton speeco... all the free wood I want... etc.

Really? Maybe us OWB guys are just more efficient with our firewood processing? I can do 4 cord in 1 week by myself (A full long Saturday and 2-3 evenings after work). 10 cords is not an unbearable amount of work with an easily accessable supply of wood, a couple good saws, a good hydraulic splitter, an adequate method of transportation, and a couple strong buddies.

Keep in mind that indoor wood burners are not using wood to heat their hot water and are not using that same stove to heat an auxilliary structure. If I were to take my water heater and garage off-line then I would be able to improve on the 9 cords by a lot.

 

[ms310]

time saver

If you guys would, please list what you used for the underground pex. I've got a woodmaster 4400 coming the end of the month, and I used the wrapped insulated pex in 4" drain tile ~ basically the 'time saver' pex. I have good drainage, so hopefully it is gonna be good enough...

Thanks!

Chris

I used this product when i put mine in, my understanding is that it is not oxygen barriered pex... So if your stove is not stainless you may not want to use it! you will want to look into it and see if i am correct in what i remember. \
Anyway i am running a heatmor 200 and love it i am heating my domestic hot water, all year long and my home is 2400 square foot on a heated basement total 4800 square feet the modular home was built in 2004 and put the heatmor in last year in oct. I used about 21 face cord or 7 real cord and no more than that for the winter (oct-may) I love it i do sell alot of firewood for indoor and outdoor woodstoves/burners, and have found that in our area the heatmor guys use less wood! As far as taking a long time to cut as mentioned in the other post, My Brother, Hired Man (for the day) and myself could cut that wood up and have it dumped at home in about 12 hours! If you figure propane cost to heat my house this year would be $4,000 we are making around $333.00 an hour cutting wood...

 

[twofer]

Keep in mind that indoor wood burners are not using wood to heat their hot water and are not using that same stove to heat an auxilliary structure. If I were to take my water heater and garage off-line then I would be able to improve on the 9 cords by a lot.

This is true, however, there are many people with wood boiler systems (Econoburn, EKO, Garn, and Tarm) that heat both their home and their DHW with wood and use considerably less wood. Everything I've read about outdoor wood burners indicates that the idling/standby losses and incomplete combustion leads to a drop in efficiency compared to the wood boiler systems that I listed before.

Now before anyone gets out their pitchforks and torches let me say that if you have something that says otherwise I would definitely like to read it.

 

[Tracker83]

This is true, however, there are many people with wood boiler systems (Econoburn, EKO, Garn, and Tarm) that heat both their home and their DHW with wood and use considerably less wood. Everything I've read about outdoor wood burners indicates that the idling/standby losses and incomplete combustion leads to a drop in efficiency compared to the wood boiler systems that I listed before.

Now before anyone gets out their pitchforks and torches let me say that if you have something that says otherwise I would definitely like to read it.

Right now the only data that either side has is purely subjective. There are WAY too many variables to use internet wood consumption reports to accurately compare efficiencies. I will agree that *in theory* an outside wood burner should use more wood than an inside wood burning device. However, I believe that difference is much less than all of the internet anti-OWB propoganda would lead you to believe. If I had to guess, the results from a controlled experiment would show that an OWB uses 20-25% more wood; not 100% more.

 

[urhstry]

...I believe that difference is much less than all of the internet anti-OWB propoganda would lead you to believe. If I had to guess, the results from a controlled experiment would show that an OWB uses 20-25% more wood; not 100% more.

:agree2: :agree2:

 

[tcNH]

Shaver Furnace

have any of you heard of the shaver owf (hotwater)out of Arkansas? I met with a dealer nearby and seems to be a lot cheaper in price than others I've seen, may buy one for my 2500 sf home. and if you have what have you heard?

thanks...1st posting

 

[046]

numbers posted in this thread disagree with only a 20-25% increase in wood consumption.

based upon AS regulars feedback... OWB is 9-12 cords VS inside wood stove 3-5 cords
part of that difference is OWB's are also supporting hot water need for the winter.

there's a major difference between someone posting an article favoring or against OWB vs having a bunch of AS regulars posting feedback on their actual usage coupled with real life conditions their OWB is operating under.

I'll take feedback from AS regulars over articles any day!!!

Right now the only data that either side has is purely subjective. There are WAY too many variables to use internet wood consumption reports to accurately compare efficiencies. I will agree that *in theory* an outside wood burner should use more wood than an inside wood burning device. However, I believe that difference is much less than all of the internet anti-OWB propoganda would lead you to believe. If I had to guess, the results from a controlled experiment would show that an OWB uses 20-25% more wood; not 100% more.

 

[carney19]

have any of you heard of the shaver owf (hotwater)out of Arkansas? I met with a dealer nearby and seems to be a lot cheaper in price than others I've seen, may buy one for my 2500 sf home. and if you have what have you heard?

thanks...1st posting

Just do a forum search and a lot of info pops up

 

[itn]

my wood piles last a year- not just winter i use it year round. the wood i use is not handled near as much as when i had a woodstove. the only thing i split is what i cant handle or wont fit in the door. i spose thats why whatever i use doesn't seem like as much

 

[twofer]

Right now the only data that either side has is purely subjective. There are WAY too many variables to use internet wood consumption reports to accurately compare efficiencies. I will agree that *in theory* an outside wood burner should use more wood than an inside wood burning device. However, I believe that difference is much less than all of the internet anti-OWB propoganda would lead you to believe. If I had to guess, the results from a controlled experiment would show that an OWB uses 20-25% more wood; not 100% more.

Please don't get the idea that I'm anti-OWB because that couldn't be farther from the truth because I'm all for self sustaining ones energy needs. My opinion of OWB is that they are a good idea but could see some serious improvement in the efficiency and the smoke departments.

Now I know this is subjective too but there is a guy north of Grand Rapids that just got rid of his Central Boiler and replaced it with a EKO 60 gasification boiler. It would be interesting to get his take on wood usage since many of the variables would be the same considering it is a swap-out.

 

[Tracker83]

Please don't get the idea that I'm anti-OWB because that couldn't be farther from the truth because I'm all for self sustaining ones energy needs. My opinion of OWB is that they are a good idea but could see some serious improvement in the efficiency and the smoke departments.

Now I know this is subjective too but there is a guy north of Grand Rapids that just got rid of his Central Boiler and replaced it with a EKO 60 gasification boiler. It would be interesting to get his take on wood usage since many of the variables would be the same considering it is a swap-out.

I understand what you are saying, however I believe there are a lot of myths being propogated regarding OWBs. I personally know close to 10 people that run these things I just don't see big problems with smoke and efficiency. Certainly not enough to warrant "serious improvement". Do they use more than an indoor stove? Yes. Do they use more than a gasification boiler? Yes. Is it an excessive amount more? I would say no. My FIL lives 2 miles from me and heats with an indoor stove. Last winter he burned 6 cords of 2-year seasoned apple wood. The 3 extra cords that I burned over his amount doesn't seem that outrageous seeing as I am heating a bigger house, heating my water, heating my garage, and my wood wasn't as seasoned.

 

[Tracker83]

numbers posted in this thread disagree with only a 20-25% increase in wood consumption.

based upon AS regulars feedback... OWB is 9-12 cords VS inside wood stove 3-5 cords
part of that difference is OWB's are also supporting hot water need for the winter.

It is still an apples-to-oranges comparison. OWB users consume 9-12 cord per season because of such things as:
1) Using unseasoned wood. One of the big draws to using an OWB is that you don't have to burn properly seasoned wood. Most guys I know that are running OWBs start collecting their firewood in August/September. I experienced a 3 cord reduction by burning wood that had been seasoned 12 months. Also, a lot of OWB guys are burning the "junk" wood that you inside guys won't burn. 3/4 of my wood last year consisted of pine, poplar, and box elder.
2) Additional space-heating demands. Many or most OWB owners are heating more than just their home. Another big draw to these things is that you can heat multiple structures with 1 unit. OWB owners are generally heating structures such as pole barns, attached or detached garages, greenhouses, workshops etc. The additional heating requires additonal wood usage. Woodburning 101. How much additonal wood would folks with indoor woodburners use if they added a 2nd burner in the garage and kept it going 24/7 from October through April?
3) Water Heating. This has already been discussed, but it is obvious that this increased demand will effect wood consumption.
4) Creature Comforts. Look at how many OWB owners are adding things like infloor heat. Although nice, it is a fairly inefficient method of heating as you are conducting a lot of heat to the ground.

I stand by my 20-25% number if examining a apples-to-apples comparison with most of these variables controlled. Take an OWB and burn 2-year seasoned oak, no water heating, no heating of auxilliary buildings, no infloor heat and I bet you would be surprised at the actual wood usage.

 

[bowtechmadman]

I'm w/ tracker...definately couldn't have said it better myself.
I'm burning a Woodmaster 5500, heating 3800 sq. ft., domestic hot water, and occasionaly my 30x40 barn. House kept at 74 all winter.
I don't stack but pile my wood so I'm guessing by number of truck loads that go into the stack 10-12 cords a year over the last 4.
Increased amount of wood used is worth not having an indoor stove for me...longer burn times, even heat throughout house, not bringing the wood mess indoors, no smoke in the house etc...
I'm not the most energetic of people and it doesn't seem like that much work putting up 12 cords or so. Granted it's a good thing I enjoy cutting, and the time in the woods is a nice replacement for the gym and pschiatrist.

 

[iCreek]

Gotta Love my OWB $$$

urhstry -

You might be light on posts due to the season, more activity in the winter months when people are inside and online more.

Here is my info from my install early winter this year.. I will have better numbers this year going complete a winter.

This is what I have, installed Jan 2008..
- Stove: Hardy Model H2
- Location: Missouri (right in the middle)
- Home: 2500 sq. ft. ranch (5 year old)
- Heating: Keeping house at 73F via forced air furnace, heating domestic water prior to going into water heater tank.
- PEX details: standard 3/4" PEX from Lowes, wraped in 3/8" thick poly pipe insulation, placed in a 4" schedule 40 pipe.
- Stove distance from home: 55 ft.
- Wood usage: 3 cord in 4 months, Jan - April, seasoned hardwood with some low-quality softwood.


Installing water to air exchanger
http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=60148

My OWB project
http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?p=826913#post826913

 

[twofer]

It is still an apples-to-oranges comparison. OWB users consume 9-12 cord per season because of such things as:
1) Using unseasoned wood. One of the big draws to using an OWB is that you don't have to burn properly seasoned wood. Most guys I know that are running OWBs start collecting their firewood in August/September. I experienced a 3 cord reduction by burning wood that had been seasoned 12 months. Also, a lot of OWB guys are burning the "junk" wood that you inside guys won't burn. 3/4 of my wood last year consisted of pine, poplar, and box elder.

A gasification boiler system can handle all types of wood as long as it has been seasoned down to a reasonable amount (<35%). This really should be done with any wood burning setup since you'll lose ~1250btu's (not including the btu's to change state) per gallon of water in the wood. Not to mention that burning unseasoned wood is not only a waste of the wood's potential but also increases the amount of smoke generated. Smoke is an issue because states and varying localities are moving to regulating OWB's due to smoke complaints (including our great state).

2) Additional space-heating demands. Many or most OWB owners are heating more than just their home. Another big draw to these things is that you can heat multiple structures with 1 unit. OWB owners are generally heating structures such as pole barns, attached or detached garages, greenhouses, workshops etc. The additional heating requires additonal wood usage. Woodburning 101. How much additonal wood would folks with indoor woodburners use if they added a 2nd burner in the garage and kept it going 24/7 from October through April?

A wood boiler system can provide heat to additional structures in addition to the structure it resides in. They're both hydronic systems so the capabilities are the same. Although, one upside a boiler system has is being closed and pressurized which means less maintenance and corrosion (no oxygen uptake).

3) Water Heating. This has already been discussed, but it is obvious that this increased demand will effect wood consumption.

Most of the guys I've seen with a gasification boiler setup also heat their DHW with it.

4) Creature Comforts. Look at how many OWB owners are adding things like infloor heat. Although nice, it is a fairly inefficient method of heating as you are conducting a lot of heat to the ground.

Many boiler owners are doing this as well but from my research a lot depends on the amount of insulation that you place underneath your PEX and the type of flooring that is placed on top. One of the added benefits of radiant floor is a larger usable temp range. A water to air exchanger is only good down to ~140 whereas a radiant floor can utilize water temps well below this.

I stand by my 20-25% number if examining a apples-to-apples comparison with most of these variables controlled. Take an OWB and burn 2-year seasoned oak, no water heating, no heating of auxilliary buildings, no infloor heat and I bet you would be surprised at the actual wood usage.

It could be 20-25% or it could be more. I think a lot would depend on how well the unit was sized to the heat load. It seems to me that most units are way over sized and spend much of their time idling, which is not efficient.

Hopefully this doesn't come off as argumentative. I really just enjoy debating/talking about burning wood between "chainsaw therapy".

 

[dimanager]

What I am curious about is, of the people with indoor stoves, how many have a normal furnace as a back up and does it kick on sometimes. I'm not trying to start anything, but the two people that I personally know that have had wood stoves also had a furnace that would start up over nite or when they were away from the house all day. One has switched to a Central Boiler and really likes it. Like I said, not trying to start anything, just curious.

Sam