Payback time fiquring for a OWB

[zsteinmetz]

I got my wood doctor 2 years ago off ebay for $4800 plus $600 to ship it. With all the pipe, pumps fittings, saws splitter I have a total of about $6500 in my system. At $2000 a year in natural gas for garage and house it is a no brainer. Wood burners are going up tremendously every year so im glad i bought mine when i did. Alot of guys including myself who have OWB's consider there time cutting wood free labor. If your one to write yourself a check everytime you cut wood then dont buy one.

 

[beerman6]

+2+
People whose sole reason for burning wood is saving money and need to get out a slide rule and calculator to decide if it is worth their precious time should not waste money by purchasing wood burning equipment to start with IMO. These are the people who soon tire of it all and then make bargain priced woodburners available to us die hards.

"what is your time worth" while cutting and preparing the wood? Same price it is setting next to the TV, or sleeping, or chasing the ole woman around the house, ZILCH!!

If anything in life that requires a person to get off his duff means it is costing him money per hour please explain where does the money go? and who gets it? Who pays it?
If that is too complicated then how about this, how is my time suddenly worth more cutting wood than say sitting on the crapper 5 minutes before?

 

[leon]

outdoor boiler

Leon - I read you post a few times - way over my head. Doesn't make any sense to me - sorry

Hey blackdogon57 please do not feel you need to apologise, I did not intend to burden anyone with it(my comments)and there is no need to apologise to me as we are all friends here.

Its what is quite often referred to as the Ben Franklin closing.

Or a decision tree.


Take a sheet of paper draw a line down the middle and then you add up the plusses and minuses and hopefully the plusses are greater than the minuses it works every time all the time.


Its the accountant in me


Anyway its simply a matter of income versus expenses and the added income from the reduction in spending on essential items like food(canning/gardening/food co-ops CSA's etc. and fiewood or coal helps to reduce overall expenses and allows you to keep more money in your pocket.


I still have the same pressurised Switzer wood and coal boiler I bought and paid for over 5 years in 1982 and I am looking to replace it with my first outdoor unit, as bringing in wood through a right hand door and having to shut it to get to the boiler, and dealing with the mess is really old and as my house is so old and poorly insulated I spend a lot of time filling it, and of course the ashes and wood mess add up. It's a case of my wanting to heat up a large amount of stored water once a day to heat my home and my domestic hot water too-hell I am on my third propane hot water heater over 20 years too.


No different than buying coal in the off seasonor logs or buying a wood lot for fuel. the investment you make in anything be it an economy car/boiler/education or the logs or wood lot you are investing in something that will reduce your total energy expenditures and increase your income.

when I started burning softwood I used to get up early before work and bring in a face cord of hemlock slabwood when I could still get it to burn in my wood boiler.

I saved a lot of money on cheap oil back then by burning quartered slab wood iand it's to bad that I do not have the slab wood to burn now or some of the ponderosa pine the western board members do as most if not all the lousy wood is going to biofuel plants or eastern wood pellets and the wood pellets are being exported at that.

I never ment to upset anyone with my comments and I sincerely apologise to the folks I upset with my posting.

opcorn:


leon

 

[ktmsooner]

I've praying for some cold weather so I can fire up the OWB. I have a new 361 setting in the shop with only one tank thru it. I already have 13 face cords stacked and with the weater in Oklahoma, I will only use 3 to 4 face cords in a season. I want to use the OWB so bad, I can taste it. It's fun! I know I am probably sick, but I still like it.

 

[JBinKC]

Leon I am not sure where the depreciation fits in here since a homeowner does not have a tax benefit from installing a OWB. Another thing is the homeowner is likely to hold the asset longer than the payback period eliminating salvage value
to the calculation.

A simple calculation for a payback period for the investment is the total cost/annual variable costs and there are lots of variable costs to consider which Leon mentioned (You add the propane and subtract wood costs and its hidden extras. There are also other assumptions to consider i.e. additional capital costs like saws, splitters to put in the numerator.

 

[leon]

Leon I am not sure where the depreciation fits in here since a homeowner does not have a tax benefit from installing a OWB. Another thing is the homeowner is likely to hold the asset longer than the payback period eliminating salvage value
to the calculation.

A simple calculation for a payback period for the investment is the total cost/annual variable costs and there are lots of variable costs to consider which Leon mentioned (You add the propane and subtract wood costs and its hidden extras. There are also other assumptions to consider i.e. additional capital costs like saws, splitters to put in the numerator.

trade value if any or scrap

opcorn:

 

[mimilkman1]

My OWB and a new splitter as well as 372xp saw was just about $10K for everything. My home uses about 1,600 gallons per year (my domestic hot water included). At $4 per gallon fuel oil costs $6400. In 2 years that would be $12,800. Oil may drop OR rise, but even if oil dropped to $3 per gallon I would still have a 2 year payback. ALL of my wood is free and I enjoy doing the work. I'm also not supporting the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia----This alone is reason enough to use wood. As far as electricity I have 2 extra circulator pumps that work with a heat exchanger. I would use nearly the same electricity anyways with the existing 4 pumps. AND my house will be WARM !!! No more 65 degrees ! If it's below zero outside I will have Caribbean weather inside. I will wear shorts, T-shirts, and flip-flops all winter dammit!!!!

Every time I look outside my 74 degree home after a very long, very hot shower and see that tiny bit of smoke rising my OWB pays for itself right there.

The propane and nat gas companies and oil exporters can all kiss my ass.

+1 Yessiree I agree!!

Kyle

 

[iCreek]

What monthly payment ?? Not everyone has one. I own my OWB/I burn scrap wood that is pretty much free and I burn no oil/gas for heat or hot water. I suspect lots of people who buy OWB's or even wood stoves are in the same boat.

I think everyone's situation will be different, my used Hardy OWB was free, the install cost us about $800 doing most everything with family and friends. Wood is harvested on our own property, have cost like fuel and time, but we really enjoy the fall/winter exercise and just being outdoors. My payback was last year, or maybe for sure by the middle of this winter.

 

[JBinKC]

Sorry, I agree you will have to subtract a salvage value in the total cost.

 

[aandabooks]

. Alot of guys including myself who have OWB's consider there time cutting wood free labor. If your one to write yourself a check everytime you cut wood then dont buy one.

I'm fairly certain that the OP is buying her wood. So therefore, it is obviously not free and not a by-product of something that her husband enjoys doing. ie: running a saw and seeing the wood pile grow.

So for her, if she continues to buy all of the wood that the OWB consumes, that has to be figured into the payback.

 

[bowtechmadman]

Little woman of mine is a Corporate Controller and she figured our payback was 4 yrs. Based on the initial cost of OWB/install/pex etc.., annual electrical cost for pump. Oil price she calculated was at 1.90 a gallon.
We did not incluse a cost for the wood (have 20 acres, and neighbors 120 that I clean the dead wood from). Labor was not included b/c I'm just "weird" and really enjoy the time spent in the woods.
Chainsaws/gas/oil/chains etc...our in the hobby category on our budget.
I'm w/ Huskyman and nothing better than sitting in my house in boxers and t-shirt when it's 0 outside.
Average temp of house prior to OWB was 67, post OWB 73....life is good!!!

 

[oneoldbanjo]

I have no idea what my payback time will be. I installed the OWB when we built our new house in an effort to avoid oil or propane. We live in a rural area and cannot get natural gas. The oil heat that we had in our old house is very dirty and the furnace is noisey, and my friends had a propane scare a few years ago when supplies were limited. We also have 26 acres and lots of woods and old trees are constantly falling down - and I have to clean them up. Instead of just throwing them in a burn pile like I did the first 14 years we lived on the property - now I can cut them up for heat. We now heat the house and garage with the OWB.......and the biggest energy expense we have is electricity for our electric clothes dryer.

Part of he expense of getting ready to burn wood for me was adding a wood storage building, a woodsplitter, and a new chainsaw (or two or three). I am however well satisfied that we have made the right decision to get "Off the Grid" as much as possible.....and when I retire I won't be paying a lot of my "fixed income" in an effort to stay warm. If I can stay healthy and in good condition I should only have to spend some time cutting wood to keep the house and garage warm. Woodcutting for me is good therapy...both physical and mental. Last night while cutting I found a box turtle, saw 5 deer, and got to spend some time with a neighbor who came over to get a few loads of wood as I currently have an excess of wood.

 

[Mister Twister]

I have no idea what my payback time will be. I installed the OWB when we built our new house in an effort to avoid oil or propane. We live in a rural area and cannot get natural gas. The oil heat that we had in our old house is very dirty and the furnace is noisey, and my friends had a propane scare a few years ago when supplies were limited. We also have 26 acres and lots of woods and old trees are constantly falling down - and I have to clean them up. Instead of just throwing them in a burn pile like I did the first 14 years we lived on the property - now I can cut them up for heat. We now heat the house and garage with the OWB.......and the biggest energy expense we have is electricity for our electric clothes dryer.

Part of he expense of getting ready to burn wood for me was adding a wood storage building, a woodsplitter, and a new chainsaw (or two or three). I am however well satisfied that we have made the right decision to get "Off the Grid" as much as possible.....and when I retire I won't be paying a lot of my "fixed income" in an effort to stay warm. If I can stay healthy and in good condition I should only have to spend some time cutting wood to keep the house and garage warm. Woodcutting for me is good therapy...both physical and mental. Last night while cutting I found a box turtle, saw 5 deer, and got to spend some time with a neighbor who came over to get a few loads of wood as I currently have an excess of wood.

I have heard of some individuals that have converted their electric dryer to incorporate a heater core from a car to replace the electric heater element. The tumbler motor only uses moderate energy (mainly on start up) it is the big resistance heater in the dryer that sucks the energy.
All kidding aside I feel the same way as you I like the outdoors and it is not as important for to me to have a short payback. I did not loan any money for the unit I budgeted it.Anything I save is a plus. I think we can all agree the American public is getting very lazy and the extra exercise would not hurt any of us. Wood is a renewable source and is just a good idea for heat however you look at it. We burn enough oil in our cars and trucks.

:greenchainsaw:

 

[danl]

Due to the fact that my wife tries to keep our thermostat at 80+, I think our payback was something like two weeks

She really did keep it that high for a couple of years, I have got her to adjust to around 76 now.

I consider it mostly free heat, I have a 125 acre farm with a lot of trees and it keeps me busy clearing dead stuff and clearing pasture, I might as well heat with it as burn it in a brushpile.
When Ike came thru it should have me pretty well set for the winter. Just have to get it all split and hauled.

 

[itn]

I have no idea what my payback time will be. I installed the OWB when we built our new house in an effort to avoid oil or propane. We live in a rural area and cannot get natural gas. The oil heat that we had in our old house is very dirty and the furnace is noisey, and my friends had a propane scare a few years ago when supplies were limited. We also have 26 acres and lots of woods and old trees are constantly falling down - and I have to clean them up. Instead of just throwing them in a burn pile like I did the first 14 years we lived on the property - now I can cut them up for heat. We now heat the house and garage with the OWB.......and the biggest energy expense we have is electricity for our electric clothes dryer.

Part of he expense of getting ready to burn wood for me was adding a wood storage building, a woodsplitter, and a new chainsaw (or two or three). I am however well satisfied that we have made the right decision to get "Off the Grid" as much as possible.....and when I retire I won't be paying a lot of my "fixed income" in an effort to stay warm. If I can stay healthy and in good condition I should only have to spend some time cutting wood to keep the house and garage warm. Woodcutting for me is good therapy...both physical and mental. Last night while cutting I found a box turtle, saw 5 deer, and got to spend some time with a neighbor who came over to get a few loads of wood as I currently have an excess of wood.

well said. I'm still try'n to figure out who to send the bill too for all my time spent on this forum.

 

[Butch(OH)]

I never ment to upset anyone with my comments and I sincerely apologise to the folks I upset with my posting.

opcorn:


leon

There is no problem Leon, just keep on keep'en on

I have been posting on the I net since 1999 and still have to be reminded now and then that people cannot see my face when reading what I type. As I re-read my post I see it was me who came off strong, wasnt intended that way, sorry.

 

[stephen44]

Interestingly - my Realtor neighbor says I have added more than the cost of the install to the value of my house. So my payback was in fact negative 4 months ! :greenchainsaw:

 

[LadyToysDream]

Need to fill in the blanks here

Yes we did buy our wood this year, and should have some left over for next season also. I thought it would give the hubby a head start. I would rather buy wood than buy propane

Then when Dad followed our example and got his OWB in August, hubby ended up going to his house and they cut Dad's wood out back of his house. So Dad's wood was free, minus the small expenses of gas, oil, and whatever value one wants to put on their *time* in the cutting and hauling out.
Maybe next year, when hubby helps Dad again, we might be able to get some of the wood ourselves for our pile. This summer was a learning experience for all of us.

I have 2 sons putting in OWB's. One works for a farmer part time in addition to his full time job. This farmer has fields out back of this son's house, and already told him, he could cut whatever he needs for his own use.
It maybe possible to work on shares with him, not sure yet.

Hubby maybe can get a few trees now and then, because of his regular job. But 2 co workers burn wood also, and usually get first dibs on them.

We will need to buy a spliter and a trailer to haul wood in for the future. So have to fiqure out how to build that expense into our budget for next year. We have 2 full size F150's 4x4 but the hubby does not like to use those beds, for wood hauling. It will have to be a good size trailer. Again, all good investments

 

[Mister Twister]

Need to fill in the blanks here

Yes we did buy our wood this year, and should have some left over for next season also. I thought it would give the hubby a head start. I would rather buy wood than buy propane

Then when Dad followed our example and got his OWB in August, hubby ended up going to his house and they cut Dad's wood out back of his house. So Dad's wood was free, minus the small expenses of gas, oil, and whatever value one wants to put on their *time* in the cutting and hauling out.
Maybe next year, when hubby helps Dad again, we might be able to get some of the wood ourselves for our pile. This summer was a learning experience for all of us.

I have 2 sons putting in OWB's. One works for a farmer part time in addition to his full time job. This farmer has fields out back of this son's house, and already told him, he could cut whatever he needs for his own use.
It maybe possible to work on shares with him, not sure yet.

Hubby maybe can get a few trees now and then, because of his regular job. But 2 co workers burn wood also, and usually get first dibs on them.

We will need to buy a spliter and a trailer to haul wood in for the future. So have to fiqure out how to build that expense into our budget for next year. We have 2 full size F150's 4x4 but the hubby does not like to use those beds, for wood hauling. It will have to be a good size trailer. Again, all good investments

It sounds like you have a good plan. I have found my wood supply for this year from Craigslist. I have two Black Walnut trees to take out of some couples back yard this weekend. They are starting to die for some reason and they would like them out of there. Great location to get at them and plenty of room to put the brush. Looking forward to cutting them up and getting them out of their way. Free wood is the best wood.

:greenchainsaw:

 

[leon]

owb continued

Interestingly - my Realtor neighbor says I have added more than the cost of the install to the value of my house. So my payback was in fact negative 4 months ! :greenchainsaw:

I am glad my posting was not taken poorly by all of you.

I always love it when realtors stick thier noses in to things- example- I was told years a go I needed to put a deck on my house to maintain its value-
especially since it was on flat level ground with one floor the ground floor no less. :jawdrop:


Made me want to !@#$%^&*()&^%## his deck.

Realtors are another problem as they are constantly dealing with adding to the inflated prices of housing and of course the being sub prime junkies they have not helped matters as the vote today in the house of reperesentatives has well illustrated. Oh my aching wallet!:censored: :jawdrop:

If they had just done what was suggested by changing the one accounting rule that got the savings and loan buffoons out of trouble we would not be staring down the barrel of this self propelled howitzer. ;^((-


leon