ShaneLogs
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Ouch! I wouldn't want to fork over $4000 for a busted trailer!
Pine tree drop gone horribly wrong
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Ouch! I wouldn't want to fork over $4000 for a busted trailer!
Fred Wright
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Yup, that pine fell where the face cut aimed it. Right in line with the trailer.
Even aimed in the wrong direction, I don't understand why the guy didn't make a back cut. He's lucky that tree didn't barber chair.
Even aimed in the wrong direction, I don't understand why the guy didn't make a back cut. He's lucky that tree didn't barber chair.
Oldtimer
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In a case like that he bought the trailer the moment he started the chainsaw. I would think that the guy running the chainsaw is responsible for anything and everything that is in the tree's land zone regardless of the direction. If the tree is 80' tall he is responsible for everything within 80' in every direction including people. Would you let someone stand 20' away from a tree you were cutting down, no you would tell them to move away at least the height of the tree?
On another note when he made the notch cut where he did and then realized he made an error should he have just cut a new notch a little bit higher or would that have made a bigger problem? I usually only cut in a bush so I try to practice cutting different notchs to see what happens but I've never thought to try a "double" notch. It seems to me that as long as the 1st notch wasn't too deep it wouldn't be a problem cutting higher.
On another note when he made the notch cut where he did and then realized he made an error should he have just cut a new notch a little bit higher or would that have made a bigger problem? I usually only cut in a bush so I try to practice cutting different notchs to see what happens but I've never thought to try a "double" notch. It seems to me that as long as the 1st notch wasn't too deep it wouldn't be a problem cutting higher.
ponyexpress976
nipple fritters
The problem with cutting another notch up higher is that you now have an elephant balanced on a toothpick. Once the tree starts to go over all that force gets directed into a weakend section of wood...causing twists, maybe the first cut kicks out, who knows.
Flat out the guy had no clue cause the "oh crap" zone was full of stuff. And the tree went exactly where it was aimed to go.
blacklocst
ArboristSite Guru
I would say that the guy put the face cut in the wrong spot and realized it too late to do anything about it. I mean why would you put a back cut on it if you screwed up the face cut? Pro or no pro working on limited sleep is a recipe for disaster.
It didn't barber chair because it fell forward and there was no backcut.
Just theorizing here but the operator might had erroniously thought, as many do, that the tree will go in the direction pulled - which may be true if you accelerated your pull faster than the pull of gravity without breaking the stem and if you are able to overcome the directional effect of the hinge - but as a practical matter most pulls just start the fall and the hinge (if it remains intact) guides the direction of the fall.
Ron
Just theorizing here but the operator might had erroniously thought, as many do, that the tree will go in the direction pulled - which may be true if you accelerated your pull faster than the pull of gravity without breaking the stem and if you are able to overcome the directional effect of the hinge - but as a practical matter most pulls just start the fall and the hinge (if it remains intact) guides the direction of the fall.
Ron
For the record I cut up all of my trees on the GROUND so I don't mess with standing ones. I do have a question about the stump in the pic. Looking at the picture it looks as if the stump has a left lean to it which is away from the trailer and house. Was he trying to compensate for that lean with his cut to get it to go towards the windmill? Again not a tree expert just wanting to learn.
Blackbruin
ArboristSite Operative
Most people can screw up even professionals, or part timers. I see too far of a notch, and no back cut is pretty amateur. Roped off with tension a backcut and wedges if needed is more like it. No hinge means no control no matter how much pulling force.
cowroy
Addicted to ArboristSite
A similar instance happened to my papaw's neighbor. The difference was it fell on an outbuilding with a 18,000 dollar tractor in it. Even worse for him, it was a property line tree and he had to pay my papaw for half of the tree. :msp_rolleyes:
haveawoody
Addicted to ArboristSite
Pretty obvious what happened here.
A cut was made 70% through the tree then Horse Power was used to try and pull the tree in the other direction.
This works fine and dandy on smallish trees of odd shapes, but on a large tree this is just as likely to happen when the horse power isnt strong enough or the rope breaks.
This tree cutter needs to read and learn proper tree removal techniques before a tree finds him.
A cut was made 70% through the tree then Horse Power was used to try and pull the tree in the other direction.
This works fine and dandy on smallish trees of odd shapes, but on a large tree this is just as likely to happen when the horse power isnt strong enough or the rope breaks.
This tree cutter needs to read and learn proper tree removal techniques before a tree finds him.
Ifishsum
ArboristSite Member
The "Great Timber" name on the trailer sorta cracked me up, given the circumstances...
hardpan
Addicted to ArboristSite
Just curious. Do you always pull in the same direction as your notch or do you sometimes pull to the side a little? For instance, if your drop target was the windmill but you wanted to be damn sure it didn't go to the right any so you have your truck pulling to the left of the windmill to make sure the fall starts on course and then stears with the notch and hinge toward the windmill. Ive done very few falls with a rope pull.
Another question. I read here recently a pulling vehicle will pull 80% of its weight. Is that 2WD, 4WD, tracked, on mud, on dry ground, on concrete, etc? Are we talking tensile strength, working load, or other? More specifically my 3000 pound 4WD tractor or 4WD truck should pull what sized rope?
Another question. I read here recently a pulling vehicle will pull 80% of its weight. Is that 2WD, 4WD, tracked, on mud, on dry ground, on concrete, etc? Are we talking tensile strength, working load, or other? More specifically my 3000 pound 4WD tractor or 4WD truck should pull what sized rope?
Preston
Addicted to ArboristSite
80% huh? My 3500 Dodge weighs in at 7200 lbs. Are you saying I should only be able to pull 80% of that? My Teton fifthwheel loaded with water food, and just everything you would carry with you, comes in at 16,500. Now I know it has wheels but still it is a load. If the winch on the front was using a double line that would be 16,000 from an 8000 lb winch. How would that figure in?
Hardpan, I am no expert and I hesitate to wade in here but if you have a properly cut hinge I believe you should always pull in the direction of the hinge as you don't want to induce any forces which may jeopardize your hinge. Too many variables to comment on your rope/pulling capacity questions and the math would probably be over my pay grade but I will say in typical dry turf conditions on flat ground a full size 4wd truck will out pull a 3000# 4wd tractor. Lastly, IME other than preloading the rope, usually the pull is only for a fraction of a second and the effect is simply to put gravity and the hinge to work. Ron
haveawoody
Addicted to ArboristSite
hardpan,
Always pull in the same direction as the notch.
Any other pulling force can make for an uncontrolled drop or worse a snap off before drop.
Pretty easy to snap the small hinge of wood with a pulling force at any direction other than directly with the notch.
Pulling a tree down should be just convincing it to go somewhere you have set in your cut.
If your notch and cut are good it takes very little force to get a tree to start to fall.
Anything else is asking for trouble.
Always pull in the same direction as the notch.
Any other pulling force can make for an uncontrolled drop or worse a snap off before drop.
Pretty easy to snap the small hinge of wood with a pulling force at any direction other than directly with the notch.
Pulling a tree down should be just convincing it to go somewhere you have set in your cut.
If your notch and cut are good it takes very little force to get a tree to start to fall.
Anything else is asking for trouble.
Preston, rolling load capacity and pulling capacity are two different animals. A bulldozer is rated for a maximum pull of about 150% of operating weight (much less as the speed increases) see for example: http://www.deere.com/en_US/docs/construction/crawler_dozers/dkakgdzr.pdf Real field conditions and a wheeled vehicle is going to be less. You can google Nebraska Tractor tests if you want to compare tractor weight with pulling capacity. Ron
Well said. To make sure your hinge will do it's job the gunning cut (face cut) is vital, Make sure your cuts line up with each other. Your back cut will determine the size of your hinge and your hinge will usually (but not always
) steer the tree.Pulling a little off center to the hinge can cause one side of the hinge to break before the other and the tree might swing. It's the same effect you'll get if you intentionally cut a tapered hinge.
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