Pitch and guage for milling

[poleframer]

A thread about 090 sprockets in chainsaws got me wondering about chain size for milling. Did some reading of old posts on the subject and thought I'd re-introduce it.
I run 404, and had thought about going 3/8 or even .325 for a thinner kerf, but the chance of chain breakage put me off.
And to be honest, I doubt I'd gain enough in the differance to get more lumber.
Anyone change chain size and noticed the differance?

 

[woodshop]

I've milled thousands of bd ft with nothing but 3/8 with never a broken chain. Hit plenty of hardware, embedded rocks etc... never a broken chain. Heard of people using 3/8 LP and having problems, but no direct info. Think there is a thread on using 3/8LP and having problems but forget where. Only reason I have not used .404 is that I never had a need to. It is a tad more expensive, and heavier, and for what I do I don't see a benefit over 3/8.

 

[aggiewoodbutchr]

I've been using .404 but am in the process of testing out 3/8. I think I'll be switching to 3/8" for the potential of a narrower kerf. I'm looking to reduce strain on the powerhead more than to reduce material waste.

 

[carvinmark]

I just switched to 404 about a month ago. I didn't notice much difference. Never had a problem with 3/8.
Mark

 

[oldsaw]

All 3/8, all the time. I've torn 3 teeth off of a rip chain hitting a 20d nail.

Mark

 

[aggiewoodbutchr]

I mean no disrespect when I say this but last time this was kicked around I found there was little real scientific evidence provided by anybody, including myself, that supported any claim that one chain was better than the next. If there was then I missed it. Plenty people chimed in and shared what was working for them which is great. Experience is often the best teacher. However, I found not many of these people had tried much else.

I am going to make an attempt to conduct tests of this nature in the near future for the benefit of myself and anyone who cares to hear my findings. I have several loops of 3/8" and .404 chain already and a few more on the way. I also have a chain grinder in the mail to enable me to try different grind patterns.

I would like to make this a collaborative effort if anyone is interested. Cost is the biggest hindrance to the extent of testing I would like to conduct and time is a close second. Any ideas? If so, please share. I see an opportunity here that can generate some valuable information if we work together.


Jared

 

[upandcommer]

I use an old mac 1-43 80cc workhorse for my milling and have found through the use of both .404 pitch and 3/8ths that 3/8ths does free up a bit of the engine torque for longer bars since the chain speed is slower at any given rpm however the trade off for me was not worth it since my milling saw has plenty of torque and most of my cuts rarely need more than a 28" bar I have stuck with the .404 it is faster for any given rpm and i have never needed more torque. If however i was to use a modern saw i.e. hp over torque i would definitely think seriously about the switch there isn't allot of torque in the modern saws and most are tuned for horse power so any torque you can free is a plus.

 

[aggiewoodbutchr]

I use an old mac 1-43 80cc workhorse for my milling and have found through the use of both .404 pitch and 3/8ths that 3/8ths does free up a bit of the engine torque for longer bars since the chain speed is slower at any given rpm however the trade off for me was not worth it since my milling saw has plenty of torque and most of my cuts rarely need more than a 28" bar I have stuck with the .404 it is faster for any given rpm and i have never needed more torque. If however i was to use a modern saw i.e. hp over torque i would definitely think seriously about the switch there isn't allot of torque in the modern saws and most are tuned for horse power so any torque you can free is a plus.

If you can get an 8 tooth sprocket in 3/8" pitch for your saw you probably will increase your cut speed significantly. You would be trading torque for work, essentially gearing up your chain speed. If you have torque to spare as you say then it might be worth a try.

 

[oldsaw]

I mean no disrespect when I say this but last time this was kicked around I found there was little real scientific evidence provided by anybody, including myself, that supported any claim that one chain was better than the next.


Jared

I run 3/8 for interchangeability and availability. Same bars, same rims, same everything. Not science, logic.

Mark

 

[aggiewoodbutchr]

I run 3/8 for interchangeability and availability. Same bars, same rims, same everything. Not science, logic.

Mark

This is what I'm looking for... what AND why. Thanks.

When I got it to this SCM kick, I followed some advice I now know wasn't totally accurate in all contexts. Had I known what I know now, I probably would have done things differently.

 

[dustytools]

If you were to switch from ..404 to 3/8 pitch what would you have to change. Im assuming if I were to stay with the same gauge chain that I could use the same bar, but would have to switch sprockets.

 

[thompson1600]

The sprocket nose would also have to be changed, unless your running a roller nose bar. Other than that you are right. Just change the sprocket out and use the same gauge chain. You can use .325 063 or .375 063 or 404 .063 all with the same bar by just changing out the sprocket nose (or nothing if using a roller nose) and changing sprockets.

 

[poleframer]

I run 3/8 for interchangeability and availability. Same bars, same rims, same everything. Not science, logic.

Mark

Good input, guys. Was thinking it would be nice to have bars and chains of different lengths to fit my mill saw(090) and my felling saw (064), but the bar mount issue nixes that.
I have found that the GB milling chain I bought makes a smoother cut, and seems to take a narrower kerf due to the rounded teeth.

 

[oldsaw]

Good input, guys. Was thinking it would be nice to have bars and chains of different lengths to fit my mill saw(090) and my felling saw (064), but the bar mount issue nixes that.
I have found that the GB milling chain I bought makes a smoother cut, and seems to take a narrower kerf due to the rounded teeth.

That's one of the reasons I went with a 3120 over the 088. The availability of bars for them is limited unless large quantities of $$ are involved. A few minutes with a 4" angle grinder, file, and a drill (plus a Cannon bar adapter), and now my small mount Stihl bars work on my 3120 too. Had to lengthen the slot on both, and trim the tail on one of the bars I modded. Now it takes the same chain loops as my 066, and I have interchangability in the field. If something happens to the 3120, the 066 is a quick swap away. If I'm packing back somewhere to a log, I can just take the 066. Best of both worlds.

I'm not the sharpest pencil in the box, but I try to simplify things as much as possible. My only "complication" was my 25" bar for the 066 that I got on closeout from Bailey's...it's an 050, so I have two loops of 050, but everything else that gets used on the big saws is 063...because the original bars I got with the 066 were both 063. It's a little harder to find 063 chain on the prairie, but I don't go through that much to make it a real issue, besides, Baileys is just an online order away.

I don't really get into the arguments about using smaller chain, since it just violates my system of simplicity. It means more chains, more sprockets, more bars, and more things to keep track of. Personally, I'm not comfortable running 325 chain on a big saw, but I'm not an engineer, so it is only my personal take on things, and I've become kind of attached to my personal appendages. But, I know 3/8s works. I'll take a bit larger kerf, because it keeps it more simple for me, and I'm a simple kind of guy. Makes my investment smaller, keeping my cost per board foot down. (That was a nice theory until I bought the 3120 anyway...:biggrinbounce2: , but I just have to mill some more logs to "average" it in, right?) I was down to just pennies per board foot over fuel and oil costs.

Your 090 is the best milling saw ever built, enjoy it, and make some nice stuff from the wood. I would love one, but, it just doesn't fit into my legendary "cheapskate" status. The 090 is "no compromise", my life is nothing but compromise. I got into this because I hated paying big bucks for oak, and not having the ability to find reliable sources for other woods. CSM's are the coolest things ever, especially for the suburban logger like myself. I'll have to start another thread on this end of the topic...what'cha wait'n for, go mill some logs already!!

Mark

 

[poleframer]

Good post, Mark. I drive Fords as well, go figure. I'm fairly out in the woods, but I'm sure my neighbors know when I'm milling wit dat 090... I do try to wait till after 6am tho.:rockn:
Russell

 

[aggiewoodbutchr]

I use roller nose bars for this reason. If necessary I can switch from .404 to 3/8" simply by changing sprockets. Incidentally, I have an extra new GB 44" roller nose, Stihl big mount bar if anyone is interested.

 

[Ollbuster]

Aggie sent you a PM about the bar.