porta wraps?

[kf_tree]

i know most of you guys are climbers and don't run ropes. but when you work with another climber and are running ropes what porta wrap do you guys prefer. i prefer the old T style one over the "porta wrap" one. i feel i have more control with it. i'm also afraid of getting my fingers stuck when taking the loop off as the branch is landed and the guys are pulling on it to untie the knot. with the old Tstyle ones after you take the wrap off you could just flick the rope and its off the brake. this one innovation where i prefer the old style ones. what do you guys use?

 

[rborist1]

:Eye:

 

[Tim Gardner]

spike_it,

I have to agree with you regarding the old style port-a-wrap. I was a groundie for a long time before I became a climber. When I had to attach the friction break to the same tree that was being worked on, I would have to back away from the tree 10 – 15 feet to remain safe. That also allowed the other groundie to have room to handle the limbs/top. And as you stated, being able to just flip the rope off the friction break after the load was removed is great too, especially at a distance. Maybe this is one tool that is getting harder to use. I think there are suppliers that you can still order the “old style” friction break from.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I use the GRCS almost every day. Not only is there no movement in it like a PW anchor has, but you can snug the rope up as much as the climber wants.

I've been over the picking and pulling and ripping and whatnot before. A tool that pays for it's self, fast.

 

[rbtree]

With the PRap lll, the 1/2 wrap that remains after flipping wraps off seems to be no problem. The lll is safer than the l, as there is no chance of losing all the wraps. I have both, but must say that we only lost a wrap once, with the l. modified it to work with fiddle blocks, haven't used them since I got a Hobbs LD.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Too bad we did not get to gether for some work when I was out there, had The Winch with me. Once you use that 12:1 crank, you ont want to use that long bar again!

 

[kf_tree]

the i have an old style one and a porta wraplll. but what i don't like about the plll is when removing that last half wrap if someone pulls on the line i'm afraid of getting my fingers stuck between the rope and the cleat. some times i'll be lowering from one yard into nieghbors yard and can't see the other ground guys because of a fence. we yell back and forth on when to land it. but its just an accident i can see happening in the future. it only takes a good tug or a rope popping off a nub to break a finger. so you guys did spend the bucks on those big lowering device's. 1500.00 always seemed way to pricey for me. how do like useing them? do you feel there worth the money?

 

[rbtree]

Yep, spike.

I have been without for my whole career tho, Just got mine from Dan Kraus, ITCC competitor, for a heck of a deal....

Great for lowering wood, as you can pretension, and almost pull the piece over. then, During freefall, take a quick tug to reduce a the slack that briefly occurs, then quickly let it run to a smooth stop. And of course for lifting big laterals, it is great. Out west here, there is less call for that kind of stuff, that's why i resisted getting one for so long.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

The Winch is like my credit card these days "Never leave home without it!"

You work with big wood already, now picture being able to;

pick up whole stems and lower them down.

Crash out one side of a tree then pull the rest over instead of rigging it out.

Have anyone easily tension the line as much as you want, then add tension as you are cutting.

set a retrievable block in an adjacent tree and pick your removal out with a basal cut, then section it out as it is lowered.

The winch costs $2500, but if it saves you an average of just 1 hour per job, then it pays for it's self in 25 jobs.

12:1 advantage means that you can pick a 1200# piece with just 100# from the groundie.

 

[murphy4trees]

JPS,
I thought GRCS had a 22:1 and 44:1 MA winch. Using the relatively short handle, I heard one man could lift 1800 lbs, which by the way exceeds the 10% SWL on almost all 1/2 in line. And when rigging I think the reduction in shock loading is more important than not overloading lines... within reason. Also remember that most other disciplines use a 20% SWL.
How wide a line can the GRCS handle?
God Bless All,
Daniel

 

[treeclimber165]

Quoting from my Sherrill catalogue

GRCS -
...With gear reductions of 4:1 in high gear and 12:1 in low gear, a single groundman can lift 2,000 pounds. The winch accepts up to 5/8" diameter lowering lines .......

Page 28 in your 2002 catalogue.

Don't know about other disciplines, but we use 10% working load because of wear factors on rope in tree work. Ratings are for brand new rope, not rope that has been drug through trees for a year.

 

[Stumper]

165, You are quite right,but the interesting thing about rope strength is that surface fuzzing only has a very slight effect on strength. To actually cause a major loss of tensile strength the rope must be cut (obvious damage),melted/fused(obvious damage), crushed (less obvious) or severely loaded (difficult -impossible to detect and not readily quantifiable).

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i really believe in tight line rigging, a positive machine without play in the system.

A pulley on the anchor can double the anchor load, but do more trix. 400-700 # is upper limits in about anything we do without looking for other avenues (crane, smaller pieces, seperate lines); sometimes using these other avenues in the upper limits of that range too.

A Porty on the back of the truck, can do lots of tricks in that range without impacting. Though we tend not to do that so much anymore, it was a phase in my journey.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

I've been using the FOS from Vertical Pro too. This is a sweetie. The way the rope loads the FOS it pulls the FOS perpendicular to the trunk so that the rope is jammed betseen the FOS and the tree. With other friction devices, the rope runs against the tree causing wear.

With the eye on the FOS there to capture the rope there is less of a danger of the rope jumping clean off the FOS and loosing control. Think of it as a fairlead.

IF anyone is concerned about getting a finger pinched by a rope wrap you should consider working out a better protocol with your team mates. That would be pilot error, not the fault of the friction device.

Tom

 

[kf_tree]

tom, i hear what your saying what communication between all the players but after a long hot day communication sometimes get's laxed. i'm just trying to avoid what i see as a potential problem. i can run ropes for a climber i'm pretty close with and we could take down a large tree with out saying a word to each other. just useing hand signals. i could watch him climb and 90% of the time i could fore see every move he'll make. i could tell you from the ground where he will tie in, where he will lower from etc. when working with other crews i'm not familar with every piece lowered must come with instructions. that fos device looks alot like the one i refer to as a T style. i thought about making a few myself in different configurations, i have a mig welder that can weld up to 1/2 in plate. but i'm not sure if i want to trust my own welds where a life could depend on it.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i all ways and always warn my guys that sticking hand or anything near a loaded friction device, is just what it is: like sticking it in open machinery! It can draw you in, and tear a peace off if there is enough power, just like if it was open gears, that is more than just my imagery of all this being like raw machinery!

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

The Harken winch used in the GRCS has a 44:1 gear ratio. Greg good worked all the figures and came up with a 12:1 output for the GRCS intended use. He is the mechanical design person, I'm mechanicaly chalanged.

Everyone I know who has bought one sais that it is the best buy they made after the chainsaw and chipper.

 

[kf_tree]

when you guys strap on those winch blocks do you cut the bark off the tree to get a good purchase on the trunk?

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Negative, you can put it on a tree being saved.

There are rubber boots on the back and they are designed to put the force of the load up and back into the tree.

The only time I've ever had one fail is while putting a heavy low angle sideload while anchored to a mature silvermaple. The old bark sheared off. Now instead of doing a heavy side load I will redirect to the trunk over The Winch so it fair leads from the top.

Both systems are very tree freindly.

 

[murphy4trees]

Good piece on the redirect JP..
I've seen a Hobbs damage the bark of a big old oak being pruned. Didn't like that at all.
Can the GRCS be mounted to a class III hitch?
Daniel