Proper Forest Management

[romeo]

Well this is as good a place as any to discuss it.

 

[LarryTheCableGuy]

Okay. You go first since it was your idea.

.

 

[romeo]

Yes I love and want to save the forest. As I said in the other thread I live 60 feet from the Lincoln National Forest in New Mexico. This mountain range is divided into basically 2 halves the half I live in and the half owned by the Mescalero Apache.
While so many people "care" and dictate how the woods should be managed over here by groups claiming to be eco-friendly, the Mescalero run their forest completely unrestricted (not to mention timber being a large industry to them).

The bottom line is that their forest is beautiful and ours is dying. I drove through there two days ago and their forest is alive and vibrant. I can't think of a better model to prove these arguments. In the next few days I am going to get pictures up here to show what am talking about.

 

[rb_in_va]

In the next few days I am going to get pictures up here to show what am talking about.

Can't wait to see them. What are some differences in the way the forests are managed? Obviously logging is part of the Mescalero plan.

 

[romeo]

They have been logging and doing controlled burns for 1000 years or more, its not new to them and its not a clear cut desert either. For one they have never been shut down, there is nothing standing dead or rotting on the ground. They don't have any overgrown sections and all of the lands are holding tree's at sustainable levels. Despite what some people would lead you to believe its beautiful, not to mention when they do have a fire in the dry season its 40 acres instead of 40,000 acres. To them the trees are a crop and they are taken when they are ready.

Our forests aren't really managed at all. After a decade of being shutdown to the loggers its a mess and might be mostly unrepairable. Factions squabble over it and raise stink over each other but in the end nothing happens. Some times there solution is just an even bigger problem, there has been talk of just closing it down from everyone, no camping hiking or anything. There are huge sections in the forest standing completely dead from beetles, moth larva, and drought. On top of it all is a thick dead canopy keeping the new growth from happening. The only place the new trees are growing is roadside but they will be christmas tree's by December. Now its standing dead but it wont stay up for ever.
Right now there should be thousands of saws humming and hundreds of loads rolling down the mountain. Of course the USDA wants to do environmental impact studies that take just long enough to make the timber worthless to loggers. And if they do get through that quick enough, it will start with the plight of the endangered ___________ lawsuits.


I guess that the main advantage of the Mescalero Forest is that it is managed by the people who live there and depend on it for a living. Who would ever have imagined that actually works.

 

[rb_in_va]

After a decade of being shutdown to the loggers its a mess and might be mostly unrepairable. Factions squabble over it and raise stink over each other but in the end nothing happens. Some times there solution is just an even bigger problem, there has been talk of just closing it down from everyone, no camping hiking or anything. There are huge sections in the forest standing completely dead from beetles, moth larva, and drought.

I think nature has many ways of managing it's forests. This is just one of them. I may be wrong though. But in any case, forests thrived for centuries without significant human involvment.

 

[romeo]

I think nature has many ways of managing it's forests. This is just one of them. I may be wrong though. But in any case, forests thrived for centuries without significant human involvment.

But they have also thrived with it. What is the purpose of letting it go to waste. I actually think humans are a part of the ecosystem and can do good as well as bad.
They estimated that natural fires rolled through these forests every eight or nine years before it was managed. Thats how the growth was controlled by nature. Now we have been putting fires out for near 100 years, which made us solely responsible for growth control. I'm sure there are "ecologists" who would like to burn us out but the fire wouldn't be the same as the natural fires that used to roll through. Just huge fires that burn everything including all of the excuses.

Why waste it if we have it?

 

[begleytree]

Well this is as good a place as any to discuss it.

not really. you'd think that the forestry and logging forum would be a much better place.
at least i think so, so much in fact that I'm moving it there....
-Ralph

 

[romeo]

not really. you'd think that the forestry and logging forum would be a much better place.
at least i think so, so much in fact that I'm moving it there....
-Ralph

Well I guess that makes even more sense.

 

[rb_in_va]

But they have also thrived with it. What is the purpose of letting it go to waste. I actually think humans are a part of the ecosystem and can do good as well as bad.
They estimated that natural fires rolled through these forests every eight or nine years before it was managed. Thats how the growth was controlled by nature. Now we have been putting fires out for near 100 years, which made us solely responsible for growth control. I'm sure there are "ecologists" who would like to burn us out but the fire wouldn't be the same as the natural fires that used to roll through. Just huge fires that burn everything including all of the excuses.

Why waste it if we have it?

I agree. When a forest fire rolls through we try to put it out as fast as possible, with no apparent thought as to how to renew the forest in the absence of nature's natural methods. It would make sense to harvest selectively to maintain the health of the forest.

 

[redprospector]

I've been preaching for years that when we started supressing fires, we took on the responsibility of doing the job that nature had the fires doing. The only way to do that is by responsible logging and thinning. I know that the Lincoln National Forest is in dire need of attention, and if we don't do the job that we took over then nature will find another way to do it. The multitude of different insects that have been attacking our trees are just one of the ways that nature has come up with.
Nature is not near as selective on thinning trees as we would like to be. In the big picture if an entire area is wiped out, well what's a few hundred years to nature? We, or our children will never see that area forested again, but nature will.

Andy

 

[smokechase II]

You guys are all wrong.

Look; the forest fire fighting industry, (Ike warned about us in his last speech), is a yearly 1 - 1.5 billion dollar assist to primarily local economies.

Hey, what is the average American Indian doing for work, when they can get it? Why fighting fire.

I say put forest health were it belongs, on the comics page.

Your job as American Citizens is not to care, but to support appropriate capitalism.

No need for you to go lite a fire in a thicket. We've got that covered.

 

[smokechase II]

So there

Taxpayers.
What do they know?

 

[smokechase II]

Just forget what you were about to say.

That picture of Smokey in the prior post.

What brand of saw is he running?

Let it go. Save it for another day.

 

[redprospector]

I know we have to supress fire, but we need to maintain the forest. Maybe they are doing it where you are, but not here. I don't begrudge the firefighters, hell, I admire them. I have been a contract faller on a few fires.
I think the cost to "mop up" after a fire is less than the cost to maintain, so there ya go.

Andy

 

[redprospector]

Hey, what is the average American Indian doing for work, when they can get it? Why fighting fire.

It sure ain't logging, or thinning. Most of em I've seen....I probably better not say that. There are several on fire crews, but they are far from average.

Andy

 

[redprospector]

I say put forest health were it belongs, on the comics page.

Your job as American Citizens is not to care, but to support appropriate capitalism.

I think that's a hell of an idea, put it on the comic page.
My job as an American Citizen is to stand up and raise hell when government is being stupid. I don't care how much money is brought into local economies, that is a temporary thing. The effects of a catostrophic fire last a long dam time. It's not about the economy.

Andy

 

[redprospector]

Taxpayers.
What do they know?

I know when someone's trying to piss down my leg, and tell me it's raining.

Andy

 

[smokechase II]

correction

Redprospector:

Suppress is spelled with two p's.

One definition of facetious is: Playfully jocular; humorous: as in facetious remarks.

Did you check your sense of humor at the keyboard?

"Environmentalist have Redwood decks."

Everyone knows they don't go beyond Cedar Siding.

 

[romeo]

Look; the forest fire fighting industry, (Ike warned about us in his last speech), is a yearly 1 - 1.5 billion dollar assist to primarily local economies.

Hey, what is the average American Indian doing for work, when they can get it? Why fighting fire.

I say put forest health were it belongs, on the comics page.

Your job as American Citizens is not to care, but to support appropriate capitalism.

No need for you to go lite a fire in a thicket. We've got that covered.

Who said we don't want the fires put out??? The point was that if we can stop them then we also have a duty to log the woods to keep the balance. Besides, youll still get your fires to put out whether the woods are groomed or not until they figure out how to change the weather, no sense in wasting all of the timber.
There is $'s in a big fire, but there are also $'s in all of those Texans pockets that are around when the woods aren't burnin. And the Texans only leave the woods looking half as bad as a fire.

By the way, thanks for fighting fires.