Rebuilding failed 660

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Mad Professor
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Pretty sure the PTO bearing is in backwards. Those Farmertec 660 kits come with the seals already installed in the bearings, along with a fair amount of metal dust.

The proper install for the PTO bearing is the plastic cage towards the crank and the deeper portion out towards the oil pump (which is used to set overall bearing depth). Without that installation, there is nowhere to install and retain the seal. If the saw ran at all, it’s possible the seal is intact sled towards the crank.

Those saws are a rabbit hole of fixes. Good luck.

Original post didn't mention a "chinesium" "660". And I was wondering where the seal was supposed to fit?

Maybe the chinese figured out how to oil that bearing from the oil pump? Did they add a hole to the oil pump, for a "total loss" lubrication system! :ices_rofl:
 
Bob Hedgecutter

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Okay, bit more info now.
How about- seal in backwards, saw ran for 20 minutes in a garage never seeing wood- just putting a smile on the face of someone never having held a 90cc saw.
Oil seal sucked in, saw stopped running- after another 20 minutes of rope pulling and a sore arm, hit Mr Google for answers- main diagnosis, pull clutch and check seals.
Not knowing any different- impact set for righty tighty lefty loosey and rattled until snappy snappy......... and we arrive at where we are now, back where I was a page ago?
 
Mad Professor
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Okay, bit more info now.
How about- seal in backwards, saw ran for 20 minutes in a garage never seeing wood- just putting a smile on the face of someone never having held a 90cc saw.
Oil seal sucked in, saw stopped running- after another 20 minutes of rope pulling and a sore arm, hit Mr Google for answers- main diagnosis, pull clutch and check seals.
Not knowing any different- impact set for righty tighty lefty loosey and rattled until snappy snappy......... and we arrive at where we are now, back where I was a page ago?

That would be interesting if you had bearing/seal in backwards, and greased the bearing (or at least some oil), and put the saw in some wood.

Would the seal or bearing fail first?

Maybe it's safer buying the Chi-Com saws unassembled.
 
Frisian

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Anything is just a wild guess now that you’ve added more details, but I’ll stand by my statement that the crank didn’t break because the seal was missing. And with the seal missing I don’t even see how the saw could be running long enough, if at all, to break a crank.

There needs to be case compression for the mix to transfer into the cylinder, and case vacuum to draw the mix into the case. The carburetor wouldn’t even pump fuel from the tank without a sealed case. Everything about a 2stroke engine is dependent on a sealed case. If you were to vac/press test the engine right now, it‘d read zero no matter how fast you pumped the handle. I suppose even though it being a massive leak, if you could get the engine started, the momentum of the piston could output more pressure and vacuum than can escape through the leak because it’s a big enough air pump, but I don’t see how you would have enough carb adjustment for the saw not to meltdown the first time you cut with it. She’d be screaming for mercy at WOT and then go silent. I’d like to know how many turns your H screw is turned out. You’re going to have to retune after repairs anyway so if you can count the turns it takes to bottom out the H needle (clockwise) and report back, that would be great.

How hard was it to start? Did you have to squirt mix in the carb throat for it to start?

If it’s not scored then there’s absolutely no reason the P&C needs to be replaced. Pictures of the exhaust side of piston and cylinder wall would help make that determination.

Were you cutting with the saw for this “20 minutes” or just trying to get it to run? You also said this saw “has very low hours of use”. Are these your “hours“ running and cutting with it with no PTO side seal?

We are getting into the territory of 2+1 does not equal 3. As in, the saw possibly being in service for “hours“, a missing crank seal, and a usable P&C.

Fug it, why deal with crank seals, just richen her up.
I didn't know that this is weak spot in the design as was noted by rogue60, was just curious as this is supposedly hardened area. After crank snapped you cant tell if it was over tightened, as threaded piece in the clutch was loose at that point.
I got the saw for 200 as kit gamble. I set to H to 2 turns and filled tank to full and after quite bit of pulling it started and ran as I said above until crank broke. I guess I should call it chinesium miracle since it ran a bit :).
I got piston out. Pin is blue on the edges, but came out easily. Piston bearing doesn't look bad also.
Will try to take pictures tomorrow.
 
Frisian

Frisian

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Pretty sure the PTO bearing is in backwards. Those Farmertec 660 kits come with the seals already installed in the bearings, along with a fair amount of metal dust.
The proper install for the PTO bearing is the plastic cage towards the crank and the deeper portion out towards the oil pump (which is used to set overall bearing depth). Without that installation, there is nowhere to install and retain the seal. If the saw ran at all, it’s possible the seal is intact sled towards the crank.
Those saws are a rabbit hole of fixes. Good luck.
Now I am curious, maybe seal is inside if bearing is backwards.
 
Short timer

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Seal has to be on the inside if this is the same saw that broke the crank. “2 turns out on the H”, missing seal, P&C that’s not destroyed and milling with the saw is an impossibility. Crank broke because it’s Chinese crap. If it didn’t break, eventually that PTO side bearing would have failed from lack of lubrication.
From past week.
1604310424222.png
 
arto_wa

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This constant reference to "Chinese crap" is getting little old.

I have built one MS660 clone and purchased one JonCutter G3800 and they both serve a purpose for a homeowner like myself and do not seem to be "crap", on the contrary.
They are a welcome low cost competition for the overpriced European design saws and especially the little $110 JonCutter 38 cc 16" has been a pleasant surprise how well it performs.

Nice to be able to still buy well performing cheap simple new chainsaws with fully adjustable carburetors.
Yes I agree 100% they are not nearly as good as the real professional saws, but that's OK with me.

Professional users already know that.
 
Frisian

Frisian

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Seal has to be on the inside if this is the same saw that broke the crank. “2 turns out on the H”, missing seal, P&C that’s not destroyed and milling with the saw is an impossibility. Crank broke because it’s Chinese crap. If it didn’t break, eventually that PTO side bearing would have failed from lack of lubrication.

Guess what saw completed milling this log…

I normally use my 070 "bone rattler" saw for milling, but this log was finished with 381, gently and sloooooooooowly.
Of course those are not OEM quality machines and pro guys are not running them as far as I know. It fits my hobby ticket though. I have fun assembling them and then running them, if saw fails I fix it and run it more.
This hobby is not for everyone and it is understandable.

381.1.jpg 070.1.jpg
 
stihl86

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Guess what saw completed milling this log…

I normally use my 070 "bone rattler" saw for milling, but this log was finished with 381, gently and sloooooooooowly.
Of course those are not OEM quality machines and pro guys are not running them as far as I know. It fits my hobby ticket though. I have fun assembling them and then running them, if saw fails I fix it and run it more.
This hobby is not for everyone and it is understandable.

View attachment 865993 View attachment 865992
How's that 070 do for milling? Does it even know its in wood? LOL
 
Short timer

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Guess what saw completed milling this log…

I normally use my 070 "bone rattler" saw for milling, but this log was finished with 381, gently and sloooooooooowly.
Of course those are not OEM quality machines and pro guys are not running them as far as I know. It fits my hobby ticket though. I have fun assembling them and then running them, if saw fails I fix it and run it more.
This hobby is not for everyone and it is understandable.

View attachment 865993 View attachment 865992
This whole thread has just been cryptic and weird.

Major details were left out, a couple big ones being that you were the builder of this Chinese kit saw, not some other guy like you said and you were using the saw for milling when the crank broke, not just “ran for 2O minutes”.
 
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