Root barrier for bald cypress near septic field

[Texas-z71]

I have a 25-30 year old beautiful 40 ft bald cypress tree in my front yard. It was on the bare lot when we bought it. I had to add about 2 ft fill around it to bring the lot up to the required grade to build in. I know this is not the recommended way to do it but the lot had too many trees to build root wells around. Anyway the tree is healthy as can be.

I have a drip irrigated aerobic septic right next to it. This is not like a conventional septic with big pipes in a gravel bed. This is like a zigzag soaker hose in amended soil.

Anyway three years later now and the root knees have already surfaced in the septic field. So now to my question: root barrier or cut down and replace?

The local arborist told me that the roots are usually in the top 2 ft. But since the tree has 2 ft of full around it it stand to reason that they have grown up and out at an angle to get into the drain field. If I install a root barrier I can go down a couple feet but I don't know it it would be enough. And even if it was enough this year will I regret it in a few years if the roots get around it?

The attached photos show the situation. The bottom of the drainage ditch is roughly the level of the base ground that the tree grew in. The septic lines start directly under the edge of the canopy on he opposite side of the ditch.

I had several of these trees on the lot. It was a tree farm before. I donated many, kept many, and cut down many. I have learned to hate them as much as I love them due to the knees. I want to keep this one since it is so big and nice but I'm not going to let t ruin a $15k septic either.

Any thoughts on this situation are appreciated. Thank you.

 

[BC WetCoast]

Most root barrier products come in 18 and 24" depth because this is generally deep enough for most trees. I'm not a bald cypress expert, but given where they grow, I would guess that they are very shallow rooted. You would need to do some research to see if the roots would grow under the root barrier. I would expect species like poplar to do it and would guess that cypress wouldn't, but I'm not sure.

Installing root barrier is pretty easy, dig a trench, put the barrier (the product I've always used is interlocking plastic panels) the trench and back fill. If you wanted deeper barrier, you could just use a second layer only deeper.

 

[ATH]

DeepRoot makes deeper barriers. The key is that you want it slightly above grade when done otherwise the roots will grow right over the top of the barrier.

 

[JeffGu]

Bald Cypress will put up knees when it is growing where the soil is saturated or flooded often. It's some kind of exagerated response to low oxygen... the roots need oxygen and this odd adaptation to growing in swamp land seems to be how the tree deals with it. Here in Nebraska, they don't do that when planted as an ornamental/lawn specimen.

My guess is that the ever-present water from the drip irrigation field close by the tree is making it do this. Bald Cypress have a huge root structure, easily 2 or 3 times the canopy diameter, often more. They're usually shallow, but I've never seen them surface or form knees in this part of the country. I suspect that you might have good luck with root barrier. The new root growth will probably all be heading closer to the surface, and the trees are very tolerant of root disturbance by virtue of having plenty of them. They do tend to seek out water in drier climates, and are pretty adept at finding it. Mine survived 3 drought years in a row with no ill effects, on a property that didn't have running water to irrigate with during that time... it didn't grow much those years, but it didn't die, either. I agree with you, they are beautiful trees. I hope you can solve your problems without removing it.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

How deep is your septic piping? I'm asking because here it's normally 6-10ft depending on area.

 

[Texas-z71]

Thanks for all the posts! The septic lines are about 12-15" below the surface. They are just 3/4" diameter hoses with small perforations every 6" or so.

I suspect this soil is relatively saturated compared to the other areas around. Given what folks have said about the root diameter I suspect the roots were already down there directly below the septic before installation. So they may have grown directly upward. If that is the case I am going to have to go very deep to cut them off to make a difference. I don't think a walk behind ditch witch can go that deep. Maybe a big riding one could. I certainly am not doing it by hand!

I had to remove one bald cypress already because the ran my pool plumbing only 3 ft from the base. There were knees in the yard 20 ft away from the tree. I have heard of them traveling much further.

Fortunately I have many red cypress trees about 50' tall to still shade the yard. And a few live oaks. I have started to add some Japanese blueberry around the perimeter to enhance privacy. I am anxious to see how they turn out.

 

[JeffGu]

I take a Zen approach to landscaping... sometimes, things I plant or already on site just don't work out... out they come, and I research until I find a better choice. It's refreshing to see that you find value in the trees and shrubs. Having to remove one or two is a loss, but it can be offset with plantings that are more appropriate for your needs, and for the site. I wish more people understood this. Too many just want to mow a flat lawn with no obstructions and not a bird in sight. Good luck with your property! Every dollar you spend will likely increase its value by many dollars.

 

[Texas-z71]

Thanks for all the posts! The septic lines are about 12-15" below the surface. They are just 3/4" diameter hoses with small perforations every 6" or so.

I suspect this soil is relatively saturated compared to the other areas around. Given what folks have said about the root diameter I suspect the roots were already down there directly below the septic before installation. So they may have grown directly upward. If that is the case I am going to have to go very deep to cut them off to make a difference. I don't think a walk behind ditch witch can go that deep. Maybe a big riding one could. I certainly am not doing it by hand!

I had to remove one bald cypress already because the ran my pool plumbing only 3 ft from the base. There were knees in the yard 20 ft away from the tree. I have heard of them traveling much further.

Fortunately I have many red cypress trees about 50' tall to still shade the yard. And a few live oaks. I have started to add some Japanese blueberry around the perimeter to enhance privacy. I am anxious to see how they turn out.

 

[Texas-z71]

Yeah, I like our trees. It is what made us develop this half acre. It had probably 5-6 dozen mature trees on it when we bought it. I hired a spade truck and donates dozens of them to communities in the area. The bald cypress are tough as nails. They all survived and this was in the severe Texas drought of 2011. The live oaks that were irrigated survived too. I lost a few transplants but that was expected. And I have planted many more since we moved in. Mediterranean fan palms, Italian cypress, and more live oaks. I really wanted Mexican white oaks but they don't do as well in our clay soil I am told. Our backyard is western facing with a huge ugly house behind it now so I am working towards shade and privacy.

Anyway, if this cypress can live then great, but if it has to go then I will replace it something more compatible.

The shame of it all is that all the septic info I find is for conventional septics. I can't even be sure this is hurting the septic I have. But I am very leery of taking that risk.

 

[ropensaddle]

Yeah, I like our trees. It is what made us develop this half acre. It had probably 5-6 dozen mature trees on it when we bought it. I hired a spade truck and donates dozens of them to communities in the area. The bald cypress are tough as nails. They all survived and this was in the severe Texas drought of 2011. The live oaks that were irrigated survived too. I lost a few transplants but that was expected. And I have planted many more since we moved in. Mediterranean fan palms, Italian cypress, and more live oaks. I really wanted Mexican white oaks but they don't do as well in our clay soil I am told. Our backyard is western facing with a huge ugly house behind it now so I am working towards shade and privacy.

Anyway, if this cypress can live then great, but if it has to go then I will replace it something more compatible.

The shame of it all is that all the septic info I find is for conventional septics. I can't even be sure this is hurting the septic I have. But I am very leery of taking that risk.

Contact your septic system engineer maybe they can advise if the system can or will be problematic to root invasion!

 

[ATH]

An engineer will see a problem with anything not in their computer model

 

[Texas-z71]

Hey, i resemble that! I am an engineer. But country boy first so I am much more practical.

 

[ATH]

We need more of your type!

 

[bpatrick1983]

I have a 25-30 year old beautiful 40 ft bald cypress tree in my front yard. It was on the bare lot when we bought it. I had to add about 2 ft fill around it to bring the lot up to the required grade to build in. I know this is not the recommended way to do it but the lot had too many trees to build root wells around. Anyway the tree is healthy as can be.

I have a drip irrigated aerobic septic right next to it. This is not like a conventional septic with big pipes in a gravel bed. This is like a zigzag soaker hose in amended soil.

Anyway three years later now and the root knees have already surfaced in the septic field. So now to my question: root barrier or cut down and replace?

The local arborist told me that the roots are usually in the top 2 ft. But since the tree has 2 ft of full around it it stand to reason that they have grown up and out at an angle to get into the drain field. If I install a root barrier I can go down a couple feet but I don't know it it would be enough. And even if it was enough this year will I regret it in a few years if the roots get around it?

The attached photos show the situation. The bottom of the drainage ditch is roughly the level of the base ground that the tree grew in. The septic lines start directly under the edge of the canopy on he opposite side of the ditch.

I had several of these trees on the lot. It was a tree farm before. I donated many, kept many, and cut down many. I have learned to hate them as much as I love them due to the knees. I want to keep this one since it is so big and nice but I'm not going to let t ruin a $15k septic either.

Any thoughts on this situation are appreciated. Thank you.

We need more of your type!

 

[bpatrick1983]

Hello, I found this forum while googling "do root barriers work well with cypress trees.

I'm fearful that I may have made a poor choice for the area I planted my bald cypress. It's 103" tall and only in the ground 4 weeks. I'm debating moving it and or using root barriers. Any chance this topic is open? I will add some photos tomorrow morning.

 

[bpatrick1983]

I have a 25-30 year old beautiful 40 ft bald cypress tree in my front yard. It was on the bare lot when we bought it. I had to add about 2 ft fill around it to bring the lot up to the required grade to build in. I know this is not the recommended way to do it but the lot had too many trees to build root wells around. Anyway the tree is healthy as can be.

I have a drip irrigated aerobic septic right next to it. This is not like a conventional septic with big pipes in a gravel bed. This is like a zigzag soaker hose in amended soil.

Anyway three years later now and the root knees have already surfaced in the septic field. So now to my question: root barrier or cut down and replace?

The local arborist told me that the roots are usually in the top 2 ft. But since the tree has 2 ft of full around it it stand to reason that they have grown up and out at an angle to get into the drain field. If I install a root barrier I can go down a couple feet but I don't know it it would be enough. And even if it was enough this year will I regret it in a few years if the roots get around it?

The attached photos show the situation. The bottom of the drainage ditch is roughly the level of the base ground that the tree grew in. The septic lines start directly under the edge of the canopy on he opposite side of the ditch.

I had several of these trees on the lot. It was a tree farm before. I donated many, kept many, and cut down many. I have learned to hate them as much as I love them due to the knees. I want to keep this one since it is so big and nice but I'm not going to let t ruin a $15k septic either.

Any thoughts on this situation are appreciated. Thank you.

I was under the impression that the knees only come with very wet and swampy conditions.

 

[bpatrick1983]

Bald Cypress will put up knees when it is growing where the soil is saturated or flooded often. It's some kind of exagerated response to low oxygen... the roots need oxygen and this odd adaptation to growing in swamp land seems to be how the tree deals with it. Here in Nebraska, they don't do that when planted as an ornamental/lawn specimen.

My guess is that the ever-present water from the drip irrigation field close by the tree is making it do this. Bald Cypress have a huge root structure, easily 2 or 3 times the canopy diameter, often more. They're usually shallow, but I've never seen them surface or form knees in this part of the country. I suspect that you might have good luck with root barrier. The new root growth will probably all be heading closer to the surface, and the trees are very tolerant of root disturbance by virtue of having plenty of them. They do tend to seek out water in drier climates, and are pretty adept at finding it. Mine survived 3 drought years in a row with no ill effects, on a property that didn't have running water to irrigate with during that time... it didn't grow much those years, but it didn't die, either. I agree with you, they are beautiful trees. I hope you can solve your problems without removing it.

Do you have any photos of yours?