Safety is No Accident

[Hawk Pilot]

I have been a member for about a week now and really like this site... lot's of great information here.

I have been around this business since I was 12 years old and cutting timber and pulp wood since I was 15. I cut wood by myself and that's a No No but I was only child and my Dad worked away. Later, I joined the Army and flew chopper's and that's risky business too.

My Message:

Farming, Cutting Tree's, Sawmills, Trucking the Wood and all these related duties rank in the Top Ten of the most Dangerous Profession's and that's a Fact jack !

Reading over the cause's of some of the accident's (listed here) are wide spread. I will list some of them and add a few more of my own for a Head's Up List for the Reader !

Cause of Accident(s)

Failure to Plan Out Your Job -- just doing thing's without fore thought and placing yourself and other's in harm's way... No Planning... the fate of having a accident is on it's way to You.

Operating Equipment beyond normal limit's -- chains,cable breaking and flying objects, roll over, being crushed, etc. .

Not Checking Your Equipment or Using it Properly -- Daily checks for lines fraying, weakened belts that are frayed, using chains and ropes, hooks and safety rig that has been over stressed and weakened. Not wearing your equipment and not buckled in. Thrown out when your seat belt was left loose (not worn) and crushed.

Working Tried or Sick and Not Clear Headed, Working with a So So Attitude -- We feel compelled to got to work when it would be best to stay at home. We Work on the Job and Not clear headed. We have done this job .. thousand's of times and it's no big deal.. until we are hurt and/ or killed or the direct cause to injuring/ killing someone else.

Working in Bad Weather -- We owe & owe so off to work we go. However, their are days when we should back off and go to the house/ shop. It's too windy, ice or sleet, heavy snow, etc. . These are the type of days that are best spent at the shop/ home area. Best spent servicing equipment, doing maint. and Avoid Trouble and live to work another day.

Proper Training and Acquired Knowledge -- If you're Not Sure of what you're doing...Stop ! In the next few second's, you may screw up and injure yourself or other's. Always's be in the high 90% of knowing what your doing. Don't just wing it and see what happen's ! Your chance's of injury are way off the scale of (risk assessment) injury and it's just a matter of time. If you don't know ask and get the proper training.

Getting Distracted -- We all have cell phones and all types of distraction's that will take your mind off what you're doing. Try to keep away from being distracted. If you are distracted, make sure you know 100% where you were at the time and Not Forgetting anything (distracted).

Lot's more but the main ones that I could think of (off the cuff). Feel Free to Add Your Own Safety Tips.

Safety is No Accident and Be Careful Out There !

Happy Holiday's,

Avery

Sorry to be Blunt is Not in the Interest of Safety. I am a Safey Officer and a working one, and in all types of weather conditions. Bad Weather is Weather that is Extreme Weather in this Example i.e. too Windy, Ice, Sleet, Heavy Snow Conditions. If You need to go out and work in Extreme Weather Condition's that's your business but High Risk is the Result i.e. cutting in high winds, ice and sleet is considered risky by most folks that are in the business. Why Point out different example's that were not written down when the invite was there for everyone to point out Safety Issue's in the Sprit of Safety. This post was about the overall awareness to Help to Prevent Acciden't (for All Level's of Expereince). Taking the Easy way out (not working) is Not the Answer when You have Extreme Weather to Consider. It's About Working Safetly in Day to day Weather but Not in " Extreme & Bad Weather " ! Work on maintenace items and then go out after the Main Part of Bad Weather has passed and Get'R Done.

Again, it's Not about Working in Weather, It's working in Bad Weather... Ice, Sleet, High Winds, Heavy Snows (considered extreme weather conditions). Some refer to these conditions as weather that's Not Fit for Man or Beast to be Working In !

Avery

 

[beowulf343]

Working Tried or Sick and Not Clear Headed, Working with a So So Attitude -- We feel compelled to got to work when it would be best to stay at home. We Work on the Job and Not clear headed. We have done this job .. thousand's of times and it's no big deal.. until we are hurt and/ or killed or the direct cause to injuring/ killing someone else.

Working in Bad Weather -- We owe & owe so off to work we go. However, their are days when we should back off and go to the house/ shop. It's too windy, ice or sleet, heavy snow, etc. . These are the type of days that are best spent at the shop/ home area. Best spent servicing equipment, doing maint. and Avoid Trouble and live to work another day.

I'm going to be blunt, i'm tired of hearing this mealy mouthed, warmed over safety crap. I know all this, most of us in the business know this. I don't need someone who doesn't do tree work for a living, telling me how to be safe. I also don't entirely agree with the two "safety precautions" above. If you are sick with something serious, fine, stay home. If you have a little head cold, suck it up. Staying home for a week while your nose stops running will get you fired on a lot of tree crews. And as for the bad weather, is there a single tree man who hasn't done work in bad weather on storm? It sometimes is a part of the job.

Ok, sorry, that may have been a bit harsh. I'm just tired of seeing guys like you thinking they are coming up with something profound about safety, when the majority of it is just common sense that every treeman and groundie know, and know very well. I've attended safety meetings twice a week for the last fifteen years, meetings run by treemen for treemen. Meetings run by guys who have had their face cut, or or missing a hand, or have seen first hand the result of unsafe work habits. I've seen guys fall out of trees, my grandpa cut his hand off, my first foreman was still having problems with his face that had been cut open with a saw before i was born-these are more valuable lessons than a guy who just decides to write down some common sense safety precautions. If you want to get into safety, how about some ways of being safe when you have to work in the dark, or are working in snow so bad you can't see the ground. This is your problem, treework isn't always done in perfect conditions, or with perfect equipment, and you can't just go home when things aren't perfect. How about some tips on being safe even when the deck is stacked against you instead of taking the easy way out and just not doing the job at all.

 

[Toddppm]

I like that list. We should all only work when it's sunny, 80 and we're in a good mood.

Let's all move to San Diego and live with Jeff!

 

[beowulf343]

Sorry to be Blunt is Not in the Interest of Safety. I am a Safey Officer and a working one, and in all types of weather conditions. Bad Weather is Weather that is Extreme Weather in this Example i.e. too Windy, Ice, Sleet, Heavy Snow Conditions. If You need to go out and work in Extreme Weather Condition's that's your business but High Risk is the Result i.e. cutting in high winds, ice and sleet is considered risky by most folks that are in the business. Why Point out different example's that were not written down when the invite was there for everyone to point out Safety Issue's in the Sprit of Safety. This post was about the overall awareness to Help to Prevent Acciden't (for All Level's of Expereince). Taking the Easy way out (not working) is Not the Answer when You have Extreme Weather to Consider. It's About Working Safetly in Day to day Weather but Not in " Extreme & Bad Weather " ! Work on maintenace items and then go out after the Main Part of Bad Weather has passed and Get'R Done.

Again, it's Not about Working in Weather, It's working in Bad Weather... Ice, Sleet, High Winds, Heavy Snows (considered extreme weather conditions). Some refer to these conditions as weather that's Not Fit for Man or Beast to be Working In !

Avery

Everyone and their dog in this business knows the safety guidelines you set down. However, while not a lot of our work is done in bad weather, sometimes it has to be. Since you are an experienced safety officer in all types of weather conditions, how about some not so well known safety tips that can save lives when the weather is bad. I would be more than happy to hear safe climbing techniques when four inches of ice covers every tree, safe trimming techniques by flashlight, how to spot groundies when you can't see the ground. And yes, i have learned some tricks over the years working in exactly these types of situations. Would i have liked to go home and stay home, you bet your ass.
I really would like some advice other than stay home and wait until the weather clears. You know, in 98, it took a week for the ice to melt and another month before temps got warm enough to melt all the snow where we were in quebec. So we should have just sat around for five weeks before doing anything?

 

[Hawk Pilot]

The Safety Tip(s) Were Not Written for Your Specific Job

Mr. Beowulf

I don't understand that.. you don't understand that this post was Not Written to cover your exact job and level of experience. I see that you've worked in extreme weather and all types of weather condition's and lived to tell about it. I take it that your'e very good and careful and have worked in this business most of your life.

When you go to the Safety meeting's, the folk's giving the presentation are wasting a lot of your time. They really don't know what they are talking about and you're there because it's manatory. You want to hear about how to do your job a better way and safer too (those safety folks don't know nothing that's of value to you).

You asked me to give you pointer's and I don't know what you do (job wise). My hearted effort today was toward's the common good of spreading the word of the (some) Do's and Don't ! My Advice was Generalized Tip's and Directed toward Anyone (the reader) and at any level... of expereince to Read and Heed !

I did not expect someone to attack the good of this effort and do their own comparison of Experience (since I've Not Posted here before). I've been in the business for 53 years and hurt once. I was distracted by a guy behind me, he shouted something and I turned my head at the wrong time. I was ground guiding a D-8 to park. The D-8 track hit a shipping rack and it fell and hit me. I loss the tip of my finger. I have a good track record (no injuries), just minor wound's and scratch's over the years.

I've worked in the worst of weather because we had bills to pay to keep things going. The days that were really (severe weather) bad weather, were mostly losers, they ended up as a day lost and damaged equipment (more often than not). So, we should have did routine maint. but ended up fixing things that were not broke before. Try working on the mountain in ice and sleet and frozen ground with tracked equipment, its tricky.

I wanted this Post to be taken for the Value that it was Intended and not taken out of text and sharp shoot it. I thought that the Most Expereinced Reader would Share their Personal Experience's of What Type of Conditions's (unsafe) They Worked In. How they Countered these Problem's and made it through the day (safely).

If you want to PM me, I'd be happy to discuss anything you'd like. I don't use this forum or any other to discuss my personallity issue's. My interest is the common good of people. I have interviewed or know 100's of folks that were injured and talked to the witness(s) of the ones that saw the accident (they were killed). Mr. Beowulf, the answer was always the same, they screwed up and made a mistake or muti mistakes and real sorry now. They are in wheel chair's or quads now and their life is over as they know it.

Please share some of your experience and tell us the Do Not's when your out working in Extreme (Bad) Weather. How you counter the High Winds and Lot's of Ice, Sleet and Heavy Snow. Please share your knowledge.. and how to live through it. What extra steps you made to work as safe as you could in these extreme conditions and your groundee too. I'm guessing... you may work for a utility company and forced to work out there when the power lines are hit by tree's and the weather is very extreme and not commom place for most of us.

This is the information that would help anyone that's going to work in Extreme Weather and High Risk Condition's !


Avery

 

[woodguy105]

i agree. Also the op needs to hang around a bit longer before delivering a sermon.

+1

 

[beowulf343]

I don't understand that.. you don't understand that this post was Not Written to cover your exact job and level of experience. I see that you've worked in extreme weather and all types of weather condition's and lived to tell about it. I take it that your'e very good and careful and have worked in this business most of your life.

Hmm, maybe that is what's throwing me off, i wasn't expecting you to cover my exact job, but on a tree forum i was expecting a safety officer to cover maybe a couple, more specific to tree work, ways of preventing accidents. I see nothing about saw safety, very little about height safety, nothing about checking the safety of the actual tree, nothing even as simple as the safe way to lift heavy loads.

When you go to the Safety meeting's, the folk's giving the presentation are wasting a lot of your time. They really don't know what they are talking about and you're there because it's manatory. You want to hear about how to do your job a better way and safer too (those safety folks don't know nothing that's of value to you).

That's not what i'm saying at all. I'm saying that YOUR safety list has not a ton of value for me. Our company safety guy is actually excellent. We have a meeting of the whole outfit once a week where he covers more general things since we have guys there with experience ranging from first day to forty years. Then he has a separate meeting with each individual crew every week. These meetings cover the more specific stuff depending on the crew's experience and their specialty. For example, my crew goes out with a crane every day so he more often covers advanced crane safety issues with us than he does for a crew that never uses one.

You asked me to give you pointer's and I don't know what you do (job wise). My hearted effort today was toward's the common good of spreading the word of the (some) Do's and Don't ! My Advice was Generalized Tip's and Directed toward Anyone (the reader) and at any level... of expereince to Read and Heed !

I did not expect someone to attack the good of this effort and do their own comparison of Experience (since I've Not Posted here before). I've been in the business for 53 years and hurt once. I was distracted by a guy behind me, he shouted something and I turned my head at the wrong time. I was ground guiding a D-8 to park. The D-8 track hit a shipping rack and it fell and hit me. I loss the tip of my finger. I have a good track record (no injuries), just minor wound's and scratch's over the years.

So you've been in the tree business for 53 years?
Ok, fine, you are making a good effort. But once a month someone comes up with a good effort almost identical to this. The top part of this forum is dedicated to tree workers, something more specific to the tree industry is appreciated.

If you want to PM me, I'd be happy to discuss anything you'd like. I don't use this forum or any other to discuss my personallity issue's. My interest is the common good of people. I have interviewed or know 100's of folks that were injured and talked to the witness(s) of the ones that saw the accident (they were killed). Mr. Beowulf, the answer was always the same, they screwed up and made a mistake or muti mistakes and real sorry now. They are in wheel chair's or quads now and their life is over as they know it.

So your advice after all these interviews is to wear my seatbelt, that will keep my finger from being cut off when i accidentally drop my polesaw out of a tree and unthinkingly try to catch it. These are the kinds of accidents i'm talking about.

Please share some of your experience and tell us the Do Not's when your out working in Extreme (Bad) Weather. How you counter the High Winds and Lot's of Ice, Sleet and Heavy Snow. Please share your knowledge.. and how to live through it. What extra steps you made to work as safe as you could in these extreme conditions and your groundee too. I'm guessing... you may work for a utility company and forced to work out there when the power lines are hit by tree's and the weather is very extreme and not commom place for most of us.

This is the information that would help anyone that's going to work in Extreme Weather and High Risk Condition's !

This is actually not a bad idea. Let me think about this for a couple days, come up with the most common issues in this type of weather and i'll type something up.
I'm not a "safety officer" with 53 years of experience, however. I was kind of hoping you had some tips since you were so eager to share.
And it is not really that uncommon around here to work in storm. I haven't done row in over ten years, yet we still go out many times every winter.
How about a more specific questions then, (btw, i'm a tree climber.)
Scenario, couple weeks ago got a call from a dpw. Pine tree near a busy intersection uprooted, leaned hard into another pine that was close enough to the intersection. It was dark, snowing hard which caused the first uproot, and was the cause for concern-more snow adding more weight to both trees. The intersection was shut down but people were trying to get home. As a 53 year safety officer veteran, what safety issues should i be aware of in this situation? (Oddly, about the most dangerous thing ended up having to watch for the firemen who were directing traffic and liked to wander over to jaw with my groundies.)
Oh, here's a good one and even a recent thread about it. I walk up to an ash with a heavy lean, what should i be aware of to stay safe?
But these are the kind of situations i'm trying to explain to you, and for us anyway, they aren't a rarity. I personally don't think you have 53 years in the tree business. WE WORK OUTSIDE FOR A LIVING-the weather is rarely perfect, heck, we'll have more days with snow and wind for the next couple months than days that are sunny, not to mention that it's dark by five.

 

[Hawk Pilot]

It's a Generalized Safety Tip for All to Read and Heed !

You NEED Not spend a lot of time explaining your personal thought's and what You get out of this thread. This post never offered instruction or any specific technique for you to follow. Don't connect me to your work place where they don't have a answer for all your need's to operate safe out there. I strongly suggest that you go to management and tell them how stupid they are in safety department. They (safety) should be giving you operational classes and your're getting generalized safety tips instead.

I thought the generalized approach (here) was just fine and not a lot of folk's know or follow basic safety rules on a daily basis; or proper training, common sense never apply's.. too lost to begin with. Also that's why they're in wheel chairs and bed ridden, just sad and most accident's should never have happened. I only listed a few of the safety tips that came to mind and said that in black & white. I'm dam sure my dog's don't know that much about safety because they won't pay attention to their daily safety brief (little jokee here).

Good News for All... Your thinking about adding your word's of wisdom to this post. I'm Interested in seeing how you work out there and how You Avoid Injury when the Weather is Bad (high winds, ice and heavy snows, extreme weather conditions).

This is the type of information that would speak volumes to the less experienced reader. I never offered magic safety tips. When the weather is extreme.. it's just Nut's to be out there when I don't have to be. However, that's my personal work experience, damaging my equipment or added body/ life risk is risky business and counter productive for most of us !

Avery

 

[beowulf343]

A safety officer with 53 years of experience and not one single safety tip for either scenario (other than don't work outside in snow.)

But you are right, safety is an important issue, so the next time someone takes the time to copy the safety sticker on the side of their table saw and post it here, i will give them my undivided support.

 

[Hawk Pilot]

Comprehension Skills and the Ability to Read & Understand

I have Not Spent my Life Time in Safety for 53 years. I have made Safety a Daily Event in my life and I'm alive today because of my safety discipline. I never said I've been a Safety Officer for 53 years. I have been in & around this business for 53 years. I wish you'd quit showing your lack of comprehension and/ or reading skills. I gave the forum a Generalized Safety Information List. This was a good start for the bulk of the folks that are new in the business or just lack basic safety understanding/ principals. Why twist my word's or the intent of my post to fit your need's and desire's. Are you a politician, the type of person that twist's and turns ? If you have some burning need to get a specific safety tip, then go into work tomorrow and ask away.

I could offer some more specific type of safety tip's but it's Not the Intent of this post and understand that ! This post is Not about You or Me, try to grasp that thought ! I was waiting to see what the response may be and add my personal experience's as the thread progressed.

If you want to share some of your specific experience(s) with the folks here, do it ! Don't say that you know something or may say something... sort of weak and look's & smells like BS. So start writing and sharing your vast amount of knowledge.

For the Last Time, this post is for the Reader and apply's primarily to the less experienced person. Read the little list I wrote and take from it what you can. If your so experienced and it mean's nothing to You.. then you're golden.

If you can add anything that is more specific and have a good story (safety example), then, please add it and contribute to this post.

If your going to cry and twist & turn and do that all that... it say's a lot and speaks volumes. If you have some sort of difference with me, then PM me. Otherwise, why show your true self to the world when it's not too smart ?


Avery

 

[jefflovstrom]

I like that list. We should all only work when it's sunny, 80 and we're in a good mood.

Let's all move to San Diego and live with Jeff!

Too funny Todd! Actually, we are dealing with the 'pine-apple express', lot's of rain. I would rather work in it than drive in it.
Jeff CTSP

 

[Gologit]

I agree. Also the OP needs to hang around a bit longer before delivering a sermon.

Yup. He's preaching to the choir. This kind of stuff might go over better in the Homeowner forum.

Or maybe Lawnsite.

 

[SpiralAcacia]

Isn't the gentleman only trying to p1$$ you off?
Could be good intentions - you know where to these pave the road...!

SA

 

[jefflovstrom]

Isn't the gentleman only trying to p1$$ you off?
Could be good intentions - you know where to these pave the road...!

SA

Sounds like 'beer-thirty' in the East!
Jeff

 

[rarefish383]

I like that list. We should all only work when it's sunny, 80 and we're in a good mood.

Let's all move to San Diego and live with Jeff!

What are you talking about? Those are the days I call out and go fishing. If I'm sick and it's nasty out, I make sure I go to work, just to make sure every one else is just as misserable as me.

I'm sure the OP's intentions are good, but he doesn't know how many times we've seen and heard most of this safety stuff. I firmly believe the only way to be safe is to grow up being taught safety from your first breath. I've been out of tree work for a good while now. I work full time at UPS and have been a Hazardous Materials Responder, Safety Com member, Shop Steward, and Safety Trainer. I'm telling you, it's like beating your head on a brick wall to get people to look up as the walk under over head belts. There are over 1000 employees in my building and I bet I'm the only one that looks up, and I have seen 100 lb boxes of bolts fall off the belts before. Safety is a hard one, you preach and preach and hope some one listens, Joe.

 

[jefflovstrom]

Not sure if we are comparing apples to apples.
Jeff

 

[rarefish383]

Jeff, you may be right with my UPS to Tree Work comps not being apples to apples. But, they are not apples to oranges. The only reason I look up walking under moving belts is because I was taught to look up walking under any tree, hangers, dead stobs, leaners, what ever kind of widow maker out there. The most important thing in safety is awareness, and it's hard to teach. Like the first time a groundie hears a climber yell headache. He thinks it's funny, untill someone grabs him and snatches him out of the way. Headache was the first term we taught every new hire, and probaly the last one they learned. Actually, by the end of their first day they knew it, but you still worry about it. We never had a serious injury and never lost a man. My uncle did. He had a neighbors son working. Forget how old, but out of school. He was on a low roof sweeping off saw dust and blacked out and fell breaking his neck. He was a qudraplegic after the accident. That's one of the reasons I let Dads business go. I didn't want to have to explain to someone why their loved one wasn't coming home. Even if we joke about it sometines, it is serious. Thanks guys, for lettin me ramble, Joe.

 

[jefflovstrom]

Jeff, you may be right with my UPS to Tree Work comps not being apples to apples. But, they are not apples to oranges. The only reason I look up walking under moving belts is because I was taught to look up walking under any tree, hangers, dead stobs, leaners, what ever kind of widow maker out there. The most important thing in safety is awareness, and it's hard to teach. Like the first time a groundie hears a climber yell headache. He thinks it's funny, untill someone grabs him and snatches him out of the way. Headache was the first term we taught every new hire, and probaly the last one they learned. Actually, by the end of their first day they knew it, but you still worry about it. We never had a serious injury and never lost a man. My uncle did. He had a neighbors son working. Forget how old, but out of school. He was on a low roof sweeping off saw dust and blacked out and fell breaking his neck. He was a qudraplegic after the accident. That's one of the reasons I let Dads business go. I didn't want to have to explain to someone why their loved one wasn't coming home. Even if we joke about it sometines, it is serious. Thanks guys, for lettin me ramble, Joe.

No problem, you go, Rambling Joe!!!!
Jeff

 

[Toddppm]

What are you talking about? Those are the days I call out and go fishing. Joe.

Sounds like the boys in Florida. I hear they can't get to work if it's going to be good fishing.
Went out on a charter boat a couple days during the week when I was down there one time and was a couple of young guys on the boat both days that skipped work:biggrinbounce2:

 

[boltonranger]

Now I have to disagree.

Firstly - I liked the post. I liked the spirit in was written in.
AS to the comment "this belongs in the homeowner forum" - I disagree.
It's real good where it is. In fact I'll go so far as to say it's those among us that have the most experience that need to hear it...but of course no one makes us read a post - we choose to read it

As to the comment preaching to the choir:
"Preaching to the choir is preaching to the people who are the warmest and most receptive to the message." They "amen" the loudest and respond with enthusiasm.

The poor OP was certainly NOT preaching to the choir. Not with a response like that. Cut the guy a little slack.

My read of his post was he was trying to help anyone who needed reminding.
It helped me. If it didn't help you, what's the harm?
Good post Avery. Happy New Year.
-br