Shindaiwa Chain Saws
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tundraotto
Addicted to ArboristSite
walt - i really like the inside of your posts but sometimes you just speak out off your a__, you show me a climber who does it for a living and uses a solid bar...they dont walt...lami bars are a lot cheaper and bar longevity isnt a factor as the bar is bent or worn or the users dead before the bar reaches the end of its useful life...hope you know more about filing racing chain than arborist work since that is still very much in the minds of all of us....and the advantages of the shindaiwa compared to the popular saws on the market - since the price is not one of them. i know you can surprise me!
Walt Galer
ArboristSite Operative
Howdy Tundraotto,
Careful there old boy. How do you think the lowprofile extended pitch chains were developed? I used several arborists as field test user's on products that otherwise would not have very useful field evaluations, as consumers simply do not use up the product in a reasonable period of time, by anything but gross abuse.
I found a few guys that prefered bars that resist bending, and with more durable rails, especially a factor in winter emergency work. The weight factor with such a small bar is very minimal, and the balance effect, actually favorable. You are correct however, most guys prefer to donate the equipment, and most crews seem to have at least some fellows who specialize in same.
When I conducted a school for Asplunk (sp?) in New England, they found that the filing info and suggestions lowered their equipment cost significantly as well as decreasing the accident rate. (The sample study was a bit small to prove the accident point, but it was highly likely). I never did hear if they went on with the idea with their other area crews, but I'll bet they at least made it a point to give some additional instruction.
In the other direction it was bucket crews in Canada, around Langley, BC that taught ME an interesting lesson about a design consideration for reducing roughness on these low profile chains, when I tested the idea of using an Oregon design tiestrap opposite essentially a Carlton design cutter (Windsor 50R). This one proved it was the cutter part bottom length that is the important consideration in smoothness on these small chains. It was a heck of a surprise at the time. (And an extreemly useful bit of information).
The pros up in the bucket are a very professional group and an important segment of the market. I did not let it go unnoticed!
Regards,
Walt Galer
Careful there old boy. How do you think the lowprofile extended pitch chains were developed? I used several arborists as field test user's on products that otherwise would not have very useful field evaluations, as consumers simply do not use up the product in a reasonable period of time, by anything but gross abuse.
I found a few guys that prefered bars that resist bending, and with more durable rails, especially a factor in winter emergency work. The weight factor with such a small bar is very minimal, and the balance effect, actually favorable. You are correct however, most guys prefer to donate the equipment, and most crews seem to have at least some fellows who specialize in same.
When I conducted a school for Asplunk (sp?) in New England, they found that the filing info and suggestions lowered their equipment cost significantly as well as decreasing the accident rate. (The sample study was a bit small to prove the accident point, but it was highly likely). I never did hear if they went on with the idea with their other area crews, but I'll bet they at least made it a point to give some additional instruction.
In the other direction it was bucket crews in Canada, around Langley, BC that taught ME an interesting lesson about a design consideration for reducing roughness on these low profile chains, when I tested the idea of using an Oregon design tiestrap opposite essentially a Carlton design cutter (Windsor 50R). This one proved it was the cutter part bottom length that is the important consideration in smoothness on these small chains. It was a heck of a surprise at the time. (And an extreemly useful bit of information).
The pros up in the bucket are a very professional group and an important segment of the market. I did not let it go unnoticed!
Regards,
Walt Galer
latest 488 find
Just ran across this while browsing. http://www.farmequipmentunlimited.com/youngkubota/shindaiw.htm Good Luck
Just ran across this while browsing. http://www.farmequipmentunlimited.com/youngkubota/shindaiw.htm Good Luck
sritzau
ArboristSite Member
Armyguy, thanks for the tip-off RE: where to get a Shindaiwa for slighly less $. Walt, can you recommend where to pick up the bar and chain set-up you talked about in your earlier posts?
Thanks,
Steve
Thanks,
Steve
Steve, let me know how you make out. I'm trying to get momma to let me spend a few dollars. She thinks you shouldn't need more than one saw. She wouldn't believe all of the addicts found here. Well, good luck and be careful.
Walt Galer
ArboristSite Operative
Howdy,
The best bar is to get a Windsor Mini Pro if you can find one. This is a smaller lighter edition of the the regular professional Windsor Speed Tip, with no shortcuts. There is no other narrow, lightweigt, solid bar in the industry to my knowledge, made with a replaceable and rail hardened nose assembly. In otherwords, nothing even close.
The chain is your pick. Some guys firmly believe in LG for the 3/8 chisel chain, and I find Stihl plenty good chain. I'm not up to date on Cartlton. In .325 I would positively recommend Windsor 50/58J chisel. No other .325 chisel is even close to my knowledge. Again, I am not up to date on Carlton.
Does it sound like I need to be doing a serious comparison of Carlton chisels vs. the competition?
I would need to do an initial length measurement, an out of box cutting speed comparison, an as-filed to factory specs performance comparison, a stay sharp test, and then an ending performance comparison. After this, another length measurement to determine stretch, or elongation per hole after use. Costs too much to do for laughs on my own! (And I don't think anyone in the industry is serious enough to want to fund such a project anymore! After all, it's a great bull???? eleminator). Until I have taken chains through this series, I hate to make very many recomendations.
Regards,
Walt Galer
The best bar is to get a Windsor Mini Pro if you can find one. This is a smaller lighter edition of the the regular professional Windsor Speed Tip, with no shortcuts. There is no other narrow, lightweigt, solid bar in the industry to my knowledge, made with a replaceable and rail hardened nose assembly. In otherwords, nothing even close.
The chain is your pick. Some guys firmly believe in LG for the 3/8 chisel chain, and I find Stihl plenty good chain. I'm not up to date on Cartlton. In .325 I would positively recommend Windsor 50/58J chisel. No other .325 chisel is even close to my knowledge. Again, I am not up to date on Carlton.
Does it sound like I need to be doing a serious comparison of Carlton chisels vs. the competition?
I would need to do an initial length measurement, an out of box cutting speed comparison, an as-filed to factory specs performance comparison, a stay sharp test, and then an ending performance comparison. After this, another length measurement to determine stretch, or elongation per hole after use. Costs too much to do for laughs on my own! (And I don't think anyone in the industry is serious enough to want to fund such a project anymore! After all, it's a great bull???? eleminator). Until I have taken chains through this series, I hate to make very many recomendations.
Regards,
Walt Galer
high life man
ArboristSite Member
rbtree,
When I bought my 020, My dealer, who sells both Husky and Stihl, subtly steered me away from the 335. He claimed that they'd had alot of warranty work done on the 335's they sold, and specifically mentioned oiler problems. This was about a year and a half ago.
Did you experience the same? Has husky now solved the problems with the saw? If so, is there anything cosmetically different with the brand new ones that could differentiate it from a unit that's been hanging around in the store for two years?
If it weren't for the dealer's advice, I'dve bought the Husky. @ $100 cheaper, and a better overall desighn I thought.
When I bought my 020, My dealer, who sells both Husky and Stihl, subtly steered me away from the 335. He claimed that they'd had alot of warranty work done on the 335's they sold, and specifically mentioned oiler problems. This was about a year and a half ago.
Did you experience the same? Has husky now solved the problems with the saw? If so, is there anything cosmetically different with the brand new ones that could differentiate it from a unit that's been hanging around in the store for two years?
If it weren't for the dealer's advice, I'dve bought the Husky. @ $100 cheaper, and a better overall desighn I thought.
rbtree
Addicted to ArboristSite
hey, Walt,
I sure didn't like the tone of tundra's response to you for sure either. I have gleaned much from your insightful knowledge and experience which you have shared with us here. Many thanks.
However, us climbing arborists want the lightest combo possible. I was tickled pink when the 7.5 lb husky 335 came out. We had been using the 9.3 lb 020S and the underpowered 7.3 lb. Echo 3400. I have a 16" Oregon solid replaceable tip bar, which i like, but never use it due to the close to 1 lb weight difference. The laminated bars will easily give me one year of service til they are too worn or the tip flies part.
******
The 35 ton crane picked a 91 foot, 700 board foot doug fir stick today!! He picked it eight feet from one house and laid it down 12 feet from the neighbor's.
Longest ever for us. Next tree, the lower 44 foot log, 580 board feet, weighed 8000 pounds. So that he could get to the top log at 94 feet, he had put out an extended fixed section that reduced his lift capacity to 9000 pounds. Close call!! The middle piece weighed 5000 lb, if I recall. Total weight of 9 trees, including several small ones, was 52000 lb; 4100 board feet or so. The other truck load weighed 40000 lb from 2 big firs and a couple of lousy hemlock pieces! Now that was timber!!
Rog
I sure didn't like the tone of tundra's response to you for sure either. I have gleaned much from your insightful knowledge and experience which you have shared with us here. Many thanks.
However, us climbing arborists want the lightest combo possible. I was tickled pink when the 7.5 lb husky 335 came out. We had been using the 9.3 lb 020S and the underpowered 7.3 lb. Echo 3400. I have a 16" Oregon solid replaceable tip bar, which i like, but never use it due to the close to 1 lb weight difference. The laminated bars will easily give me one year of service til they are too worn or the tip flies part.
******
The 35 ton crane picked a 91 foot, 700 board foot doug fir stick today!! He picked it eight feet from one house and laid it down 12 feet from the neighbor's.
Longest ever for us. Next tree, the lower 44 foot log, 580 board feet, weighed 8000 pounds. So that he could get to the top log at 94 feet, he had put out an extended fixed section that reduced his lift capacity to 9000 pounds. Close call!! The middle piece weighed 5000 lb, if I recall. Total weight of 9 trees, including several small ones, was 52000 lb; 4100 board feet or so. The other truck load weighed 40000 lb from 2 big firs and a couple of lousy hemlock pieces! Now that was timber!!
Rog
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rbtree
Addicted to ArboristSite
sritzau,
Before you buy that 357, check out the Husky 335XPT at Alamia.com. 1.5 pounds lighter, .4 hp and a lot of rpm more. $349 I think. Then send it to Walker's for ~.4 more hp.
Absolutely no comparison, the Husky beats the heck out of it. 357 may last a bit longer, but my fist 335 is still chuggin' along after 4-5 years!
All the early problems solved with the saw, now I'm quite happy with them.
The 488 is a sweet saw and a heck of a deal, but not the 357. Especially when a 3400 Echo is about $260 and probably the same power.
Roger
Before you buy that 357, check out the Husky 335XPT at Alamia.com. 1.5 pounds lighter, .4 hp and a lot of rpm more. $349 I think. Then send it to Walker's for ~.4 more hp.
Absolutely no comparison, the Husky beats the heck out of it. 357 may last a bit longer, but my fist 335 is still chuggin' along after 4-5 years!
All the early problems solved with the saw, now I'm quite happy with them.
The 488 is a sweet saw and a heck of a deal, but not the 357. Especially when a 3400 Echo is about $260 and probably the same power.
Roger
rbtree
Addicted to ArboristSite
highlifeman,
I have three of the old, problem fraught 335's. I have one of the first sold on the west coast. We made 'em work and they still do.
In fact, one of the three was a screamer, faster cutting than the three or four 020T's I pitted it against. At least 10% faster than my new one, that is going up to Walker's for a hop up.
The old hot one has lost some compression and consistency. I'm going to break it down and replace the piston and rings if the cylinder is OK. The seals and bearings should be fine, it has no air leaks. It has been used pretty hard for about 2 years, pretty darn good, I'd say. The other two never cut as well as it did, but certainly OK.
New saws date to about mid 2000, see the mfr date below the bar mount.
I have three of the old, problem fraught 335's. I have one of the first sold on the west coast. We made 'em work and they still do.
In fact, one of the three was a screamer, faster cutting than the three or four 020T's I pitted it against. At least 10% faster than my new one, that is going up to Walker's for a hop up.
The old hot one has lost some compression and consistency. I'm going to break it down and replace the piston and rings if the cylinder is OK. The seals and bearings should be fine, it has no air leaks. It has been used pretty hard for about 2 years, pretty darn good, I'd say. The other two never cut as well as it did, but certainly OK.
New saws date to about mid 2000, see the mfr date below the bar mount.
Hayubusa
ArboristSite Lurker
Hi Che, good to hear from you. I too had to "unlurk" since I was just cruising through catching up on the new posts. Welcome Aboard!
If your dealer is anything like the one local Shindaiwa dealer, you might as well order on-line from Armyguy`s posted link. Commercial Cutters used to carry Shindaiwa but they recently threw in the towel and picked up Echo in the trade. After first spotting this post today, I went to the remaining local dealer and inquired about the 488. They don`t stock any, or any parts for that matter. Didn`t know whether or not it comes with a bar when I said I wouldn`t want the laminated bar, had to look in the catalog to figure this out. I said O.K., how much to upgrade the bar, or how much off if I don`t take the bar. He says, "what do you expect me to do with the bar the saw comes with?" When I asked about the price, the owner of the place looked up the MSRP of $375(funny, Armyguy`s link says $369) and offered to order one for me for $370 + 7% sales tax. I told him no go, I can buy on-line delivered, no tax for $349. Guy just about blew a gasket about how Shindaiwa, ala Stihl, has promised no undercutting or on-line sales to protect their "servicing dealers". Anybody else see the irony here? I don`t mean to bad mouth this guy either, I`ve dealt with him before through his construction equipment rental business and never had a complaint. I told him if he can beat the $349 delivered price by a nice margin I could probably sell a half dozen for him. He`s going to check with his distributor and get back to me. If anything comes of this I`ll let you folks know. Russ
I get a kick out of this. Before I start I have nothing against the dealer mentioned above, he has to make a living. Now, I'm sure I'll get yelled at for saying this here but I'm going to anyway - waaayyy to much is made of "dealer support" in my opinion, I saved $80 when I bought my 357xp from Baileys 3 years ago when they still sold Husqvarna compared to what my local dealer wanted. 3 years I use the hell out of that saw and not once have I needed squat from my local dealer. This day in age if I needed a part I'll order it online in which case the part will arrive at my house quicker than I could find time to get to the local dealer. I can do this and I know very little about saws compared to 95% of the guys on here. I like to keep my money in town as much as anyone else, but when it comes to chainsaws, local dealers can easily have their high schooler make a website for them and sell to locals and everyone else in the world. If you can save the money you worked for you owe it to yourself to do just that.
NEW Shindaiwa 488 saws for $300
For anyone interested in these rugged saws, a guy in Provo UT (about 40mi south of Salt Lake City) has a couple of brand new ones for sale. Apparently he bought three of them twelve years ago, thinking he would wear one out ever few years (ha). He's still using the first one... So he wants to sell the other two. Link below.
Classifieds for Utah, Idaho, and Wyoming | ksl.com
For anyone interested in these rugged saws, a guy in Provo UT (about 40mi south of Salt Lake City) has a couple of brand new ones for sale. Apparently he bought three of them twelve years ago, thinking he would wear one out ever few years (ha). He's still using the first one... So he wants to sell the other two. Link below.
Classifieds for Utah, Idaho, and Wyoming | ksl.com
