Side work

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clearance said:
Probably the same reason it is ok here, Nick if you have to ask at this point you haven't been paying attention.
Wasn't asking you, ace.
Climb020 said:
TreeCo do US all a favor and round up the illegals immagrants so most tree companys will have good work and good help. Hate it when customers put notes on the trees in spanish.
You're nuts. Back when I was 21 in 2004, people didn't say stuff like that. At any rate, I love working in Spanish! I just translated four pages of our meeting minutes into Spanish. :)
 
The simple reality is that tree service employees are always going to do "side work." Every industry out there has employees doing side work. Who wouldn't? You see that big money the company is pulling in and want some of that for yourself on the weekend. It would be hard to convince somebody not to go out and make their normal weekly salary in a single day.

Get over it.
 
Hey, who's arguing against side work?!? It's about the uninsured, incompetent ones stealing equipment.
 
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Nickrosis said:
Hey, who's arguing against side work?!? It's about the uninsured, incompetent ones stealing equipment.


Well, that was me at one point (hopefully never incompetent), so I can't condemn those guys. But now I'm trying to run my own legitimate arborist service and can appreciate the problem of competing with guys who aren't "playing by the rules." I just think they're always going to be there.
My boss let us check out tools, saws, and gear for side work. Bring a load of brush to the shop and run it through the chipper. I know one local service that lets its employees use trucks, chippers, and cranes on the weekends.
 
Treeguy020: should you do your own work on your own time? Absolutely. For many new, aspiring climbers it's your only recourse to gain the skills & gear necessary to be a top climber. I've worked for large, interstate residencial/commercial tree co.s, small res. tree co.s, utility r.o.w. tree co.s and finally for myself. I am now a humble civil servant, that makes me a 100 percent buzzy in terms of my arborculture career at this time, not at all a conflict since my current "paycheck" career is not in arborculture. My take is you use your own gear, bid appropriately, treat customers as you would like to be treated, stay within your ablility as much as possible, complete reputable work you can be proud of and don't directly compete against your boss by bidding on jobs in his/her backyard that they would normally bid on. You may need to get a few jobs under your belt to afford gear, all my initial proceeds went to gear I think, maybe some beer too.:givebeer: All of us treeguys are gadget hounds by nature aren't we??

As far as insurance, licenses, permits, etc..... do what's appropriate when you can. It's a Catch 22 for some here to suggest a new guy run right out to get ins. without actually having the income to get it.... I think there's a lot of green envy here and a despirate need to control lurking in this thread. In the end CYA(Cover Your Ass) because no one else will, if you're doing sporty T/Ds and taking in decent proceeds, by all means acquire insurance and do it right.

Every industry in this great country of ours has contractor guys doing side work, buzzies, cashies and whatever else you want to call it. Many times using the oldest form of commerce known to man, barter. I've done jobs for rent, equipment, commodities, beer and even motorcycles. That's what makes this country a great capitalistic society. Over control is for communists and socialists.

To paint all side workers or buzzies as crooks, vagabonds and general tree hackers is completely outrageous. I've done many side jobs were I had to "fix" or undo the work of overworked, hurried "professionals" and I remember being on that side too. Being pushed by a low balling sales-slug, who knows diddly squat 'bout climbing and being told not to interact with the customer period, even when the company is not meeting their expectations. I've found that not only are customers getting the work done cheaper by buzzing, but getting a higher standard of customer service as well when the crew is not being driven by the commision rate and high overhead nut clock. But let me not paint all the fine, professional tree co. owners/operators here with the same broad brush of criticism that they are spreading. I'm sure their companies complete good work, they work hard and treat their customers well, just wanted to give a view of the other side. There is a huge side benefit for company owners with their guys doing sides, they gain more experience than their tight time schedules allow for and their guys are likely to buy equipment they'll use on the company's time. Bottom line is, my time is my time and what I do with it is my business. Unless you want to pay me sit on my couch and watch March Madness on my time.:clap:
 
Worked for Asplundh for many years...always did side jobs, never used their equipment, never even bid a job on company time. Whenever I work for someone else, my time belongs to them...I sell it by the hour, if I am working on a side job on their time..I am stealing..The same would apply if I used their equipment on my time. I have never been a thief, and loathe the idea of one.
I have my insurance now, and my own business. I've had several emplyees that have worked the cash jobs on the weekends, but the same deal applies..never my equipment, and never on my time. There have been occasions when they have even asked me to help them on the weekends...it was kind of fun to NOT be the one in charge for awhile.
Right now I am in a sub-contract on a r.o.w. line. Drawn in the contract between the general contractor and myself is a self-interest pursuit clause that states we are in no ways limiting our business pursuits to this contract. As long as the needs of the contract are fulfilled we are free to build up our own business as we see fit, and have opportunity to do so.
So maybe I am out of place posting on this thread. I don't really have a soapbox to stand on.. like a few people here seem to. I am just an honest and hardworking old tree man..nothin' fancy, and kind of boring. But I thought if everybody else could weigh in on this..what the hell.
 
Nickrosis said:
It's begging the question. Aussie, why's that? What makes it okay?


r.o.w guys are the biggest single group in the tree industry earning the least.



companys hate r.o.w guys having a go in domestic tree work???anyone disagree haha
 
Anyone out there that thinks all of the owners are just raking it in, then calling people crooks for trimming their mom's trees on the weekend needs a reality check. Yes, big company ceo's rake it in, and even small companys that are well established. But for every one of them there are probably a hundred that tried and failed. If you are brand new, and running a business is OJT, guess who's paycheck dosen't get cashed if funds get tight at the end of the month? I would love to keep the $8,000.00 we pay on July 1 every year for insurance. I don't know about the future, but right now we are working alot more for less money than when we worked for someone else.

No one should be painting with a wide brush on either side of this argument.
 
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oldugly said:
Whenever I work for someone else, my time belongs to them...I sell it by the hour, if I am working on a side job on their time..I am stealing..The same would apply if I used their equipment on my time. I have never been a thief, and loathe the idea of one.

Lock the thread now........What needed to be said has finally been articulated in a coherent manner!
:clap:
 
The policy that I had was that anyone on the crew who walked over and sold a job while they worked for me got 10% of the price. If a neighbor walked over to get an estimate that I had to do there was no commission since the crew was there doing company work but didn't go above and beyond.

I had no problem with anyone doing side jobs with some rules:

They couldn't have time off early to do the job.
They couldn't be 'too tired' to work for me.
If they wanted to rent my equipment we could work something out.

BUT...if they were on my payroll, saw a job and went back after work to sell the work, they were stealing from me. If they weren't on my payroll doing my work they wouldn't have seen the job. It was VERY clear to them when they hired on that if they did skim a 'windshield' job and I found out, they would be terminated right away.

there have been many comments on this thread justifying 'sided jobs' on company time. There hasn't been a compelling justification to make it anything but stealing from the company.

Your employment agreement was to do 'this' work for 'this' pay, not for 'this' pay and all of the side jobs that you can do on company time too.
 
ok

sound fair to me tom
and if you can make that work in the real world that's even better.
i downsized about 2 years ago, i used to run about 4 to 6 employees.
I do most things myself now and i use the odd extra help short term, it's nice not having any commitments to my employees anymore.
I work with a craning company when i need one, my gross went down but my profits have more than doubled and i know exactly where i stand all the time,i hardly ever use my skidders anymore ,and i handfall for most of the bigger companies and let them have the stress.
kinda like the crane owner operator in this picture.
 
What kind of idiotic crap is this?

[Of course he is a rocket scientist but what the hey......lots of us tree blokes must be close to as smart. I mean of course if you take the R.O.W. guys out of the equation.:cheers:

Dan[/QUOTE]
Mr. TreeCo.
If you and Clearance want to go at it tooth and nail, go ahead...but when you paint a picture of R.O.W. guys as being less intelligent than you as an "arborist" or maybe as a person then its my turn.

Measuring intelligence means a helluva lot more than measuring vocabularies. I don't care who you are, if you don't speak French you look like an idiot to someone who does, and if he doesn't speak English...you might perceive him to be less than you in intillect.

Some of you speak from a different dictionary than I learned from...so I don't argue with you, I accept that, and as a matter of fact respect the fact that you have studied the scientific nature of tree care, while I have studied the safety and mechanical practicality of removals and line clearance under impossible situations.

The difference in the studying I did versus yours...If I passed the course I lived...if I excelled I made money in the process...and If I was really good in "class" I actually got some respect from my peers. You got a degree to hang on your wall, I got the chance to truthfully swap war stories with some of the true greats in our profession. Right now, when my competitors run into situations they do not feel they can handle, they consult with me, when they need it I help them. When I am beyond my scope of expertise...I admit it and get the advice of the CA's. Fortunately, I haven't had to deal with the arrogant assinine attitude you display here. Most of the time they are more than willing to consult, advise, and are more interested in getting the job right. I show plenty of respect for their education, and they respect mine.

I really do not care that you consider me an intellectual moron...Your opinion of me means less than you could possibly magine. I do take offense to generalities that state one aspect of this business is less intelligent than another. I thought you were much more of a man, and much more educated than to stereotype and throw idiotic slanders at a profession that is so closely related to yours...yet so entirely different.

I guess I overestimated you as a person, and your intelligence.
 
TreeCo said:
lots of us tree blokes must be close to as smart. I mean of course if you take the R.O.W. guys out of the equation.:cheers:
Dan

Dan, I've done ROW and private and can honestly say I have faced more challenges and more problematic take downs/overhang doing ROW. Sure, I learned spikeless, crane removals and general tree care during my stint in the 'tree care industry', but until you've pulled massive overhang inches from a three phase and done more of the 'one wrong move and it's over' type work, don't knock us ROW guys.
We'll have to continue this debate next time I see you in person.
 
btw

Clearance...
Before you jump on a side here....
Think about it. I'm not on your side either...we just have a commonality that is convenient for the time. I made my post, expressed my opinion...(although probably worth very little, I still felt it was mine to share) . Let it go. I'm not on your side either. Your idignance at some of these posts really makes me wonder what kind of skin you have. I would hope with the years you claim in this business it would be a little thicker than you express here.
I don't have a soapbox to stand on, just trying to make an honest living. So the jist of this...I won't tell you to get off my side...just don't get on it.
 
Tom Dunlap said:
BUT...if they were on my payroll, saw a job and went back after work to sell the work, they were stealing from me. If they weren't on my payroll doing my work they wouldn't have seen the job. It was VERY clear to them when they hired on that if they did skim a 'windshield' job and I found out, they would be terminated right away.


Are you saying that you fired guys for seeing a potential side job and returning to bid it after hours, while they were on your clock?
 
KS,

If they bid the job and did it themselves they would be fired. I never knew of anyone doing that though. Very few of my employees ever did any sidework. It's pretty easy to know if someone is doing side work. Climbing gear goes home in the evening and shows up the next day. Other crew members chatter. The rules were in place so that they understood my position.

The way I look at it, if they weren't on my payroll when they drove past the job they wouldn't have had the opportunity to see the work. That made the job 'mine' so to speak.
 
Tom Dunlap said:
KS,

If they bid the job and did it themselves they would be fired. I never knew of anyone doing that though. Very few of my employees ever did any sidework. It's pretty easy to know if someone is doing side work. Climbing gear goes home in the evening and shows up the next day. Other crew members chatter. The rules were in place so that they understood my position.

The way I look at it, if they weren't on my payroll when they drove past the job they wouldn't have had the opportunity to see the work. That made the job 'mine' so to speak.

Tom, we don't allow side work here at Dot Palm, but I think you were being more than fair. Now, if a guy wants to trim his neighbors trees or family's trees we don't mind and will even lend them the equipment.
 
peace ny

Lumberjacked said:
hahaha....I love it, you make it sound like I am taking tens of thousands of dollars from the govt. I am only saying that on smaller jobs where I get cash I might keep some of it. If you can honestly say and swear on everything that is holy to you that you have NEVER taken cash for a job then I think you should bring it down a little. As far as our moms are concerned It was not directed toward anyone or meant to be derogatory in any-way-shape-or-form. When it boils right down to it I don't care what you guys do as long as no one gets hurt! I was simply conveying my thoughts on the question at hand.[/QUOTE awright dont go all ny on me, i hear you, cash is king however if yor legit it helps to show what your doing where in ny are lj?
 

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