Side work?

[TimberMcPherson]

Gotta be resonable

I let my guys borrow gear to do sidework, but theres limits. Gear gets borrowed maybe once every couple of months.

Sidework is often a symptom of guys not getting paid enough. One of my competition pays his guys 25% less than I do and his guys side job EVERY weekend.

Its unreasonable to expect skilled guys not to use there initiative and skills to better themselves. If they are good employees you need to manage this so everyones happy. If you were able to make more in a day than you can normally in a week wouldnt you take it??

Theres a number of ways of doing this.

1) give your guys a limit on how much side work they can do. Perhaps limit it to there family members, friends or neighbours. Or only working on public holidays etc. You dont want to make it happen to regularly but you cant realistically expect it not to happen.

2) If your on a job where the guys might be able to get it done early and youve priced it for a full day, tell the guys if they get this job cleaned up early, (tell em after the dangerous stuff is out of the way) on the way home you can drop by one of there houses or a relations house and finish the day off working there for free. Now you might have to quote this job beforehand with your guy, and let them know what it would normally cost. It will be appreciated my your guy and his whole family.
Dependant on how many years hes worked for you, how hard he works or where you are you pick what jobs you got to or how long you go for.

3) Give your guys a good % on the jobs they do get for you or perhaps pay them double time/time and a half on the job or something like that, and make a big deal about it. when you do repeat jobs for that client still give them a % of the job. Helps with staff retention and helping YOU get more jobs and makes the rest of the crew want to find you work. If they find jobs and make double there normal pay doing it, sidework will become less of an issue.

Lots of ways around it without having to own your guys whole lives or having your guys resenting you for trying to control them.

 

[maloufstree]

Sorry Clearance but it's no about them throwing me a few bucks. I guess I just need to hear their side of the story.

 

[Bur Oak]

Listening is Important

In a successful business, employees are the enterprise’s most valuable resource. To the owner of a tree business this means the workers are more valuable than the chippers, trucks, grinders, and saws. Listening to your employees will gain you great insight. You already know what you think, but without dialogue would be guessing about their motivation. What if you fired them without providing them an opportunity to be heard, and then learned they were working side jobs to pay substantial bills for a family member who was just diagnosed with a significant medical problem? So hats off to you malousftree, for recognizing you need to listen to your employee’s perspectives. And of course, be hopeful that they will listen to yours!

 

[MonkeyMan_812]

Ohhh tires I bought one of them a set of tires and he pays me back $10.00 every two weeks...I made that deal and thats part of what I was saying I feel that I have been good to these guys

Last time I was a nice guy and let a guy borror $ he was nowhere to be found on monday. Yeah and he borrowed one of my tree books too. Little :censored: theif stole from me. No more loans here. And I never get to close to employees either, as far as being buddies goes. Seems like respect is lost when they feel like they know you good. Always keep your relationships on the professional level or things wont be like they should.

 

[MonkeyMan_812]

Sidework is often a symptom of guys not getting paid enough.


Or a symptom of the guys working for you blowing all the $ you pay them on beer!

 

[Raymond]

If they did it once they've done it before.
Chances are you've paid them by the hour to do work in the neighbors
yard of your customers too. Making a little side money on the clock.

Off With Their Heads!

 

[Raymond]

This kinda reminds me of when I first went out on my own.
I had another good tree buddy friend, that I teamed up with and when we got a job we both did them.

Worked great at first. Two new self employed tree guys with two phones ringing, bringing in twice the work.

I let him in on EVERY little job I had, even if it was a twenty minute job for 80 bucks or so. Because it was only fair and I thought he was doing the same.

Then one morning we talked on the phone and we both had nothing to do yet.
I went out looking for something for us, to find him cleaning out 2 large pinoaks with his wife doing the ground work.

I just rolled up on them...shook my head and drove off. Never seeing him again for a few years. I had twice the calls he did anyway, I THOUGHT.

I understand this is a little a different situation but letting them see you, seeing them, then heading back to your shop and waiting on them to see what they said would of been a good way to get this conversation started.

 

[teamtree]

I don't think you can blame a man for stepping in and doing a job on his own. That being said, he should NOT be using your equipment or even remotely affiliating himself with your company. You need to stop those two things. Other than that let him run. Personally, I climb part time for a much bigger operation than I own. It gets tricky from time to time when we're competing on bids but good communication solves it. Neither me or my boss need each other but we've come to an understanding that working together can benefit both of us...for now.

I think you can blame him. If he is an employee of a tree care company and is doing work in competition with his employer he is cutting the hand that feeds him. Why would I want one of my employees to do a job for $100 that I would do for $300. It is wrong on so many levels. It just comes down to greed. As an owner I tell all my employees to bring the work in and you will get a good cut of the pie. If they have work at their friends and family we will do it at cost. I may be old fashion but where in the hell does LOYALTY factor in to this equation?

 

[Rftreeman]

If you are loaning them gear then what grounds do you have to fire them unless they stole work from you and by that I mean if someone walks up and say "hey, can I get a price" and they end up doing the job then yes they have violated the rules but if you have never set rules against that then how can it be wrong? I understand that maybe they didn't tell you the whole truth but you allowed this to happen, you're at fault for not explaining the rules.

 

[Lawnmowerboy48]

With the company that I work for if a neighbor comes up asking for work you must give them contacts for the company. Side work you are on your own and can rent equipment from the company.

 

[Rftreeman]

I could care less about the guys that help me doing their own thing but what gripes my ass is when they give one of their cards to neighbors that ask for one, if it's my job then my cards need to go out, not theirs and they all know this now.

 

[Raymond]

I could care less about the guys that help me doing their own thing but what gripes my ass is when they give one of their cards to neighbors that ask for one, if it's my job then my cards need to go out, not theirs and they all know this now.

You got that right!
It'll be interesting to see who thinks this is OK?

 

[Blakesmaster]

I think you can blame him. If he is an employee of a tree care company and is doing work in competition with his employer he is cutting the hand that feeds him. Why would I want one of my employees to do a job for $100 that I would do for $300. It is wrong on so many levels. It just comes down to greed. As an owner I tell all my employees to bring the work in and you will get a good cut of the pie. If they have work at their friends and family we will do it at cost. I may be old fashion but where in the hell does LOYALTY factor in to this equation?

I guess that is where the value of the employee comes in to play. You have to gauge whether this person is still an asset to you. You might not like the fact that he is doing work on his own and he may not like the fact that he is doing work for you. Each party needs to make a decision about whether the benefits of this relationship are worth the hassle. If you REALLY want to keep the guy around, let him do his own thing on the side. If you don't give a damn about keeping him...well...let him go.

 

[JeffL]

Im an evil sideworker!

But, I've also bought every piece of equipment I own myself, will be insuring myself in the coming weeks, and work waaaaay outside the area my company works in. I basically 'subcontract' out as a climber for someone I actually met here on AS that runs a landscape business, as well as a few other landscapers in his area. Work has us at absolutely 0 overtime, and that's a tough cookie to swallow with a kid on the way, and a wallet accustomed to a 55+ hour work week. I'm just capitalizing on the opportunity. I'm not going to turn my nose up at a weeks worth of pay for doing god knows what, when I can double my income for 2 days of climbing on the weekend!

Not to mention the only local sidework I've done is for family, everything else is out of state.

 

[randyg]

Dear Boiling In Texas

I thinks you did the right thing by not saying anything yet. The best leaders in the world have the best advisors, and make no decision without consulting said advisors. Five years x 2 is a long time. Don't throw that away before getting all the facts. What if they worked all day for free, some humanitarian cause that you would have liked to be a part of (I guess your equipment WAS a part of) perhaps? FIND OUT. Then you might establish guidelines for the future. Take away gear borrowing privledges and they will undoubtably buy their own climbing gear and saws and then you will find them doing even MORE work on the side to pay for it. "To get ANYONE to do something, you have to make them want to do it." If they were getting a little greedy, and they admit it (we can all tell you are a 'good guy', them too) and you let them know how it hurt your feelings, their own consciences may convict them.

I wish you well, and WE are all looking forward to hearing how this turns out?

 

[maloufstree]

I think I made a good decision not to say anything when I drove by the site, it gave me a few days to calm my nerves and get some great advice from other professionals(climbers and owners of AS). Well Monday morning before we left the yard we had "the talk". They explained to me that they were doing side work and from and what I gathered out of the explanation was that they thought that we had enough business for it not to matter. Well I explained to the guys my way of thinking and that equipment loans were over. The conversation lasted about an hour and everyone stayed very professional. I understand that I myself created the situation that had happened (loaning equip.) I really think these guys never thought of it the from a business point of view. I never asked how many times it had happened but explained that this was every ones fair warning. We loaded up and went to work, work went as if nothing ever happened. I hate to feel like I am holding someone back but at the same time I would hate to lose any of my clients of potential clients. I would like to try to figure out some sort of kick back to give them on any work brought to the business through them.(I haven't told them this) I know money is tight for everyone these days and can't blame a man for doing something he didn't feel was wrong(If he did or didn't) Thanks guys once again!!!!

Craig Malouf
Malouf Tree Care

 

[clearance]

Thats great. Good for you and the best of luck to you and your guys. Five years is a long time in the tree world, you guys can make it for another five with the qualities you have.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I would like to try to figure out some sort of kick back to give them on any work brought to the business through them.(I haven't told them this) I know money is tight for everyone these days and can't blame a man for doing something he didn't feel was wrong(If he did or didn't) Thanks guys once again!!!!

Craig Malouf
Malouf Tree Care

20% commission on net. Use their actual payroll cost per hour, not just wage rate, and include a reasonable equipment cost.

 

[Ghillie]

20% commission on net. Use their actual payroll cost per hour, not just wage rate, and include a reasonable equipment cost.

That sounds like a fair way to me. It will also enlighten them on the costs of doing business and how much your overhead really is.

 

[prentice110]

This is a hard one for me to reply to without being a hypocrit. My first boss was anal about me doing side work, and my second encouraged it. The first wouldnt let me take any thing that was his and the second would let me take any thing as long as it came back in the same shape it was lent out in. He would charge me a little for the big stuff, like the chipper and chip truck. When I went out on my own, I would never do that. The position that I still feel strongly about today is that no matter what, if they break something that is yours, they will never compensate you for it. This will lead to problems and can and will turn friends into enemies. The last time I loaned out a saw, i was 18 or 19, and it came back duller than Ive seen a saw to date. Id rather piss someone off by tellin em' no, than to piss em' off by rippin em' a new one when they bring my gear back F'ed up. Ive even told my X brother en law, a 30 year asplunhd ticket crew vet, trained by my old man, to piss off when he wanted to borrow a saw for a side job. He didnt talk to me for 2 months, but I had to stick to my desicion.