Smoke Problems

[cwayne]

Hello Everyone,

This is the first year that I am burning wood. I have an epa certified stove. Built in 1992. It is installed in an existing masonry chimney with a flexable steel liner. I am burning wood I cut last spring, so its maybe seasoned 8 months. I am burning mostly maple, Black Birch, and Black Locust. It seems dry, the ends are checking and they clink when you knock them together.

When I put a load of wood in smoke pours out of the chimney for about an hour before it stops. Then burns without smoke for another 4 hours.

I am worried I am smoking out the neighborhood and wondering if I can do anything about it.

I can get pictures if need be.

Thanks,
Chris

 

[Spotted Owl]

Do you start with a smaller very hot fire first? This will heat up the pipe and get the draft started quickly. Make sure that the flue damper is working proper and allowing all smoke up the pipe. Try closeing the stove door with out lifting the handle the small gap this creates will also help draft up the pipe. Don't load on the bigger stuff until ya got a small hot one going already or you have a good bed of hot coals.

Try looking into this place lots of info here.

http://www.woodheat.org/

Owl

 

[cwayne]

Even when I have a great coal bed and everything is nice and hot, when I add wood the smoking begins. I am sure the damper works well because when the damper is fully out I'll have a raging conflagration and when I push the damper in the flames go down to a moderate flame.

 

[v8titan]

Even when you add fresh wood to a hot coal bed, you should leave the door cracked a bit until the wood is flaming to keep down the smoke. You can just toss logs in and close the door, but you will have a 5 to 10 minute period of chimney smoke until the new pieces get cooking, especially if their thick.

Just curious, how tall is your chimney?

Tom

 

[cwayne]

Tom,

The house is a raised ranch and the stove is installed on the top floor. The chimney is probably 15' high.

So the scenerio is this:

I have just finished burning a load. I have a bed of coals. Temperature is 200 - 300 degrees(I have a thermometer stuck to the front of the stove next to the glass windowed door). Normal operting temperature is 400-500 degrees. I pack in as much wood as I can fit and leave the door cracked until it flames up at which point I close the door. Within 10 minutes the fire is raging pretty good. Thick white smoke is billowing out the chimney and continues for an hour even if I damper it down.

How much smoke is normal? Does it vary with different wood?

Chris

 

[RaisedByWolves]

Sounds like your wood is still wet.




My stove does this for about 15-20 min with only tossing in wood and closing the door, this is to say without touching the damper setting.



If I open the dampers and leave the door ajar it only takes 5-10 min for a good fire to build and not have any smoke.

 

[cwayne]

Alright Raisedbywolves,

I am going to try some different wood and see if that fixes it.

Thanks,
Chris

 

[Spotted Owl]

White smoke? Does the wood hiss or sizzle when you put it or just a few after you put it in. The white I have always known to be steam. The water has to boil out of the wood before it can burn thus the white smoke. When the wtaer is out then normal burning can take over. If you have some try different wood like mentioned. If you don't try setting smaller loads and smaller split pieces to have moresurface area exposed in the stove when you reload. If you have room set your wood around the stove while it is burning to help dry it out.

Owl

 

[PA Plumber]

I concur with the damp wood. Our woodstove smokes getting everything heated up, then smoke out the top visible for a couple of feet then nothing(even on a damp drizzley day).

If I put some damp wood in, I get the white smoke for 15' to 30' unil it dries out. The hissing/sizzle/whistle is a good indicator of damp wood or you have a varmit stuck in the firebox that is not enjoying the warmth!!

I am going to encourage you to check your chimney for creosote. If you have been burning this way for a while, there could be some buildup.

 

[cwayne]

Owl,

I do not hear any sizzling or hissing of the wood.

Pa,

I have run a brush down the liner once a month.

Thanks,
Chris

 

[PA Plumber]

When you brush it, do you get much particulate matter?
Black heavy crusty, or fine/minimal dust?

 

[cwayne]

Pa,

When I brush the liner I get fine black powder, maybe 2-4 cups. The last time I did notice the cap had some thicker stuff in it that flaked out when I jammed the brush in it.

Chris

 

[PA Plumber]

Your firewood is fairly dry. The wet/green wood makes the black crusty stuff, and it's not unusual to get that near the top. This is where it the highest temp. diff. is.

The 200-300 Degree F is a little low. The temp. you notice the smoke clearing up is probabbly the bottom baseline for optimum burn for your wood stove.

Also, I have my thermometer on the stack about 10" above the stove. This is a more realistic flue temp. My thermometer is about 30 degrees F low. My stove burns clean (little to no smoke) at 370 F and up. At around 550 F, I mostly see the wavey from heat with no smoke (with bone dry wood).

 

[ozarkjeep]

CWAYNE,

Whats the model of the insert?
is this a catalytic stove insert? or does it use secondary burn tube technology?

Maybe your combustor ( if so equipped) needs to be cleaned? or replaced?

 

[PA Plumber]

CWAYNE,

Whats the model of the insert?
is this a catalytic stove insert? or does it use secondary burn tube technology?

Maybe your combustor ( if so equipped) needs to be cleaned? or replaced?

I like where Ozark is going with this. I do not have a newer style stove.

 

[ozarkjeep]

maybe.

Ive got an early 90s cat stove, and it smokes like a dragon if the combustor is clogged or dirty. ( I assume the same if its defective)

Ive had a long learning curve to operate the stove and get good heat out of it.

Let me know what you are working with Cwayne, and if what ive learned is applicable, I will try my best to share what ive gleaned.

I like where Ozark is going with this. I do not have a newer style stove.

 

[cwayne]

ozarkjeep,

My stove is not a catalytic model. It does have a secondary burn tube in the top of the firebox. It was originally manufactured by crd precision which was taken over by Energy King. I don't have the original manual, all I have is something later put out by Energy King. I think its their biggest model based on the layout of the firebricks.

Through this discussion I have noticed something I might be doing wrong. I typically stuffed as much wood in the stove as I could manage and then left the door open a crack until it started to flame. Then I would close the door at which point the flame would decrease. Then slowly the flame would increase until 30 minutes later the entire load would be burning. Once the whole firebox was raging start dampering it down.

I wonder if I should leave the door cracked longer and allow the entire load to catch before closing the door. Is it a partial burn that causes the smoke?

Regarding the secondary burn tube; How would you clean something like that? Do the firebricks have anything to do with directing the smoke. In the manual they show 2 layers of ceiling bricks, I don't have 2 complete layers as I ran out of firebricks.

Speaking of firebricks. There seems to be different kinds. The kind I ended up buying are heavy red ones. I noticed that they have light white firebricks called insulated firebricks. The ones I'm using seem to have an odor.

Anyway great comments. I'll have to borrow my wife's camera and take pictures of the burn tube.

 

[ozarkjeep]

burn tube, use a steel brush to make sure the holes in it are clear, and then you have to figure out where the air comes from that feeds that secondary tube, and make sure it isnt obstructed, its usually tied in with either a thermostatic spring ( automatic air control) or tied in with your air intake manually to adjust its air flow.

less firebox load, more air, hotter fire, cleaner burn.

if you can get some photos that might help us make some more guesses.

ozarkjeep,

My stove is not a catalytic model. It does have a secondary burn tube in the top of the firebox. It was originally manufactured by crd precision which was taken over by Energy King. I don't have the original manual, all I have is something later put out by Energy King. I think its their biggest model based on the layout of the firebricks.

Through this discussion I have noticed something I might be doing wrong. I typically stuffed as much wood in the stove as I could manage and then left the door open a crack until it started to flame. Then I would close the door at which point the flame would decrease. Then slowly the flame would increase until 30 minutes later the entire load would be burning. Once the whole firebox was raging start dampering it down.

I wonder if I should leave the door cracked longer and allow the entire load to catch before closing the door. Is it a partial burn that causes the smoke?

Regarding the secondary burn tube; How would you clean something like that? Do the firebricks have anything to do with directing the smoke. In the manual they show 2 layers of ceiling bricks, I don't have 2 complete layers as I ran out of firebricks.

Speaking of firebricks. There seems to be different kinds. The kind I ended up buying are heavy red ones. I noticed that they have light white firebricks called insulated firebricks. The ones I'm using seem to have an odor.

Anyway great comments. I'll have to borrow my wife's camera and take pictures of the burn tube.

 

[RaisedByWolves]

"I wonder if I should leave the door cracked longer and allow the entire load to catch before closing the door. Is it a partial burn that causes the smoke?"






Yes and Yes!




Sounds like you may be on the right track. I leave my door cracked untill the fire gets noisy (kinda roaring) and then close the door and damp it to where I know it will burn good for the wood Im using.


This can take some practise, but once you know what to look for you wont even need to think about it.

 

[BurninAgin]

Your best bet is to put some kindling on the coals, (if you don't have very many) smaller, DRYER logs, let it get flaming good, then add a few more bigger logs, let that get flaming good, letting the wood get chared, (black split) then you your temperature should be around 350-500 on the stove.
At that point, start turning your air setting down a little at a time. Your load should peak out between 4-7 hours.

I don't really like the idea (I'll probably get feedback on this one):hmm3grin2orange: but leaving the door open til it rages is asking for trouble. If your chimney is sooted up with creosote, which is usually true after a night of slow burn with not enough air or wet wood, you could have a minor chimney fire that will get your neighbors to call 911 if they see the smoke.

In any case, I've seen stoves walk :biggrinbounce2: across the floor a few inches right after shutting them down with a raging fire, I believe it's called "whuffing". It'll blow out your pipe, blow the glass out from in front of the stove, and dismatle stove pipe if not screwed in correctly.:jawdrop:

Just my 02 from people that have burned wood in the past and no longer do!

I myself had that happen a few years back that stopped me from burning wood in an old smoke dragon I had, mostly because it scared the :censoredut of my wife and kids and so we started using the old oil furnace.

I'm now "BurninAgin" as my name says witha a new Yotul and love the heat, the atmosphere, the work and the exercise By the way, I get, cut, split, stack my own wood, if I had to buy firewood, I'd buy oil.

Burnin