So bought a chinese saw (holz g070)

[user 189819]

Yes chain spins just fine by hand.

With bar and bar cover off; the cluch/sprocket assembly spins just like you'd expect when saw is running

With saw + bar + chain all put together... I can lay on the throttle and absolutely nothing moves.

I suspect the chain breake is engaged. On one of my saws I sometimes forget to unlock the break before removing the clutch cover. When I forget, and put it back on them no matter of operating the break handle will release the breaks, so then off again with the cover and use pliers to yank the brake over to loosen its grip on the flywheel.

 

[fields_mj]

I suspect the chain breake is engaged. On one of my saws I sometimes forget to unlock the break before removing the clutch cover. When I forget, and put it back on them no matter of operating the break handle will release the breaks, so then off again with the cover and use pliers to yank the brake over to loosen its grip on the flywheel.

As I recall, the 070, and its clone don't have a chain break.

 

[sliceoflife]

Careful there. I broke my finger pulling a handle on a messed-up gas pressure washer. No fun at all, but it's all fine now (after surgery and rehab).

Funny you should mention it. Last few times I took the saw out before this happened; it was surprisingly easy to pull... didn't even need the decomp... but after this happened; it's exactly the same as when it arrived (Really hard to pull; as described in the post you quoted).

And as Fields mentioned; no chain brake.



Found another video on replacing this clutch... seems a gear puller is the method to remove it. I'll give the saw a go this week and if it isn't fixed; removing the whole clutch and sprocket assembly is my next move. Everything that I could see from the front looked perfectly fine.

 

[user 189819]

As I recall, the 070, and its clone don't have a chain break.

Huh, can you legally sell a chainsaw without a chain break? I would not buy one without it, that's for sure.

 

[sliceoflife]

It's for milling so brake would have been taken off anyway... but not actually sure. My understanding is it also wouldn't pass EPA emissions standards these days either... Initially these old saw ripoffs were sold as kits... so I assume that was how they got around it. But now they're mostly sold fully assembled; and I really have no clue.

 

[J D]

Funny you should mention it. Last few times I took the saw out before this happened; it was surprisingly easy to pull... didn't even need the decomp... but after this happened; it's exactly the same as when it arrived (Really hard to pull; as described in the post you quoted).

There's something up with that.... the clutch shouldn't have any bearing on how hard it is to pull the saw over unless it's partially engaged, & then you would likely see the chain trying to move or feel significant resistance when turning the chain by hand.
Timing will affect these things, I would check the flywheel & coil to make sure they are properly installed

 

[user 189819]

It's for milling so brake would have been taken off anyway... but not actually sure. My understanding is it also wouldn't pass EPA emissions standards these days either... Initially these old saw ripoffs were sold as kits... so I assume that was how they got around it. But now they're mostly sold fully assembled; and I really have no clue.

You are correct. I've looked at the specs of the 070 and there is no chain break.

 

[sliceoflife]

There's something up with that.... the clutch shouldn't have any bearing on how hard it is to pull the saw over unless it's partially engaged, & then you would likely see the chain trying to move or feel significant resistance when turning the chain by hand.
Timing will affect these things, I would check the flywheel & coil to make sure they are properly installed

I think I need a correlation not causation lesson.


Saw seems to be a nightmare to pull over when hot. It just hadn't cooled off when I was trying to restart it after reattaching everything.


Anyway, seems to be working after tightening the clutch... I dumbly hoped this would stop the chain from spinning @ 1400 rpm... but nope I still have to have it idling at almost dying to keep chain still. Probably need to replace the springs if I want to fix that.

 

[J D]

Have a real good look at your clutch drum bearing & what's going on around it... you will need to pull the clutch to do that but you can start by seeing how freely the clutch drum spins (bar & chain removed). Do this cold & when it's being a bear to start.
The engine & the clutch drum (& chain) should be "free spinning" independent of each other. When they are spinning at different speeds the main shaft relies on the clutch drum bearing to rotate when the clutch drum isn't moving. If there is something wrong with that bearing, or the clearances aren't what they should be (eg uncentred crank) & there is binding going on it will cause the motor & clutch drum to be connected to some degree regardless of the clutch being engaged or not. This could be related to both the hard to pull & the chain spinning at low rpm

 

[sliceoflife]

Will do once I get a gear puller. Thanks for the advice.


In the meantime, been milling a 14-18 inch diameter log and just feels like silly overkill with the 36 inch bar... so I took a break to mill down an 8-9 inch diameter log instead... and hooked my electric (15amp) 18" saw to do it after seeing a YouTube video claiming it is doable but takes ~twice as long as a small cc gas saw.


It was... a learning experience. That little electric cuts small limbs and logs just fine but by God it's torture milling with it. You have to lean into the cut to make any progress... it bogs down if you lean in the tiniest bit too much... and at the perfect amount of force itd be 30+ minutes to take a single 6ft slab off the log. You can barely tell the saw is moving... So I rock it, which makes the surface look like garbage, but gets me done in maybe 10-12 minutes.


And this is milling a log about as big around as my thigh.


Also.. any way to rotate electric saw chains for sharpening without removing them?

 

[sliceoflife]

Strapped in my echo 900 and took a slab today... and it chugged along fine... engine gets awfully hot and the plastic cover smokes a bit, but it seems to cut fine. Did notice that the throttle lock doesn't work ( holds it at just barely touched throttle no matter how much throttle is open when I engage it) so I had to hold the throttle trigger in the whole time. Also... saw idles much lower (and will die if I don't tap the throttle for a few seconds) coming out of the cut. This is the same behavior I see with the g070... but that saw will idle even at 900 rpm... so it doesn't die as a consequence... the echo will die as the rpm drops too low for it to stay alive if I dont tap the throttle after coming out of the cut / when hot.


That all said... the difference in cc (90 vs 105) is striking... while its doesn't struggle like the little electric does... it is a bit slow going even in the 14-15 inch or so diameter log... easily twice as long as the g070 takes for the same cut... maybe even 2.5-3x as long... and it feels like it's just about sized right for the job, whereas the g070 feels almost overpowered or at least plenty big even for much larger diameter slabs (20‐24 inches).

 

[sliceoflife]

Pulled the muffler on the 900 and the area under it was packed with a black, dense mix of sawdust and bar oil... so I suspect that may be the source of my smoking.

The muffler is basically a softball sized hunk of rust so I'm giving it a vinegar soak, then I'll wire brush it into oblivion and oil it.


Piston looks immaculate so I suspect its newish as the rest of the saw clearly has a lot of miles (or maybe even heavily used pistons stay this clean if they aren't abused? I have no frame of reference)

Hoping just giving the saw a good cleaning will help it run a lot cooler.

 

[J D]

Sounds like you're trying to mill concrete or something... I was making some 12' long 24-28" wide macrocarpa slabs the other day (not hardwood but it was well seasoned). Recon each slab took about 5 minutes with my Husky 390.
Maybe revisit the chainsaw milling 101 thread & have a good read of some of the sharpening guides.
The throttle lock is only designed to open the throttle a fraction for starting.
Saw dying after an extended cut is usually a mixture/tuning issue (could be air leak related). I've also had a similar issue when a clutch drum bearing was binding & loading the saw at idle.
Heat is a saws enemy, especially when milling. Keep the fins clear as best you can, clean/ removed spark arrestors &/or a MM helps the heat escape. Tuning fuel mixture slightly rich helps cooling too

 

[sliceoflife]

That's about the rate my g070 is cutting at these days. I've not done a 12 ft slab yet, but 9-10ft @ 2ft diameter is taking around 3-4 minutes. Silver Maple.

What I've been cutting is 14-20" 7ft slabs and the g070 was taking maybe 2-3 mins. I'd guess I was 6-8 mins with the echo for the same cut.

Both chains I'm sharpening the same... but the 900 chain is quite worn and the teeth are quite dug out... so maybe that's causing problems? May need to invest in a fresh chain for that saw. I'll snap some pictures next chance I get.

The logs are currently a bit wet (we've had on and off rain this week... but according to Husqvarna's FAQ I read before trying to mill the wet logs; that doesn't make the wood harder to cut (Maybe they aren't considering cutting with the grain/milling though?)

Doesn't seem air leak for either (no revving when rotating saw)... but I've not tried tuning the Echo yet; so that's definitely a possibility. Clutch is also a possibility... especially with the G070 given all the other clutch related stuff it's got going on. Not quite bothered by it enough to try and pull the echo clutch... maybe if some tweaking of of the mixture doesn't help that'll be the next step.

The g070 throttle lock; locks at exactly the amount of throttle I'm at when it is depressed... I use it to lock the saw at WOT and just push the saw. What you describe (Just a dab of throttle to help with starting) is exactly what the 900's lock does... so that meshes... but is the G070 Supposed to work how it does or is it just another weird defect... that in this instance is actually useful (sure makes milling less of a pain to not have to hold the trigger in).


Would removing/leaving off the chunk of plastic covering the cylinder/body of the echo be advisable as long as I blow the fins clean with compressed air between jobs? Feels like that cover is trapping a ton of heat on the engine.



Edit: Not the worlds clearest picture... but hopefully you can make out the condition of the tooth on this 900's chain. There's a deep scalloping at what looks to my eyes to be around 35 degrees and with what I suspect is a smaller file... then the sharpening I've done at top (7/32" file @ 10 degrees). Light flecks are just artifacts/metal dust; not damage to the edge.

Second pic... Same tooth, took the file and gutted out the old sharpening gulley. Is this more what I should shoot for?

 

[sliceoflife]

Good news bad news time.


So... freehand sharpened the entire 900 chain. Sharpening with the guide wasn't gutting the teeth enough to give chips anywhere to go.


Went to start the saw and it didn't want to idle. Tuned the L / idle... The pullcord broke. Fixed that. Saw RIPPED through half a slab (the good news) but sounded like it was running crazy lean (And I hadn't touched the H)... Looked down and the muffler was hanging onto the saw by a prayer (the bad news).

Turns out the number of hairline cracks in the muffler that my cleaning had revealed were actually fullfledged breaks that were held together by either rust or (my guess) some form of epoxy... which failed once the saw got running... and the muffler mounting points (which the cracks had surrounded) were in fact fully broken off of the muffler... causing it to lose tension and almost fall off.

Go and look for a replacement muffler and lo and behold they don't exist... so looking like the guy I bought the saw from may have had this problem; did a temporary fix that he knew wouldn't hold and sold the saw since he couldn't replace the muffler.

It looks like a small weld job could fix it assuming the material isn't simply too thin for welding (all the pieces are here); so I may see if I can find a welder to patch it together for me. If not, Maybe JB weld Extreme heat would hold up?

Meantime... solved the issue of why it couldn't mill worth a damn at least.

 

[Maintenance supervisor]

Ive tried the extreme jb weld with no joy, doesn't hold.

 

[Aknutter]

Is the muffler a copy of an original?
Being that it's a cloned saw.
Maybe @Robin Wood can get you a genuine one.

Edit: it's the echo, disregard the post.

 

[holeycow]

Forget the high heat epoxy on a muffler. It should be called "medium heat". No way it will last.

do you have ALL of the muffler pieces? And all of the epoxy bits? There could be some in your engine..?

doesn't farmertec, neotec, or maybe hippa have a muffler?

yup. Farmertec for cheap. Buy 3 or 4 ...

 

[thenne1713]

Good news bad news time.


So... freehand sharpened the entire 900 chain. Sharpening with the guide wasn't gutting the teeth enough to give chips anywhere to go.


Went to start the saw and it didn't want to idle. Tuned the L / idle... The pullcord broke. Fixed that. Saw RIPPED through half a slab (the good news) but sounded like it was running crazy lean (And I hadn't touched the H)... Looked down and the muffler was hanging onto the saw by a prayer (the bad news).

Turns out the number of hairline cracks in the muffler that my cleaning had revealed were actually fullfledged breaks that were held together by either rust or (my guess) some form of epoxy... which failed once the saw got running... and the muffler mounting points (which the cracks had surrounded) were in fact fully broken off of the muffler... causing it to lose tension and almost fall off.

Go and look for a replacement muffler and lo and behold they don't exist... so looking like the guy I bought the saw from may have had this problem; did a temporary fix that he knew wouldn't hold and sold the saw since he couldn't replace the muffler.

It looks like a small weld job could fix it assuming the material isn't simply too thin for welding (all the pieces are here); so I may see if I can find a welder to patch it together for me. If not, Maybe JB weld Extreme heat would hold up?

Meantime... solved the issue of why it couldn't mill worth a damn at least.

SO IS it not a clone of some (REAL STIHL/ other namebrand?) that you can use an OEM Muffler on?

 

[J D]

I think it is his echo cs-900 that has the bitsy muffler