speeding up a Lewis chainsaw winch

[KiwiBro]

Looking into one of these for two applications:

1. moving logs in remote places
2. a portable haul-back line winch when cable skidding

The second application typically has less than 150Lbs of load and the faster it can get the cable and choker chains back down to the choker rat the better. But the Lewis specs suggest it will only just nudge 40ft/min. Ideally, I'd like to triple that.

So, given that I need speed and not pulling power for the haul-back line, how best to achieve that? Is there any differently geared option? I couldn't see any and they have yet to return my email.

Any ideas fellas and fellesses?

Not interested in capstan winches. Carting a battery around on an electric winch is too much of a hassle too.

 

[D&B Mack]

Upsize the sprocket? I don't own one, just guessing.

 

[Jim Timber]

You could build an overdrive for it pretty easily, but you'd have to remove it when you wanted to pull weight.

 

[Steve NW WI]

Line speed or pulling power? You're not gonna get both without a fancy (and expensive and heavy) custom built 2 speed transmission, or a winch with a lot more HP to start with (again expensive and heavy).

I just think your two uses are going to dictate two different machines. You could go to a bigger drive sprocket on the powerhead, but even a 10-pin will only get you 57ft/min vs a standard 7 pin, and cut into your pulling power quite a bit without a big saw on it.

 

[Metals406]

You could always convert a front tine rototiller over for your needs.

Most have a clutch and gearing -- and wheels to roll it around on the roads and trails. It could also use itself to pull into other areas.

Just guy it off when in use.

The fabrication would be pretty straight forward.

 

[DUGs-sawshop]

I just looked at stocking them as its moose season here. They advertised 60-80ft per minute that I saw , but I guess it has to vary as to what rpm the saw is running. Looks to me like there using #35 chain and sprockets , maybe change out a sprocket for faster times . Or larger cable would wrap faster. Good luck.

 

[Turkeyslayer]

Port the saw, more rpm's and more power to pull with. Then change sprocket sizing. Also the saw will be alot more fun/productive to run.

 

[Somesawguy]

A smaller saw would probably have higher RPM's for the lower loads. It seems like you need two different winches, or a different drum.

 

[Dan_IN_MN]

You could always convert a front tine rototiller over for your needs.

Most have a clutch and gearing -- and wheels to roll it around on the roads and trails. It could also use itself to pull into other areas.

Just guy it off when in use.

The fabrication would be pretty straight forward.

I'm going to have to look a little farther into this one! I absolutely hate front end tillers and this would be a great use for it!

 

[KiwiBro]

Thanks everyone.

With a 5 cu.in saw it says speed is approx 60ft/min. I'd like to at least double that and the loads are so low I am hoping just changing the gearing will do it.

What's the most amount of pins I can get on the rim for a MS390 (which is what I have and currently not using so thinking it might be my Lewis saw)?

Also, do you think I could get milled a different sprocket for the drum chain:

and/or mill a bigger sprocket to replace part 35?

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*edit* I've just realised there is an electrical power outlet at the rear of my tractor, so maybe I could just mount an electrical winch up there with a big spool on it? I have mucked around with a truck wind shield wiper motor and battery but it was a PITA when on the hill.

 

[JHctRednek]

You could also increase the tooth count of #35 from 9 to 10 (i think thats a 9) only problem might be finding the right sprocke combination to still maintain propper tension on the chain.
Would gain about 11% in drum speed.

http://northwoodsaw.com/store/index.php?l=product_list&c=48
They show atleast an 8 pin, I know 9s are out there.
Should gain another 14% in drum speed going from 7 to 8.

If I am thinking straight thats 25% better about 75 ft/min?

Food coma from lunch break (dinner) :msp_sleep:

Best of luck

 

[KiwiBro]

You could also increase the tooth count of #35 from 9 to 10 (i think thats a 9) only problem might be finding the right sprocke combination to still maintain propper tension on the chain.
Would gain about 11% in drum speed.

http://northwoodsaw.com/store/index.php?l=product_list&c=48
They show atleast an 8 pin, I know 9s are out there.
Should gain another 14% in drum speed going from 7 to 8.

If I am thinking straight thats 25% better about 75 ft/min?

Food coma from lunch break (dinner) :msp_sleep:

Best of luck

Thanks. Looks like a 9-pin small Oregon 7 spline rim is available here:

Small Oregon 7 Spline Bore

I think that's the right type?
It looks like the universal adapter kit is needed if using a rim.

So if I say that their speed might be 50 ft/min on an empty drum with a 7t rim, then it's increasing to (9/7 x 50) 64ft/min with a 9t rim? Have I got that right?

Also, it looks like they use a rim on their input shaft but it doesn't say what is their standard tooth for that so if 8t was standard then maybe I could find a 7t for it if it would fit on the shaft? That would then get me to (64*8/7)=75ft/min.

But I've also asked my tooling guy here if he'd be willing to make me up something for the big drum sprocket on the winch. However, I haven't heard back yet and was wondering if there is a place that might have stock sprockets of varing pitches, tooth counts, split sizes, etc?

 

[redheadwoodshed]

Thanks. Looks like a 9-pin small Oregon 7 spline rim is available here:

Small Oregon 7 Spline Bore

I think that's the right type?
It looks like the universal adapter kit is needed if using a rim.

So if I say that their speed might be 50 ft/min on an empty drum with a 7t rim, then it's increasing to (9/7 x 50) 64ft/min with a 9t rim? Have I got that right?

Also, it looks like they use a rim on their input shaft but it doesn't say what is their standard tooth for that so if 8t was standard then maybe I could find a 7t for it if it would fit on the shaft? That would then get me to (64*8/7)=75ft/min.

But I've also asked my tooling guy here if he'd be willing to make me up something for the big drum sprocket on the winch. However, I haven't heard back yet and was wondering if there is a place that might have stock sprockets of varing pitches, tooth counts, split sizes, etc?

Surplus Center - Hydraulics, Engines, Electrical and More has a bunch of sprockets to choose from, and they are cheaper than anyone else. You might find an old starter and use that for you motor, they can be pretty tourqey.

 

[Jim Timber]

Your regular farm supply might have do it yourself sprockets (select the hub you need, and the toothed ring gets welded to it) that might work. Ours sell them.

 

[KiwiBro]

Thanks redheadwoodshed and Jim Timber.

I will try contacting Lewis directly again next week. Once I know more about the sprocket they are using I might have a better idea of what to look for.

 

[Dalmatian90]

*edit* I've just realised there is an electrical power outlet at the rear of my tractor, so maybe I could just mount an electrical winch up there with a big spool on it?

Rigs I've seen with detachable winches use pretty beefy wiring -- like 2 gauge.

If you have the tractor, and you don't want to spend the money for a modern logging winch for it, and you can wait...I'd keep asking and poking around -- someone must have an old Military truck winch they've made a 3 point hitch for and geared up to run off the tractor PTO. You may have to dress up like a sheep and perform unnatural acts for their amusement to get them to part with it, but there's got to be some in Kiwiland. If you can just obtain the winch...then you probably open up a lot of options fabricating it yourself and putting in some sort of hi/lo transmission for speed or torque.

 

[redprospector]

Take sprockets 15 and 35 and just switch shafts with them. That winch will be hauling butt then.

When I was a kid I did this to the transmission on my dad's new riding mower (I wanted a go cart). He couldn't use the mower for a week, while a mechanic undid what I had done, and I couldn't sit down to eat for at least a week.

Andy

 

[KiwiBro]

Take sprockets 15 and 35 and just switch shafts with them. That winch will be hauling butt then.

When I was a kid I did this to the transmission on my dad's new riding mower (I wanted a go cart). He couldn't use the mower for a week, while a mechanic undid what I had done, and I couldn't sit down to eat for at least a week.

Andy

I can just see it now. By the time the saw has been started, the throttle blipped and then immediately shut down, the choker rat will be sporting a new set of heavy necklaces.

 

[KiwiBro]

Rigs I've seen with detachable winches use pretty beefy wiring -- like 2 gauge.

If you have the tractor, and you don't want to spend the money for a modern logging winch for it, and you can wait...I'd keep asking and poking around -- someone must have an old Military truck winch they've made a 3 point hitch for and geared up to run off the tractor PTO. You may have to dress up like a sheep and perform unnatural acts for their amusement to get them to part with it, but there's got to be some in Kiwiland. If you can just obtain the winch...then you probably open up a lot of options fabricating it yourself and putting in some sort of hi/lo transmission for speed or torque.

Thanks. I have a PTO logging winch on it but it's a single drum. I couldn't afford the double drum winch option.

 

[JHctRednek]

You already own the lewis winch right?

Take the cover off and measure the chain on it to see what the pitch is and then you can get whatever sprocket tooth count you want, your machinest will need the pitch as well to make you a new sprocket if he was machining one from scratch (the distance between teeth changes with the increase in arc length due to the larger diameter).

Its alot like measuring saw chain, take a measurement of the distance between three links and divide by 2

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