Stihl 045 AV Rebuild.

[PogoInTheWoods]

BTW, delivering solid blows to each end of a crankshaft is common practice to minimize initial binding of the crank and new bearings to effectively 'center' the crank assembly in a case. The main concern there is end of crank thread damage, and why a nut should be threaded flush with the crank end to absorb/deflect a glancing blow that may otherwise trash the threads.

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

BTW, delivering solid blows to each end of a crankshaft is common practice to minimize initial binding of the crank and new bearings to effectively 'center' the crank assembly in a case. The main concern there is end of crank thread damage, and why a nut should be threaded flush with the crank end to absorb/deflect a glancing blow that may otherwise trash the threads.

Yes absolutely, I do it after pulling cranks through with Matty’s tools. If there is any preload, it’s only very minimal with them, but makes me feel better.

So it’s quite clear that someone has been here before me.

The kill switch wasn’t working / going to ground. I checked continuity and open circuit on the switch and it was fine and also took the flywheel off and checked all the wiring from the capacitor to the points, cap to the ignition coil pack, and cap to to the kill switch wire. All was fine.

I did notice that someone used some Dirko to seal the damaged plastic sheath on the negative wire from the ignition module to the capacitor, though it is now all peeling off... I’ll have to fix that.

Back to the kill switch, I then tested from the negative wire (capacitor end) to the ground around the kill switch to confirm connection between the switch and the mag frame - it was grounding fine.

Then tested ground on the cylinder - nothing...

Basically there was a lack of continuity between the two main sections of the saw (tank / carb mounting area and the case halves, armature plate and ignition module.

Turns out there should be a spring inside the front handle that completes the circuit and the spring was missing. I had a spare so fitted it and it now works.

The joys of someone stripping a saw before you..

on a positive, the piston is absolutely mint!

Poge, if you could, can you pop your clutch off and see the position of the crank bearing and also see if the order / parts you have are the same as I showed in the video please?

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

They eventually eliminated the spring in the wrap handle and simply used a wire for the connection between the handle near the switch and the crankcase. One lug is connected between the two inside top cover screws inside the carb/air box and the other underneath one of the cylinder shroud screws near the wire routing channel. It's easier than it looks.

​

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

They eventually eliminated the spring in the wrap handle and simply used a wire for the connection between the handle near the switch and the crankcase. One lug is connected between the two inside top cover screws inside the carb/air box and the other underneath one of the cylinder shroud screws near the wire routing channel. It's easier than it looks.

View attachment 877599

View attachment 877600​

Yes that’s right, my 056 super has the little braided wire connection. Thanks for the illustrations none the less

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

So if the crank bearing is installed correctly, what would you say is the next port of call chaps?

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

I'll inspect the bearing installation on the 045 I have and report back. The other culprit could still be the spur gear since there were a couple of variations -- one I believe that may have been specifically recessed on the bottom to accommodate the larger diameter thrust washer. I'll review that as well.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

I think we've come full circle and you have the incorrect spur gear on that saw as was originally suggested. This gear is designed for the later style case/bearing/oiler drive setup on 1115 saws with a spur sprocket clutch drum. An early version pictured below obviously has the pin holes all the way through and clearly shows the recess necessary to accommodate the thrust washer. Later versions partially covered the drive pin holes. There is no bushing.

​

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

To add to the confusion, that 1802 part number is for a 24 tooth gear when yours looks to have 21 teeth making it an 1800. There would obviously need to be different pump gears corresponding to each spur gear as well, but this is the first I've become aware of the issue. Perhaps that explains the binding issue mentioned by Caustic earlier in the thread. Maybe Randy can shed some light. @hotshot ?

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

Excellent thanks mate, much appreciate

 

[hotshot]

Good eye Poge!

Oil pump on Toms saw is the 031 series pump, but like I said, I have never seen an IPL for it. I’ve never seen that long brass spacer bushing on an 045 either.

So, contrary to what I said earlier in post #29, you do have to match that smaller drive gear’s 21 tooth count. The 1115-007-1006 kit is a 24 tooth & a lot larger in diameter for engaging the later pumps. It won’t work with his early oil pump gear. Even the crank cases are different on those early models.

Be an easy fix if was setting in front of me. May have to custom trim back the long brass bushing or trim off the sprocket spur face on a belt sander to gain the 0.010” or so end play & not crush down the needle bearing like it’s doing now.

There is an 1115-640-7500 3 pin hole drive gear with 21 teeth (prob an upgrade to the 1800) that comes with a brass bushing factory pressed into it, & likely just what Tom’s already got. Chainsawr has one shown on his web store (pic attached).

The orange colored gear 1115 647 1800 is a 2 pin hole - 21 tooth, like you stated, so that would work if a replacement is needed & can’t source a 7500.

The 1800 orange colored 045 gear has no brass insert, is all plastic, & wore itself out if got too hot.

Now I need to go look at my early 50mm bored 045 saw’s oiler gearing to be sure, it’s been over 15 years since I had to take one apart!

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

Good eye Poge!

Oil pump on Toms saw is the 031 series pump, but like I said, I have never seen an IPL for it. I’ve never seen that long brass spacer bushing on an 045 either.

So, contrary to what I said earlier in post #29, you do have to match that smaller drive gear’s 21 tooth count. The 1115-007-1006 kit is a 24 tooth & a lot larger in diameter for engaging the later pumps. It won’t work with his early oil pump gear. Even the crank cases are different on those early models.

Be an easy fix if was setting in front of me. May have to custom trim back the long brass bushing or trim off the sprocket spur face on a belt sander to gain the 0.010” or so end play & not crush down the needle bearing like it’s doing now.

There is an 1115-640-7500 3 pin hole drive gear with 21 teeth (prob an upgrade to the 1800) that comes with a brass bushing factory pressed into it, & likely just what Tom’s already got. Chainsawr has one shown on his web store (pic attached).

The orange colored gear 1115 647 1800 is a 2 pin hole - 21 tooth, like you stated, so that would work if a replacement is needed & can’t source a 7500.

The 1800 orange colored 045 gear has no brass insert, is all plastic, & wore itself out if got too hot.

Now I need to go look at my early 50mm bored 045 saw’s oiler gearing to be sure, it’s been over 15 years since I had to take one apart!

View attachment 877820

Thanks for all the info Randy, I’m going to hold off modifying the oil gear though it’s a good suggestion. I think she’ll go back together without the spacer. Ultimately the owner isn’t going to use it properly. It will likely be on display behind the counter at his shop and he’ll possibly do a few cuts with it whenever he gets the urge. With the extra skirt on the oiler pin and the sealed rear of the oil gear, I presume a lot of firewood cutting would be required to wear both out. I’d rather leave it original as it came from factory as I don’t want to introduce a problem that doesn’t currently exist.

 

[hotshot]

Thanks for all the info Randy, I’m going to hold off modifying the oil gear though it’s a good suggestion. I think she’ll go back together without the spacer. Ultimately the owner isn’t going to use it properly. It will likely be on display behind the counter at his shop and he’ll possibly do a few cuts with it whenever he gets the urge. With the extra skirt on the oiler pin and the sealed rear of the oil gear, I presume a lot of firewood cutting would be required to wear both out. I’d rather leave it original as it came from factory as I don’t want to introduce a problem that doesn’t currently exist.

Ok, that’s probably best, as the oiler/clutch assembly is kind of a mixed bag of parts.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

'Preciate the additional input, Randy. This has been an interesting and enjoyable exercise!

Since we've basically explored and determined most of the variables and know the fitment of the existing gear is acceptable without the washer, I'd generally agree with just running it with the current gear minus washer to wrap things up for the customer. I've not been able to find that combination of gear and separate bushing in any of my old IPLs or tech bulletins, not to mention anything indicating an application without at least the first (and smaller) version of the washer regardless of the version of gear..., when referring to the limited resources at my disposal, of course. I'd also really like to know when and why they converted gear ratios as the other missing link here. Those tech notes are out there somewhere as hard copy and are like gold these days when you can find them.

But if it were me? I'd relieve both sides of that gear with a piece of moderately abrasive material on a piece of glass (or other reasonably flat surface) and use the washer -- the pin side to minimize any possible friction against the cover, and the bottom for the washer fitment.

Now that would be the correct way to use the wrong part! LOL

Cheers, fellas.

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

'Preciate the additional input, Randy. This has been an interesting and enjoyable exercise!

Since we've basically explored and determined most of the variables and know the fitment of the existing gear is acceptable without the washer, I'd generally agree with just running it with the current gear minus washer to wrap things up for the customer. I've not been able to find that combination of gear and separate bushing in any of my old IPLs or tech bulletins, not to mention anything indicating an application without at least the first (and smaller) version of the washer regardless of the version of gear..., when referring to the limited resources at my disposal, of course. I'd also really like to know when and why they converted gear ratios as the other missing link here. Those tech notes are out there somewhere as hard copy and are like gold these days when you can find them.

But if it were me? I'd relieve both sides of that gear with a piece of moderately abrasive material on a piece of glass (or other reasonably flat surface) and use the washer -- the pin side to minimize any possible friction against the cover, and the bottom for the washer fitment.

Now that would be the correct way to use the wrong part! LOL

Cheers, fellas.

Thank you both (all) it’s been a very interesting exercise indeed!

I have actually done some video footage of when I got the saw, found the issues and went through to fix it. Thought it may be fun to share. I’ll probably just document the whole rebuild and then upload when it’s all finished.

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

Chaps, I noticed when taking the carb off my 045 that it didn’t have the inner metal sleeve / ring that sits inside the intake manifold. I believe this is because it’s an earlier model, has anyone else noticed this? The manifold is damaged and will need replacing anyway, so I’ll swap it out with the newer version and thus order the sleeve to go with it, can you see any issues in doing so?

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

I show it as 1117-141-1800 - 'sleeve' - in a fairly early 045AV IPL for 'elbow connection' (manifold) 1115-141-2200. The same numbers are listed in a later 056AVE IPL. The sleeve is common to several saws and the 'elbow connector' eventually became a 'manifold' in later publications. I didn't see references to earlier versions or numbers for either part and would certainly install both parts.

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

Thank you!

I show it as 1117-141-1800 - 'sleeve' - in a fairly early 045AV IPL for 'elbow connection' (manifold) 1115-141-2200. The same numbers are listed in a later 056AVE IPL. The sleeve is common to several saws and the 'elbow connector' eventually became a 'manifold' in later publications. I didn't see references to earlier versions or numbers for either part and would certainly install both parts.

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

Very interesting, I just watched a video of someone working on their 045 too and that didn’t have a metal manifold sleeve either.

The early ones must have come out before they were introduced. I’ll buy one just because the newer manifold states it should have one.

I continued on the saw yesterday taking it all apart... in the living room!

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

You may be correct about there not being a sleeve in the original 045. I don't have an original 045 IPL to confirm one way or another, just the subsequent 045AV material which I referred to previously. That said, I did find reference to a 1973 045 tech note which included something about the 'elbow connector'. May be when the sleeve was added (if indeed it was originally omitted?)? I believe the 045 was the first adaptation of an actual rubber intake boot / impulse arrangement as Stihl evolved from the reed valve intake design. (Someone will undoubtedly correct me if I'm wrong about that.) Most designs since then now include the sleeve, presumably for reinforcement of the boot itself along with the seal to the carburetor. The 045AV I recently rebuild was a very early one, but did include the sleeve.

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

You may be correct about there not being a sleeve in the original 045. I don't have an original 045 IPL to confirm one way or another, just the subsequent 045AV material which I referred to previously. That said, I did find reference to a 1973 045 tech note which included something about the 'elbow connector'. May be when the sleeve was added (if indeed it was originally omitted?)? I believe the 045 was the first adaptation of an actual rubber intake boot / impulse arrangement as Stihl evolved from the reed valve intake design. (Someone will undoubtedly correct me if I'm wrong about that.) Most designs since then now include the sleeve, presumably for reinforcement of the boot itself along with the seal to the carburetor. The 045AV I recently rebuild was a very early one, but did include the sleeve.

Thanks mate, all good info and much appreciated!!!