stihl 440/460 hybrid

[Treelugger]

Have searched many threads and learned a lot,but keep coming up with more questions!
I live and work in uk felling hardwoods.I use stihl 660's with 20" bar mostly.I like the speed and power and the weight has never really bothered me too much.For big stuff I use an 088 with 36" bar.
Since joining this site I have fitted factory dp muffler(with cage removed)to one of my 660's.Big timber is becoming scarce over here now and I am thinking this is all the saw I need for the occasional large diameter felling job.
After much reading and searching I am beginning to think I could get same cutting speed /performance with a 20"bar from a well modded saw in the 70cc class.
I have a 2003 model 440,used on and off,an old saw,but has good compression.(not measured it but plenty of resistance on starter rope).It has factory dp muffler and runs good with 16" bar.Thinking that port work is not a good idea on such an old saw I have found an oem p&c for a 460.Planning to fit this.Now for the questions!
If crankshaft feels tight and smooth and saw runs good,is it necessary to replace crankshaft bearings and seals when doing the mod given the age of the saw and extra load from larger p&c?
Many on here advocate a new meteor piston for this mod.If the p&c I have are in good shape,although used,presumably there is no reason not to use both?
I am advised that the 440/460 use the same carb,so does this mean there is no need to upgrade or replace the standard 440 carb to provide enough fuel to get the best from this mod?
Will the 460 p&c give a worthwhile performance boost given that the saw is stock(other than dp muffler)?
Thinking of selling the 088(and other saws that don't get used)and buying a professionally modded 440/460 hybrid.A good choice?
How much improvement in power/cut times etc. could I expect from port work etc.?
Finally, who should I trust to do the work?Mastermind seems well respected on here.
Your thoughts would be appreciated(if you're not asleep after reading all of this!)
Thanks.

 

[mdavlee]

If you can get the search to work out for you there's several threads about the 460 top end on a 440. It requires slotting of the holes in the cylinder and maybe a spacer for behind the muffler on the bottom bolts that hold the muffler to the case. That's all I can remember right off. Any of the site sponsors will do the job right if you are wanting to send the saw over here. It may be easier to sell what you have and let one of them get a saw and mod and send over to you instead of the international shipping twice.

 

[Treelugger]

I have read the threads on fitting 460 p&c to 440.I think you are probably right about the international shipping-less expense and less hassle.Thanks for the input.

 

[Trx250r180]

i had mastermind build a hybrid for me ,he did a good job on mine ,its way stronger than my 440 was ,its my go to saw most of the time

 

[pioneerguy600]

To get the most out of a 440 to 460 hybrid a good deal of porting is needed. Randy and Brad have worked out a very good set of numbers for this particular saw and I have tried these numbers on mine, I have 3 of these hybrids for work saws and they are far superior to a stock or even modded 044-440.

 

[tgerloff92]

I love mine, absolutely the best saw I have(we'll see what my 660 will do wen it gets back from Mastermind ) it's heaven for a feller. You'll realize the weight difference and won't want to use your 660 unless the 36" bar needs to come out

 

[Naked Arborist]

The previous replies have pretty much covered it on the hybrid build. IMO do the seals why your there. I'm going to do an 046 woods ported to see what can be had from it. I'm no saw expert but the numbers seem real good and the advice is priceless !!!

 

[Treelugger]

I love mine, absolutely the best saw I have(we'll see what my 660 will do wen it gets back from Mastermind ) it's heaven for a feller. You'll realize the weight difference and won't want to use your 660 unless the 36" bar needs to come out

I too would be interested to know what your 660 turns out like.Always thought that after a muffler mod on these that there was not too much more to be gained.
Think I will go ahead with the 460 p&c on my 440-hopefully make it a good deal stronger than it is now.
As for a fully ported version-looks like Randy and Brad are the men for the job.
You all seem to rate these saws pretty highly-better than a well ported husqvarna 372 75cc version?
Or are they more or less on a par with each other?(I think the husqvarna weighs 1/2 pound less).
Thanks for all the sound advice.Good to hear first hand from people with experience of this stuff.

 

[Trx250r180]

I too would be interested to know what your 660 turns out like.Always thought that after a muffler mod on these that there was not too much more to be gained.
Think I will go ahead with the 460 p&c on my 440-hopefully make it a good deal stronger than it is now.
As for a fully ported version-looks like Randy and Brad are the men for the job.
You all seem to rate these saws pretty highly-better than a well ported husqvarna 372 75cc version?
Or are they more or less on a par with each other?(I think the husqvarna weighs 1/2 pound less).
Thanks for all the sound advice.Good to hear first hand from people with experience of this stuff.

i have a 372 xpw 75cc and the hybrid 440/460 ,both done by mastermind ,they are both strong but have different personalities id call it ,the xpw has snappier crisper throttle response ,its definitly the louder of the 2 ,i havent timed cuts yet ,they are both way stronger than a 440 or normal 372

 

[Treelugger]

From what you say,I'm guessing maybe the hybrid is more of a low end torque kind of a saw.
Thinking that when it's buried deep in an oak tree(mostly what I cut)on felling cuts that this is when there is the most opportunity to gain or lose time.
Add to the this the fact that all my other saws are stihl,making bars and chains interchangeable,and the xpw's being hard to find,perhaps the stihl hybrid is the one I should go for.Might be 1/2 pound heavier,but I suppose this is a small difference.
Probably splitting hairs on this one anyway.Sounds like either would be a good choice.

 

[UK Rich]

Something I've been wanting to do for a while. Makes sense so I'm not having to lug my 660 up the tree to chog it down so much. I have the 460 top end, just need to find a semi decent 440 chasis to bolt it up to. They seem to hold their value over here.

 

[deye223]

ported 461 ???

 

[Treelugger]

Something I've been wanting to do for a while. Makes sense so I'm not having to lug my 660 up the tree to chog it down so much. I have the 460 top end, just need to find a semi decent 440 chasis to bolt it up to. They seem to hold their value over here.

I don't have any spare ones.I have two,one I use and one for parts.Both are from saws I bought new years ago.They seem to be so scarce in the uk now.Probably why they hold their value so well.
If I do come across any I will send you a pm.You could always import from the usa,I buy quite a lot of my saw parts from there,but of course you have to allow for shipping costs.

 

[UK Rich]

I don't have any spare ones.I have two,one I use and one for parts.Both are from saws I bought new years ago.They seem to be so scarce in the uk now.Probably why they hold their value so well.
If I do come across any I will send you a pm.You could always import from the usa,I buy quite a lot of my saw parts from there,but of course you have to allow for shipping costs.

How much have you had to pay with import duties etc?
Cheers for the heads up.

Who do you work for in Exeter?

 

[StihlyinEly]

I too would be interested to know what your 660 turns out like.Always thought that after a muffler mod on these that there was not too much more to be gained.

Plenty of gains to be had. I've owned two ported 660s, both with muffler mod or dual port. It's really easy to tell when compared with a broken-in factory 660.

I easily run a 36 inch bar and chain on a ported 660 and can bury it in hardwood with no issues. If you are running out of wood that requires long bars, and if money is an issue, you could get a big chunk of cash by selling the 880 and still have money left over after building your hybrid and getting your 660 ported.

Once you run ported saws, it's really hard to go back to stock. And you can run a 20-inch B&C with an 8-pin rim on your hybrid and a 25-inch B&C also with 8 pin rim on the ported 660. Significantly faster chain speed than with standard 7 pins, and with those mods, there is gobs of torque to keep that fast spinning chain eating. Then you keep your 36-inch B&C in reserve for when you might need it for bigger wood. Easy peasy!

 

[tgerloff92]

I'll let you know how it goes

 

[Treelugger]

How much have you had to pay with import duties etc?
Cheers for the heads up.

Who do you work for in Exeter?

The only charges I have ever had to pay when buying parts from usa are VAT@20%(same as here)and a Royal Mail handling fee of around £8.
Stuff usually takes around 2 weeks to arrive.
I don't necessarily work in Exeter,I buy standing timber from wherever I can get it,then fell and extract it.

 

[Treelugger]

Plenty of gains to be had. I've owned two ported 660s, both with muffler mod or dual port. It's really easy to tell when compared with a broken-in factory 660.

I easily run a 36 inch bar and chain on a ported 660 and can bury it in hardwood with no issues. If you are running out of wood that requires long bars, and if money is an issue, you could get a big chunk of cash by selling the 880 and still have money left over after building your hybrid and getting your 660 ported.

Once you run ported saws, it's really hard to go back to stock. And you can run a 20-inch B&C with an 8-pin rim on your hybrid and a 25-inch B&C also with 8 pin rim on the ported 660. Significantly faster chain speed than with standard 7 pins, and with those mods, there is gobs of torque to keep that fast spinning chain eating. Then you keep your 36-inch B&C in reserve for when you might need it for bigger wood. Easy peasy!

Sounds like good sense.Are 20&25 inch the point at which you would drop back to 7 pin on those two saws?
Would you use skip tooth chain @25 inch and up?Or stay with fully comp.
My 36 inch bar and chain are .404 gauge.Will that run ok on the 660 or better with 3/8?

 

[Treelugger]

I'll let you know how it goes

Can't wait!

 

[StihlyinEly]

Sounds like good sense.Are 20&25 inch the point at which you would drop back to 7 pin on those two saws?

Pretty much. But if you port your hybrid you could run an 8-pin rim and a 25-inch B&C. You could also run a 28-inch B&C and 8-pin on the ported 660 with no problem. Up from there and I'd fall back to the 7-pin.

Would you use skip tooth chain @25 inch and up?Or stay with fully comp.

The only times I run skip is when I'm using 36 inch or longer bars. Long bars and deep cuts, skip is best for clearing chips.

My 36 inch bar and chain are .404 gauge.Will that run ok on the 660 or better with 3/8?

Pretty sure the 880 takes a bigger mount bar than the 660. Someone correct me on that if I'm wrong. My 660s have only ever worn 3/8, and that chain cuts like crazy.