Stihl 441C upgrade question; 20" bar dead?

[cutleg]

Two questions

1. I have a Stihl MS 441C with a 20" bar. I'd like to upgrade it pretty substantially. From my reading here, it seems like the best things to do are

a. Drill muffler
b. Re-tune carb
c. Add high flow oiler or else mod oiler to flow better
d. Upgrade dogs
e. Buy a 25 or 28" bar

What do y'all think, and, could you possibly point me to specifics on precisely how to do these things? Or, in the alternative, do y'all know anyone I can ship this thing to to get this done? I don't trust my locals.

2. I have a Stihl 310 with 20" bar. It runs like crap, but I think it's because my bar is toast, specifically I think the tip sprocket or whatever you call it is bad.

It spins all right, but it seems like the teeth of the sprocket are too worn down, and I think the sprocket may be bent to one side. As a result, I never get a good chain roll. I've attached pictures.

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Thank y'all. I'm a complete novice, so feel free to tell me everything I've done wrong and how bad my ideas are!

 

[kenton.a.frank]

Just a reminder if it a Mtronic saw you don’t return the carb.


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[1Alpha1]

Or.........you could skip all that and just slap a MAGNUM decal on it.

Faster, easier, cheaper, and just as effective.

 

[Deleted member 149229]

That bar sprocket looks worn and by the amount of blue it’s gotten pretty warm, heck, HOT.

 

[dmb2613]

That bar is toast

 

[1Alpha1]

I gained a 12% hp increase and dropped 1.2 lbs. by putting the MAGNUM sticker on this.

That, and it never takes any more than 4 pulls on the rope to start, no matter how cold it is out.

 

[T-Dozzer]

I have 461 High Output oiler Ide part with if it fits a 441.

 

[kenton.a.frank]

So let me get this straight. Guy comes to a forum that’s supposed to be filled with guys that are like minded. He hears next 1 comment addressing his planned upgrade and one comment that offers a part if it fits. Otherwise a bunch of guys decide to hyjack his thread to make fun of the magnum sticker?

Awesome.


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[Del_]

I think a 20 inch bar is good on a 441 so I don't see a 25 inch bar as an upgrade.

 

[NCPT]

If I had your saws, I would sale the 310 and use the money to have the 441 ported by a builder. That will be the biggest and easiest performance gain.

 

[Deleted member 149229]

No. He asked about his 20” bar. He got replies it was shot. The magnum hi jack I do agree with you. I don’t offer saw “improvement” advice on a Saw I’m not familiar with.

 

[kenton.a.frank]

No biggie I’ve just had more than one post that I ask a question to my “saw guys” because I’m stumped. Only to see it has gone on a tangent and I get no help. But get notification after notification hoping one is helpful.

And now I’m a hypocrite thanks all! Lol have a great weekend. Stay safe if you are like me and in abnormally warm weather!


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[Deleted member 149229]

No biggie I’ve just had more than one post that I ask a question to my “saw guys” because I’m stumped. Only to see it has gone on a tangent and I get no help. But get notification after notification hoping one is helpful.

And now I’m a hypocrite thanks all! Lol have a great weekend. Stay safe if you are like me and in abnormally warm weather!


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Been there myself.

 

[ericm979]

Two questions

1. I have a Stihl MS 441C with a 20" bar. I'd like to upgrade it pretty substantially. From my reading here, it seems like the best things to do are

a. Drill muffler
b. Re-tune carb
c. Add high flow oiler or else mod oiler to flow better
d. Upgrade dogs
e. Buy a 25 or 28" bar

Those mods can be useful for some people. But you only need a 25" or 28" bar if you're dealing with trees large enough to require them. A 28" bar will make the saw's balance nose heavy. The 25" might too (it does on a 362 but not a 460, and the 441's weight is between those). The longer the bar the heavier and more unwieldy the saw is. You only need the high output oiler to run the long bar. Large dogs are useful for some species of tree with deep irregular bark. If you don't need them they just use up bar length. A muffler mod (which can vary quite a bit) can add power on many saws but also makes the saw noisier. Do it wrong and it'll just be noisier.

Rather than making changes just because lots of other guys do them, think about the things that could be better with your saw and address those. Do some research on what others with similar saws and trees have done and what works for them.

 

[1Alpha1]

So let me get this straight. Guy comes to a forum that’s supposed to be filled with guys that are like minded. He hears next 1 comment addressing his planned upgrade and one comment that offers a part if it fits. Otherwise a bunch of guys decide to hyjack his thread to make fun of the magnum sticker?

Awesome.


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Chill out some! It's an internet forum. It's not life or death.

You want serious? Go to a cancer forum.

 

[BangBang77]

Two questions

1. I have a Stihl MS 441C with a 20" bar. I'd like to upgrade it pretty substantially. From my reading here, it seems like the best things to do are

a. Drill muffler
b. Re-tune carb
c. Add high flow oiler or else mod oiler to flow better
d. Upgrade dogs
e. Buy a 25 or 28" bar

What do y'all think, and, could you possibly point me to specifics on precisely how to do these things? Or, in the alternative, do y'all know anyone I can ship this thing to to get this done? I don't trust my locals.

2. I have a Stihl 310 with 20" bar. It runs like crap, but I think it's because my bar is toast, specifically I think the tip sprocket or whatever you call it is bad.

It spins all right, but it seems like the teeth of the sprocket are too worn down, and I think the sprocket may be bent to one side. As a result, I never get a good chain roll. I've attached pictures.

---
Thank y'all. I'm a complete novice, so feel free to tell me everything I've done wrong and how bad my ideas are!

Yeah, that bar is shot.

A muffler mod was a welcome addition to my 441c. Mine seemed to come alive post modification. I added fins on the flywheel side of the front half and a single fin on the top front half. I can get some pics tomorrow if you want to see what I did. Nothing fancy but it works for me and can be done with a dremel, needlenose pliers, and a regular screwdriver.

If yours is the 441c as your OP suggests, it has the M-Tronic carb, therefore no adjustment is needed.

I run a 20" Tsumura on mine most of the time, but have a 24" Sugihara that is used occasionally.

I've been down the dual bucking spike, long bar rabbit hole a few times on different saws, especially this 441c. I am now back to a 20" bar and the original bucking spike. The oversize dual spikes look cool, but have no practical use for my tree jobs. But I'm in Oklahoma so the bark is thin around these parts. It differs based on your location.

Mission drives the gear - meaning, determine what you are doing with the saw. Felling, bucking, topping, limbing. What tree size you cut the majority of the time? If a 20" will do most of your work, stick with a 20". If you need the occasional longer bar, it wouldn't hurt to have one on hand, but I sure as hell wouldn't run a long bar just to run one.

Regarding the HO oiler? My 441c oils a 24" very well, but haven't tried it on anything longer. An other forum member will have to chime in on a 28" and how it oils.

This forum is a good group of guys who will point you in the right direction. Welcome aboard!

 

[cutleg]

Man those were great responses. I don't get the inside joke about MAGNUM stickers, but oh well.

Thanks particularly to ericm979 and BangBang77.

Here's what I decided based on what y'all said.

1. Selling one saw to focus on another is not an option but understandable
2. Keeping the 20" and regular dogs on the 441. Y'all are correct that not needed. Will consider having a 24 or even 28 but only for special needs.
3. I now know that the 441 has the M-Tronic carb so no adjustment needed.
4. I desire to get the 441 ported (but need a guy!).
5. Going now to buy a new bar for the 310. Any suggestions other than the usual Stihl?

I'll soon post about how to mod up the 310... even if the gains aren't amazing, I like the experiment.

 

[NCPT]

Man those were great responses. I don't get the inside joke about MAGNUM stickers, but oh well.

Thanks particularly to ericm979 and BangBang77.

Here's what I decided based on what y'all said.

1. Selling one saw to focus on another is not an option but understandable
2. Keeping the 20" and regular dogs on the 441. Y'all are correct that not needed. Will consider having a 24 or even 28 but only for special needs.
3. I now know that the 441 has the M-Tronic carb so no adjustment needed.
4. I desire to get the 441 ported (but need a guy!).
5. Going now to buy a new bar for the 310. Any suggestions other than the usual Stihl?

I'll soon post about how to mod up the 310... even if the gains aren't amazing, I like the experiment.

For a bar suggestion, I like Total and Tsumura light bars. There are a couple members who sale them.

 

[BangBang77]

For a bar suggestion, I like Total and Tsumura light bars. There are a couple members who sale them.

Absolutely. I have Cannons, Sugiharas, and Tsumuras, as well as Stihls, but I prefer the Tsumura Light-n-Tough standard weight bars. And you can buy 2.5 of them for the price of a Sugihara or Cannon. The Stihl ES bars with the replaceable sprocket nose are a very good bar as well, but the Tsumura bars are cheaper.

If you are going to grab a 24" or 28" just for "special needs", there is nothing at all wrong with an Oregon or Cartlton bar. I would just make sure of the gauge. I mostly see .063 gauge in .325" and .050 gauge in 3/8" in my neck of woods in Stihl chain so I only buy bars in those gauges as I prefer the Stihl chain.

I agree on keeping the 310. It is always a good idea to have a backup saw. Always.

I am out in the shop today dicking around with my saws. I will get you some pics of my 441c and 261c muffler mods.

 

[BangBang77]

Here are a few pics of my 441c muffler mods. I enlarged the factory hole (not pictured), removed the screen, and added the fins. They're not pretty, but it has better throttle response.