Stihl ms 361

[scott06903]

Hi all

First post here new saw owner. Prior to choosing a saw, I did research on a versatile saw. My immediate need was a saw that could buck 3 large White Pines and one large oak damaged from Sandy. The one that came up most was the Sthil ms361. I found one on ebay with little useful info about the history of the saw, and 2 crappy pictures. I took the chance and paid $350 for the saw. The saw was sold by a 3rd party. It came with a 20" bar which even by my untrained eye looked beat up.

I bought a new 28" bar and chain from one of 2 local Stihl dealers as well as a 20" chain for the bar the saw came with.

I used the 28" bar and chain (Stihl yellow Tie strap...non safety) and it worked fine on the pine, every now and then it would shutter, as if it was not totally in gear.

The saw would cut white oak with a diameter of at least 30" if I would go slow and keep the chain away from sharp angles, i.e. tilt forward in the initial cut and down to complete. The sharp angle seemed to bog the chain down.

The purpose of this post is to determine if the saw I bought is in good shape mechanically and to set a benchmark as to what I should expect from the saw.

I would appreciate guidance on how to objectively access the performance of the saw.

Note: the 2x I have pulled the carb off, fuel has shot out of the line. Not sure if that is normal or not. I expected it to be neutral because of the tank vent. Should a vacuum be pulling on the tank?


Cold compression was 140 with release valve at the bottom of the dial....mfg by Sun or similar.


Rather than spewing a bunch of additional irrelevant info I look for questions to narrow down the problem if any.

Thanks

Scott

 

[sgt7546]

I can only speak to my 361, but it doesn't like a 28 inch bar in Oak. And I doubt the oiler does either. With a 20" bar, my 361 will cut Oak all day long, just so long as I do my part and keep the chain sharp.

On the bottom of the saw is an adjustment for the oiler. Make sure it is turned all the way up. I'd much rather have a little extra oil than not enough.

 

[B Harrison]

I know Stihl recommends 25" as a max bar length and not sure why your dealer would have sold you otherwise, but OK.

Thats beside the point, the saw should shudder a little and chatter when its being pushed like you are pushing it. If it didn't bog with a 28" burried I would say you have the most powerful 361 in the world.

That saw is very well suited for a 20" bar in a homeowners hands.

Lots of people would say that its over weight and has poor balance (especially with a big bar), but i have used them a few times and they are good saws, great saws for $350, do you know how to adjust the oiler? Do you know how to tell if the chain is properly lubed?

 

[Muffler Bearing]

Go here and read:

Learn to tune that 361

Pro Saw Maintenance & Repair Menu

 

[D&B Mack]

A 28" bar is too long on a 361. In pine, it may cut ok, oak will be too much for it. Either way, the oiler can't keep up on that length of bar.

Are you able to take a video of the saw in the cut?

 

[scott06903]

inside the engine.

Thanks for the replies.
I have the oiler turned all the way up I can see oil spray marks on a stump. I have read about upgrading the oil pump assembly or piston & adjustment screw using one from a 460R. For now I will hold off on that.

There is slight discoloration on the top of the bar near the muffler.
As far as the long 28” bar, yes it is a bit much but I needed it to get through some large trunks of mostly pines and one oak. The dealer tried to dissuade me from the 28”.

As far as tuning the saw I have read all about that and watched videos. I think it is ok by ear, I can hear the burble at full speed. I have a tachometer on the way to confirm.

I took the top end off to check for scoring and just to get in there and look. This is a surprisingly easy machine to work on. I don’t think the cylinder is scored; I welcome your comments on the condition of the cylinder and piston.

Would the saw benefit from new rings, should I expect higher compression with new rings? I would buy Stihl gasket and rings, they are only $10 more than the caber aftermarket rings. I am assuming the piston is in good shape, it looks ok to me. There does seem to be a bunch of buildup on the head of the piston, not sure what that would indicate.

Last time I ran the saw was with the 28” bar wide open while cutting pine. I killed the saw to get an idea of what the combustion/ plug looked like in that condition. To me it looks ok maybe a little lean??

When I pull the barb from the carb out of the fuel line gas shoots out of the fuel line. Does this indicate anything is wrong or is this normal?

Thanks


View attachment 265717View attachment 265718View attachment 265719View attachment 265720View attachment 265721

 

[Plan-b]

That plug looks a little too white for my liking.

 

[cutforfun]

put it all back the way you found it, tune the carb and run that baby

 

[huskydude]

The insides look good. You are running way too big of a bar.

 

[Philip Wheelock]

One suggestion: try the saw with the 20" bar & new chain & evaluate. Pretty sure that a 28" bar is 70cc territory and that the 361 will be happier with the shorter bar. If that means bore cutting bigger wood, that's not such a bad thing. Maybe address the slightly low compression later on. Nice saw.

 

[Evanrude]

I'd say it appears you did a fine job picking that up. Sounds like you just need to tune it a tad bit more and GET RID OF THAT 28" BAR! I used to have a 361, 20" bar was perfect for that. As far as I'm concerned, 24+ is 70cc territory (I cut all hardwoods).

For your fuel line spitting fuel when you unhook the carb, that is normal. There will usually be a little pressure built up in the tank - the air vent only allows inward air to compensate for fuel leaving. I flip the saw on its side, release the cap, then pull the carb. No burnt eyes that way.

 

[sunfish]

Good saw, but bad bar size choice!

 

[JimiLL]

GREAT saw, TERRIBLE bar length!

I wouldnt even run a 25" bar on there... I have an 18" on mine and it rips hard

 

[Anthony_Va.]

Have you modded the muffler? The 361 gets great gains from a muffler mod. You can pry the crimp open on the muffler to get it apart. Take all that internal baffling out and open the exhaust port up to about a 7/8" hole. Then she'll be a beast.

That saw hasnt hardly been run from looking in the cylinder. A 361 isnt going to like a 28" bar. They like the 20" bars alot. Anything bigger will make it struggle some when buried. I run stick to running the 20" on it. JMO

 

[SawTroll]

Have you modded the muffler? The 361 gets great gains from a muffler mod. You can pry the crimp open on the muffler to get it apart. Take all that internal baffling out and open the exhaust port up to about a 7/8" hole. Then she'll be a beast.

That saw hasnt hardly been run from looking in the cylinder. A 361 isnt going to like a 28" bar. They like the 20" bars alot. Anything bigger will make it struggle some when buried. I run stick to running the 20" on it. JMO

I mostly run a 15" bar with 3/8x8 and 36RSC on mine, but that's just because it is fun and mostly very effective for what I do. The 18" bar is getting a lot less use, mostly just pure felling sessions - and I wouldn't really like more than that, purely for balance reasons, not power. :msp_wink:

The only thing I really don't like with it is the inboard clutch, but it handles well for a saw with an inboard. Well, OK, I don't really like the Stihl combo switch either, and isn't crazy about the flippy caps - but those are minor details...

It is really sad that Stihl didn't get around to make more models based on the same principles as the MS361 (including quad transfer non-strato cylinder), before they were overtaken by EPA and the need for strato saws. A 261 based on the 361 design would surely would have been much superior to what eventually was offered....

 

[scott06903]

ms361 28" bar too big agree but...

I agree that the bar is too big, for normal use I will keep the 20" bar on it. I bought this size bar because I have some big trees down that need to be cleaned up. Most of the larger trees are white pine like the one in the pic below. I do have one oak with a trunk of similar a little bigger than the pine in the pic. What I have been doing is cutting the large trunk pieces with the 28" and then switching to the 20" as the diameter decreases. Optimal no, but in a pinch it works out ok I guess.

To date most of the cutting has been on the pines, I helped a friend cut a large oak, that was the first time I used the saw on oak. It was with the 28" bar in oak where I noticed the shuttering. Based on the replies it seems I had an unrealistic expectation of how the saw would perform because all I had cut prior was pine. I know oak is harder, but man this stuff is like rock. I am using a new chain and "touch up" the cutters after each tank with 3 strokes of a file using a simple guide.

I put the saw back together again and tuned with a tach. The WOT rpm is set at 13800 (a little under max speed per manual of 14000) and the idle at 2800 which matches the service manual.

I have read the threads about the muffler mod and will probably do this at some point. I understand that the carb needs to be readjusted after and the limiter caps removed, where are new caps available, is this an item a dealer would carry?

So far I am happy with the saw and it is pretty easy to use, it starts easily every
time.

thx

View attachment 265950

 

[Evanrude]

To remove the caps, you need a drywall screw and should have the carb removed (it makes it a lot easier to line up the slot with the peg). Once you can see what you're doing, turn the cap until you see the peg inside line up with the slot on the carb. Insert the drywall screw into the hole in the cap, try not to turn the cap. Then just pull on the head of the screw to remove the cap from the adjuster. A little tricky but after a few, you'll have it down pat.

You can reuse the limiter caps after you pull them. Just trim the little peg off on the side of the cap with a razor blade. Then just re-install them onto the adj screws.

 

[huskydude]

To date most of the cutting has been on the pines, I helped a friend cut a large oak, that was the first time I used the saw on oak. It was with the 28" bar in oak where I noticed the shuttering. Based on the replies it seems I had an unrealistic expectation of how the saw would perform because all I had cut prior was pine. I know oak is harder, but man this stuff is like rock. I am using a new chain and "touch up" the cutters after each tank with 3 strokes of a file using a simple guide.


thx

View attachment 265950

Not sure what kind of oak it is but....red oak is tough stuff. New chains won't even throw nice chips in that stuff. But it smells great, burns great, and splits great!!!!

 

[SawTroll]

....
I put the saw back together again and tuned with a tach. The WOT rpm is set at 13800 (a little under max speed per manual of 14000) and the idle at 2800 which matches the service manual.

....

That should be a good place to start, provided it sounds right and throttle response is good.

 

[nmurph]

...So far I am happy with the saw and it is pretty easy to use, it starts easily every
time.

thx

View attachment 265950

361's are very nice saws.

What breed is your woodcutting buddy?