Surveyor needs pro tips/advice

[ronball]

Hi, I'm new to this site, and it seems like almost all of my chainsaw questions has showed up here in google searches, so I figured I'd come here and ask a few questions...as you guys seem to know your stuff.

I basically have just got into oil field surveying about 10 months ago, and recently they've put me through a chainsaw bucking/basic falling (allowed to cut up to 6" diameter) safety course.

So now that I've got my safety ticket and I'm in better shape than some of my counterparts, I'm getting drafted for these cutting jobs.

I basically have started out with a company saw: an old husky 272. It's a great saw and has cut everything I needed to cut so far without any problems. It's not too heavy, and starts on the first pull every time.

My only complaints is that maintaining it seems to be a challenge for me, and I burn through gas/bar chain oil that I thought I would. I usually run out after 1.5 hours. (I don't really stop)

I never know how tight I need the chain to be. I was told that if I pull on the chain at the center, the tension should not allow the chain to come off the bar until after the 3rd cutting link. I was also told that if the chain is slightly moving while idleing, that it's too tight? Sound right?

Anyways, my company (and most surveying companies) will pay us to run our own saws. My company will pay me an additional $11/hr if I use my own, so I really can see it being profitable. It just seems like such a waste for me to be earning my company that much more money for me to be doing basically a different profession.

My questions:

-For $11 more per hour, is it worth it for me to run my own saw? Will maintenance cost and initial investment pay off? How much money do you find you pour into these things?

-Do you guys use camelbaks while cutting? I find I'm sweating up a storm doing it (especially while cutting through muskeg/bog) and because I move about 1/4 mile every 2-3 hours, it's a pain to go back to bump up supplies.

-Pants: Chaps or pants? I can really see how chaps are causing me to overheat. It could just be the company issued ones are too thick? Are there thiner chaps out there that don't sacrafice protection? I mean, these suckers are about a half inch thick. It's a bit of a dilemma for me, because it gets really cold here in the winter (which chaps would be great). -35 degrees celcius was a pretty common temperature for me this past winter. I think my solution is probably just to get both. What are your experiences with chaps vs pants?

-Saw to buy: I will mostly be cutting down black spruce and poplar trees here in Alberta. Largest spruce/poplar seem to get up to 16-18". The 272 has been more than up for the job, but price wise the 372 is just out of my range. I have seen a husky 365 (65cc) that is basically a slightly weaker (but newer) version of my 272. I think that would be a solid buy at 800. But, if I go out of my way, I can get a stihl 441 for the same price, which is newer and matches the power of the 272. I hear it's a heavier saw though, and because I cut line with a lot of other gear, it may just be overkill for what I do. Any thoughts?

-Any tips/links to how to handle hazard/awkward trees? The course was great at teaching me how to buck and trim trees fine. It also showed me how to properly aim where the tree will fall with my notches, but there didn't seem to be any advice on tricky trees that I'll come across: IE: trees that are hung up on other trees, ones that have more than one "tree" sharing a stump; How to cut trees in windthrows, wedging techniques, etc. Do you guys have any tips or resources that you know I may find helpful? (Videos, posts etc)

I know my course only calls for smaller trees, but I don't think it's safe to keep me in the dark on those subjects.

I am a sponge to all feedback guys. Your experience will help with my safety. Thanks for reading this much.

 

[T_F_E]

I have my gas oil and water jug tied together with a nylon strap. Depends how long your job is to determine weather or not you should buy a saw. But a saw is an decent investment and they they take some money to maintain. Stick with chaps. Best way to learn is to watch someone who knows what they are doing and experience. Up to 6 inch trees sounds pretty much like brushin to me and you probably dont need to notch most of them

 

[madhatte]

I swear by my Camelbak. I have the 100-oz one in a pack with a big outside pocket, which stores a first-aid kit, and a leather pad on the shoulder for packin' the saw, and two sets of earplugs in a box hung just below the pad. I wear it under my cruiser's vest and over my line gear.

$11/hr? Aw, hell, man, on a couple of the saws I've got, you're looking at free money after less than an hour. Let's say you buy new, and go large at about $800 -- that's 100 hours before free money. Assume that you are good at maintenance and don't have to hire out for stuff like sharpening chains. You still need to buy fluids and parts. Sometimes stuff will break.

Still, if I was given that choice, I'd grab a saw from the shed and go to town.

Chaps vs. Pants: If you're not running a saw all day every day for months at a time, chaps will serve you fine. Spend the extra and go 9- or 10-ply. Fun hint: unhook the legs but not the waist and you can cool off quickly by spinning the chaps around to the back.

Chain tightness: there's always gonna be some disagreement on this one, but in general, it should be tight enough to stay on the bar, but loose enough to spin freely by hand when the saw isn't running. I know that casts a wide net, but you'll have to find what works for you.

Tricky trees: find somebody who is more experienced than you to talk to. The only way to learn is to do. Every tree is different. Have a "go-to" guy to call when you find yourself in over your head. Never commit if you feel unsafe. Stop and think. Think more. Make a plan and be ready to abandon it if the situation changes. Look up.

272 is a good machine. If that's what you have, you'll be fine in softwoods up to about 32" DBH. It can be tweaked quite a bit, and there's lots of info on this board as to how. It's about as good a saw as ever was made to be a "first" saw.

Finding this site via Google: Me too! Best collection of know-how on the web regarding tree stuff.

 

[purdyite]

"Great understanding is broad and unhurried; little understanding is cramped and busy." --Chuang-Tzu

"Think. Then think some more". I like that. Oh, and pay attention to your gut feeling.

 

[Billy_Bob]

Watch the entire Stihl "Chain Saw Safety, Operation & Maintenance" video for free here...

http://www.stihldealer.net/videolibrary/OnePlayer.aspx?v=22&vt=22&vb=0&id=22

You can buy the DVD at a Stihl chainsaw dealer.

 

[ronball]

Just an update:

I went ahead and bought a husky 365.

It doesn't have as much bite as the 272 did, but it feels pretty smooth.

My ticket has only allowed for 6" trees, but the nature of my work doesn't exactly allow it. We need to cut miles of line on this job were at, and if there's a tree that falls on that line that is bigger...well...were not exactly going to call in someone to cut down a few trees.

So I've been given a crash course on cutting. I've put about 60-70 hours on my saw since I bought it. I've learned a ton of things since then.

My technique is pretty sharp; I'm putting 95 % of trees where I want them. I'm lucky if I pinch my saw once every two days, and I'm effectively controlling hazards. There has been a lot of dead fall hanging over head that I've been doing really well at controlling. I think that's one of my biggest hazards out here...they move much less predictably.

I've had to fall a few trees up to 20" in diameter. I've used my wedges for them, and they've fallen effectively.

I've found a trick for putting down trees that try to fall in the direction of my backcut. I've noticed that if you quickly make a series of cuts like you would to bring down a loaded limb, it will put more pressure on that side of the tree, and fall, retaining the holding wood. It may go 180 degrees from where I wanted to put it, but it's much safer than treating it like a hung up tree. I will try and put a wedge in before it hits that stage, but often those trees aren't large enough to complete my backcut if I do. (6-10")

I've gotten much better at dealing with hangers, but I've had to literally cut down a 70' tall tree down to the last 10 to get it out. It happens more often then I'd like.

When you guys deal with hangers, how do you usually make your cuts? Do you try to make it so that when the tree falls down a level, that the bottom of the tree is flat? Or do you cut it as if it were laying vertically on the ground and you were bucking it: so that it makes a sharper edge when it comes down? I usually do the sharper edge thing, but it doesnt seem that safe, but wouldn't it pinch if I tried any other way?

Do you usually treat hangers the same way with smaller trees (up to 10") as you do larger? (10"+)

I really do like cutting. It's very much a strategy game. The only problem is my hands are soooo stiff. It's making for hard guitar playing...lol

 

[Chris Francis]

Using a chainsaw to cut trees

Sounds like you are coming right along. Ideally, you want to make a "hinge" out of your felling cut. Practice on some tall stumps. That holding wood will determine where your tree will go. Keep both hands on the saw. Always stay clear of the kickback zone. As a victim of a chainsaw injury (1-handed kickback with no chaps), I can tell you that it happens so fast... like lightning. No matter how fast your reflexes are, you cannot move out of the way. Plan ahead! I know the chaps are hot, but you can take them off during breaks. Pants are not as easy. I like pants for the coldest days of the winter, but swinging a saw around can make you forget how cold it is outside. You made the right decision to buy a saw and take the extra $11 per hour. Take care of it, and it will last you a very long time. Saws are addictive though, much like guns or tattoos: you can't have just one. There are worse things to spend your money on though. Be careful of the dead stuff, even if it is not in the tree you are cutting. Always pay close attention to those dead limbs, as they tend to "jump" out at you at just the right, uh, wrong moment. As for cutting (no matter the size of the trunk or limb), you want to stay out of the compression wood because that is where your saw will bind and/or kick back. If in doubt, widdle a bit to see. One more tip: always cut the brush off before bucking because those small branches could be springloaded or could be loading a larger limb or trunk. Be careful out there.