I terminated my knut right to my d rings ( I have never needed to take off my lanyard) then a small mongoose caribiner behind it for tending. The rope is kmIII 7/16 I think. I also have a peice of 1/2" tubular webbing about 12" long just past the snap. I really like how it works and it is very light.
Swabish
- Thread starter BigJohn
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Mike I honeslyt don't use the lanyard much at all. When just started out climbing I used it all the time. I evern had two big ones! Yes sometimes a climbing line does slow you down. You can either leave it behind if you do bring a lanyard or just put a lot of slack in it. You have to look at it like rock climbing there are plenty of holds. Here is a technique I use often. I will climb by just grabing with just one finer around a sucker. One finger can get close and you can pull a lot of weight on it. Not all the branches you grab have to be big. Keep your weight over your feet and don't think about haveing to keep your self in place or keeping your balance. Just look at your work think about the limb or sucker you want to cut and whole balance will come its natural.
dbeck
ArboristSite Operative
I agree w/ some of bigjohn and mike's comments
Mike is correct about the lanyarding in while working...always do it. I remember tom dunlap's sneeze or bee test here. working while not tied in does not pass this test. if you are out even just a little ways from your tip, a slip could mean broken bones or torn cartilage/tendons, to say the least.
bigjohn is correct about the balance coming naturally. it took some time for me to realize that, but once i did i was much more comfortable in the tree. I do however still lanyard in while working(100% of the time while chainsawing, that is regulation right?). The extra time spent to lanyard in may actually be worht it someday
Mike is correct about the lanyarding in while working...always do it. I remember tom dunlap's sneeze or bee test here. working while not tied in does not pass this test. if you are out even just a little ways from your tip, a slip could mean broken bones or torn cartilage/tendons, to say the least.
bigjohn is correct about the balance coming naturally. it took some time for me to realize that, but once i did i was much more comfortable in the tree. I do however still lanyard in while working(100% of the time while chainsawing, that is regulation right?). The extra time spent to lanyard in may actually be worht it someday
Wow, i'm going thru rating threads, this is a clear 5.......
i think of lifeline as main support, lanyard as anti sway device ussually, while doubling as backup for a failsafe system, while running any power cutting instrument around the frail thread of nylon i hang from. Maybe just cuz i'm chort, it seems like farther down thar......
StumperrrrrrrrrrrMan......; don't flinch now.......!
MM-The big aluminum snap on the previously pictured lanyard was a request, in Sherrill catalog, the other snap, was one of his to reuse. i like making them diffrent snaps on diffrent sides, figure it helps keep'em straight. i use single small aluminum Sherrill snap myself. Host lanyard line is 1/2" NE SafetyBlue HyVee; is smaller suggested? The knut friction hitches are 3/8" double braid, looking to 5/16" at next evolution. i cuts my tooths on pines, freaking palms suck; guees i've got used to the sap more than the "insulation" type dust, razor teeth, infestations etc. Freaking hate palms, and 'monkey puzzle trees. Though not as much, cuz i just don't do them!
i have tied knut right to D-ring for buddy, then threaded lanyard thru D for even better tending; he took it off. Though i always thought it whould werk! i've seen i think of 2 pictures of Tom's DETA, always kinda had this idea, didn't think his was quite the same. Never would want to take credit for someone else's efforts. In fact in all my humble explorations often ponder on how many independant thoughts i really have. i hope i always have lent all credit due.
Guess i'll cut this from above and paste here like this.........
i really like my Sherrill Aluminum snap(16010). When i first fot it i thought it would be to light to snap and boomerang around to loop back to me, grab lines, clear frail deadwood etc. It sat on the shelf for a while! But it is perfect! Just like that funny looking twisted clevis thingy(15991). Both i bought as new toys then was leary of, then found them to be that higher, simple refinement, that you wouldn't usually think of......
i can move my microscender under my own lil load, just not smoothly at extremes in positioning. Sometimes with a high friction support just by adjusting my weight so that the friction holds my weight and the microscender is almost free. Might even help to pull on the tightening end of the lanyard just enough to where the cam is about to move and then thumb the cam, just as it wants to re-lease anyway. i always try to go with the flow, find the way it wants to work, then put mine on top of that.
Prolly just a short guy fling; i've always walked amongst giants. In some ways that has given me the proper mindset i try to tell myself. Gotta stay happy somehow!
Gotta go, back to the lab........
O here is my pic of Knut, on too little of bridge (like i like), made in experi-mental line from the toybox, with thimble (just to try, don't know why), on illegitamate snap, riding a neglected, aged Wall Max host line, with 'lectrickall tape...........
:alien:
i think of lifeline as main support, lanyard as anti sway device ussually, while doubling as backup for a failsafe system, while running any power cutting instrument around the frail thread of nylon i hang from. Maybe just cuz i'm chort, it seems like farther down thar......
StumperrrrrrrrrrrMan......
; don't flinch now.......! MM-The big aluminum snap on the previously pictured lanyard was a request, in Sherrill catalog, the other snap, was one of his to reuse. i like making them diffrent snaps on diffrent sides, figure it helps keep'em straight. i use single small aluminum Sherrill snap myself. Host lanyard line is 1/2" NE SafetyBlue HyVee; is smaller suggested? The knut friction hitches are 3/8" double braid, looking to 5/16" at next evolution. i cuts my tooths on pines, freaking palms suck; guees i've got used to the sap more than the "insulation" type dust, razor teeth, infestations etc. Freaking hate palms, and 'monkey puzzle trees. Though not as much, cuz i just don't do them!
i have tied knut right to D-ring for buddy, then threaded lanyard thru D for even better tending; he took it off. Though i always thought it whould werk! i've seen i think of 2 pictures of Tom's DETA, always kinda had this idea, didn't think his was quite the same. Never would want to take credit for someone else's efforts. In fact in all my humble explorations often ponder on how many independant thoughts i really have. i hope i always have lent all credit due.
Guess i'll cut this from above and paste here like this.........
i really like my Sherrill Aluminum snap(16010). When i first fot it i thought it would be to light to snap and boomerang around to loop back to me, grab lines, clear frail deadwood etc. It sat on the shelf for a while! But it is perfect! Just like that funny looking twisted clevis thingy(15991). Both i bought as new toys then was leary of, then found them to be that higher, simple refinement, that you wouldn't usually think of......
i can move my microscender under my own lil load, just not smoothly at extremes in positioning. Sometimes with a high friction support just by adjusting my weight so that the friction holds my weight and the microscender is almost free. Might even help to pull on the tightening end of the lanyard just enough to where the cam is about to move and then thumb the cam, just as it wants to re-lease anyway. i always try to go with the flow, find the way it wants to work, then put mine on top of that.
Prolly just a short guy fling; i've always walked amongst giants. In some ways that has given me the proper mindset i try to tell myself. Gotta stay happy somehow!
Gotta go, back to the lab........
O here is my pic of Knut, on too little of bridge (like i like), made in experi-mental line from the toybox, with thimble (just to try, don't know why), on illegitamate snap, riding a neglected, aged Wall Max host line, with 'lectrickall tape...........
:alien:
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Kneejerk Bombas
ArboristSite King
Bigjohn, it sounds like you are trading in commonly accepted safety techniques, for speed in the tree. I don't think from an employers point of veiw, that is a good trade off.
If you worked for me, or with me, I wouldn't trade in a thousand very productive days, for one serious accident. If you press your luck, you increase the odds of a serious injury accident, which is devistating to the company, not to mention the family of the one hurt.
I hear what you are saying about confidently moving through a tree. With a little practice, you could do that AND be tied in safely, thereby becoming a much more valuable climber.
To those that read here, you're here to improve your climbing. Taking shortcuts in safe working habits won't help you become a better climber, not in the long run.
Tree work should be sold so that the work can be done safely. If you feel that you need to tear through the tree to make your money, then the selling needs to be changed. Fast wreckless work is for the fly-by-nites.
As a homeowner, I would feel ripped off if I hired a company to work for me and they performed their service in a fast, unsafe manner, even if it was cheaper.
If you worked for me, or with me, I wouldn't trade in a thousand very productive days, for one serious accident. If you press your luck, you increase the odds of a serious injury accident, which is devistating to the company, not to mention the family of the one hurt.
I hear what you are saying about confidently moving through a tree. With a little practice, you could do that AND be tied in safely, thereby becoming a much more valuable climber.
To those that read here, you're here to improve your climbing. Taking shortcuts in safe working habits won't help you become a better climber, not in the long run.
Tree work should be sold so that the work can be done safely. If you feel that you need to tear through the tree to make your money, then the selling needs to be changed. Fast wreckless work is for the fly-by-nites.
As a homeowner, I would feel ripped off if I hired a company to work for me and they performed their service in a fast, unsafe manner, even if it was cheaper.
Kneejerk Bombas
ArboristSite King
Anyone who hasn't tried a rope thinner than 1/2" should give it a try, just so it meets the MBS for climbing line. Guys who like longer lanyards should think about elongation too. Thinner is much more better, IMO.
Tim Gardner
ArboristSite Guru
I have used stiff 7/16" static for climbing line and lanyard but every time I mention it I get yelled at. I stopped using the static for the lanyard because I nicked it with my saw and the cover exploded and the core pufffed up. It looked worse than it was and scared me pretty good. Now I am using 16 strand until I can get a hank of The Fly. Kind of hard to buy new gear while recovering from three months of not climbing.
I stopped using the static for the lanyard because I nicked it with my saw and the cover exploded and the core pufffed up. It looked worse than it was and scared me pretty good. Now I am using 16 strand until I can get a hank of The Fly. Kind of hard to buy new gear while recovering from three months of not climbing.
Stumper Man on lanyard length,
the supports of the snaps, friction hithces, brass snaps can keep line zig zagged at calf height, then across back is straight, (laid out in saddle kind like picture) but actually there could be 'droops' of line on either side of that rear support too, for more length.
i'm likeing the more self adjsutable, compact Knut, especially laced through the karab for even easier adjusting. Am looking again to tieing it straight to D wqith Knut on tight stack. The knut is self tending, but you have to pull it to a point / angle that it catches itself. So for getting the most out of each draw of the line i look to short bridges and tight stacks, maybe other tending helps. Using the attatching karab as a tender also as Brian mentioned is helpful here with minimal hardware, truly simple, clean ingenuity i think.
Am looking to Knut tight stack straight to D next, but am trying to envision running the tail of the lanyaard through a light ring held too by the barrels; searching for more immediate tending pulling straight back as well as to the side. Pulling the Knut to the side, especially thru karab gives best immediate tending i think i witness, pulling straight back and not to the side, necessitates the need for the reversing of the bridge (play of 2x it's length in drawing of line), sso that the base ring of the hitch can tension, to enact the self tending feature. i've been working on minimizing that. Thus the short bridge, and stiff barrel table immediately under the knut in my strategies. Guess i'm jest being lazy not making the barrels each time, taking the slack into one and ggirthing (or round turning if too tight) around karab to render tight stack of knut on this table.
Back to the lab......
:alien:
the supports of the snaps, friction hithces, brass snaps can keep line zig zagged at calf height, then across back is straight, (laid out in saddle kind like picture) but actually there could be 'droops' of line on either side of that rear support too, for more length.
i'm likeing the more self adjsutable, compact Knut, especially laced through the karab for even easier adjusting. Am looking again to tieing it straight to D wqith Knut on tight stack. The knut is self tending, but you have to pull it to a point / angle that it catches itself. So for getting the most out of each draw of the line i look to short bridges and tight stacks, maybe other tending helps. Using the attatching karab as a tender also as Brian mentioned is helpful here with minimal hardware, truly simple, clean ingenuity i think.
Am looking to Knut tight stack straight to D next, but am trying to envision running the tail of the lanyaard through a light ring held too by the barrels; searching for more immediate tending pulling straight back as well as to the side. Pulling the Knut to the side, especially thru karab gives best immediate tending i think i witness, pulling straight back and not to the side, necessitates the need for the reversing of the bridge (play of 2x it's length in drawing of line), sso that the base ring of the hitch can tension, to enact the self tending feature. i've been working on minimizing that. Thus the short bridge, and stiff barrel table immediately under the knut in my strategies. Guess i'm jest being lazy not making the barrels each time, taking the slack into one and ggirthing (or round turning if too tight) around karab to render tight stack of knut on this table.
Back to the lab......
:alien:
i think that static line (thinking kernmantle) is so tight, and so tight in the 'kern' presurized against it's sausage casing 'mantle', that popping a hole in the sausage casing or 'hose' will let all that force flow out at point of pressure re-lease.
Also when i did it i could see quickly how ballistic nylon works, chokes a saw like dang moss!
i think that dynamic kern wouldn't have this tendency so dramatically, but more so than braid and simple 3 strand, which wouldn't tend to explode, and also tend to isolate damage more.
IM,L,H,A,O
:alien:
Also when i did it i could see quickly how ballistic nylon works, chokes a saw like dang moss!
i think that dynamic kern wouldn't have this tendency so dramatically, but more so than braid and simple 3 strand, which wouldn't tend to explode, and also tend to isolate damage more.
IM,L,H,A,O
:alien:
Tim Gardner
ArboristSite Guru
The thing about that stiff static kernmantle is that almost all the strength is in the core and not the cover. But is does look pretty scary when the core puffs up. From what I have been told about The Fly is that it performs like the static kernmantal, light and glides smooth over limbs and gear but has a more durable cover. Just not sure I will dig the fact that it is dynamic. The lack of stretch is one of the benifits I like most about static kernmantle.
From what I have been told about The Fly is that it performs like the static kernmantal, light and glides smooth over limbs and gear but has a more durable cover. Just not sure I will dig the fact that it is dynamic. The lack of stretch is one of the benifits I like most about static kernmantle.
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
Off NER page
ELONGATION:
5.0% per NFPA
2.5% per EN 1891
http://www.neropes.com/markets/default_new_products.htm
ELONGATION:
5.0% per NFPA
2.5% per EN 1891
http://www.neropes.com/markets/default_new_products.htm
Whenever i read the standards for lifelines, i always ass-i-me(d) that part of the 1/2 " line specification was for abrasian, heat, slight close calls with hand and power cutting tools etc.
Was this ever a consideration? Was it unnecessary? Are there any real such risks with thinner chords and lanyards?
MM, et al. what is your choices for lanyard and lanyard friction hitches for lanyard?
i think all easily working mechanics is about balance, and the little bit of offside pull to empower your wishes. Whether climbing or rigging, set up self working balances, that need little correction. Whether in your stance or rigged line. Ummmmm wait that might be for that philosophy thread......
:alien:
edit, Endura braid from NE as per JP's link, at 5/16" is a whopping 7k! While 1/4" is coming in at 4k, so is that close enough to Sailnet 5/16" at 4400# is 1/4" next?
Was this ever a consideration? Was it unnecessary? Are there any real such risks with thinner chords and lanyards?
MM, et al. what is your choices for lanyard and lanyard friction hitches for lanyard?
i think all easily working mechanics is about balance, and the little bit of offside pull to empower your wishes. Whether climbing or rigging, set up self working balances, that need little correction. Whether in your stance or rigged line. Ummmmm wait that might be for that philosophy thread......
:alien:
edit, Endura braid from NE as per JP's link, at 5/16" is a whopping 7k! While 1/4" is coming in at 4k, so is that close enough to Sailnet 5/16" at 4400# is 1/4" next?
Tim Gardner
ArboristSite Guru
I have used NE's 5 mm Tech Cord (5,000 lb test) for a tress cord and it works very well. However, you need more wraps to keep it from burning the finger tips like 5/16" cords will do.
Tim Gardner
ArboristSite Guru
O.K. I was wrong. It does grab.
Stumper
One Man Band
Here is a pic of my new 14' Bare Ended Double Adjusting lanyard.
The lanyard is Wall 3 strand hard lay polyester. The hitches are Distels-the green is 3/8 Sta set, the white is 5/16 Sta set. Bronze swivel snaps serve as slack tenders. Wall knots serve as stoppers and the rope is relaid and whipped beyond the stopper knots. The double locking aluminium snaps are pretty thin so I padded the tress cord attachments by ring hitching the snaps with nylon twine. I have only made 2 climbs on this set up but so far I am pleased.
The lanyard is Wall 3 strand hard lay polyester. The hitches are Distels-the green is 3/8 Sta set, the white is 5/16 Sta set. Bronze swivel snaps serve as slack tenders. Wall knots serve as stoppers and the rope is relaid and whipped beyond the stopper knots. The double locking aluminium snaps are pretty thin so I padded the tress cord attachments by ring hitching the snaps with nylon twine. I have only made 2 climbs on this set up but so far I am pleased.
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Tim Gardner
ArboristSite Guru
How does it work? Does a section of rope hanging down from the snap get in the way while putting it around a limb or spar?
Stumper
One Man Band
As I mentioned in my edited addition to the first post I've only used it a couple of days. Thus far the tag end hanging hasn't been a problem. It actually allows me to whip the end around a trunk without having to catch a knuckle banging snap. Running the snap to the end works fine for making a toss through a crotch, Retrieval through a tight crotch is a little more difficult than pulling through an eyespliced snap.
Running the snap to the end works fine for making a toss through a crotch, Retrieval through a tight crotch is a little more difficult than pulling through an eyespliced snap.
