The "Not So Pro" discussion thread...of course Pros are welcome!

[rwoods]

I thought my face cut was rather large on that one. Other than occasionally a little steering so I don't have to stand under questionable limbs, I fall those boogers with the lean as well. Quite often with the "dead dead" ones, most of the limbs seem to be on the lean side fortunately.

My dozer seat time is very little and is basically limited to moving dirt to stock piles. I like the both sides churning while turning of the hydrostats; seems to me that they push a lot more dirt when you are taking everything to a common pile.

Ron

 

[catbuster]

Dozers have zero standards for controls.

I would guess with that 750 the three pedals are as follows:
-Left: Steer left.
-Center: Combo decelerator/brake
-Right: Steer right.

It probably has a U shaped powershift transmission, which is a good transmission, much better than a Komatsu powertrain.

They’re easy to run, it just takes some seat time to get familiar. The upshot to that control pattern was that it was the exact same drive controls as Deere’s crawler loaders (high lifts). As such, a 750 and 755 drove and steered the same. A lot of the older crawlers from the “farm” manufacturers (JD, Case, MF) were in fact the same. It was usually the manufacturers like Caterpillar that had different control patterns for dozers & crawler loaders. This is obviously not the case (ha) now, as if you were to hop into a 750L and then into a 755K the control patterns are radically different. They have adopted the standard Caterpillar and Komatsu has set for the industry, however when the smaller cralwers were sold to farmers they were often sold as track-type tractors with the loaders/dozer blades intended to be interchangeable.

I know you’re probably used to your tractor, but every piece of gear is different and it is critical to treat them as such. Especially between types pf machines. Just about every dozer jas a decelerator pedal, the rest is up for discussion. There’s an old saying to the effect of “you either have the ass for it or not” in terms of having the feel to run equipment-which, by the way, one of my first foremen told me that he didn’t think I have-, and the dozer is probably the piece of heavy equipment someone runs the most by feel.

You’ll get there, I don’t doubt it one bit. But it’s a totally different feel than what you’re used to being on. I personally like running a dozer more than any other piece of heavy machinery, with the Cat D5K XL being my favorite of all. There’s something about being connected to the ground and being able to feel everything beneath you as you work it that feels awesome. Mind, I didn’t say I was most productive on a dozer. I’m much better on a hoe or a high lift, but do I love running a dozer.

 

[rwoods]

Not even an amateur on any dirt moving equipment, but I like hand controls and running dozers (except in transport when they beat you to death). For me, they have that better feel you mentioned. Backhoes and trackhoes are out of my league - too much like trying to play a guitar, each hand affecting the string. I hate foot bucket controls on skidsteers.

Ron

 

[madhatte]

I like a ludacrisly large face cut on stubby snags, and fall em with the lean when ever possible.

Agreed. The stable dead ones with no leverage need a hand and that hand is putting the weight forward of the center of gravity. A deep face is the safest way to do that, provided there's enough missing up top that you don't add barberchair potential. Don't remember who it was taught me that but it has saved my bacon a few times now.

 

[Bwildered]

On the money:
View attachment 939702

Deere 750B LT with about 12,500# of red oak attached - 55' stem at the cut and 20' above. No problem. Later pulled a large forked poplar. As you guys said it cleaned out everything in its way - which was plenty with the fork.

NM. it was one of your posts in another thread that raised the question in my mind since it was going to be a dead drag for a short distance before I could rig it to by lifted. Also had in mind grenadeing my hydraulic winch last season with a dead drag.

First dozer I have operated that steers with your feet - and that has no hand holds (I assume they want to force belt use).

Ron

It looks like you're snigging backwards pulling off the blade, to lift the log ends, if you make a habit of it, it will wear out the track bushes & sprockets quicker , as the tracks are meant to be loaded in forward motion

 

[stihl023/5]

Good morning 34/40° rain

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

 

[catbuster]

It looks like you're snigging backwards pulling off the blade, to lift the log ends, if you make a habit of it, it will wear out the track bushes & sprockets quicker , as the tracks are meant to be loaded in forward motion

That’s ********. A tractor isn’t bouncing around like an excavator. You’ll put more wear on the thing trying to drag logs through the mud than getting some lift on the thing and letting the track tensioners act as a spring, which is what they’re supposed to be doing.

Ripping and pulling over the back are the two hardest things on a bulldozer undercarriage. It’s because the sprocket is pulling the bottom and all the forces act on the final drive end of the undercarriage. In this case, Ron put the weight on the idler.

Dozers with the final drive at the rear of the undercarriage wear track components, and it doesn’t really make a lot of difference how you load them. I have the service records from the last decade to prove it. High drive dozers cost so little to maintain because the final drive is between two idlers and all the loading on it is the tension of the track.

Excavators, log loaders and some crawler cranes are a different story. Digging over the final drive is hard on the undercarriage because the final drive is acting as the fulcrum about which the machine balances. Cannon style track adjusters act as shock absorbers-and are meant to take the load. That’s why you dig over your idlers, and hammer over your final drives, where the excavator is pushing up and loading the idlers.

 

[rwoods]

Not to worry, that may have been my first and last use of the 750B. I stay off trackhoes despite the occasional offers.

Lifting the stem took a tremendous strain off the chains and made for a safer pull. If I ever pull again with a dozer, I will use my own chains. Having 20’ of an unknown chain aimed at you is not my idea of safe. In hindsight, I should have pulled it from the rear until I could short chain it and then lifted and pulled with the blade. Maybe the next dozer will have a winch, or a ripper that could add lift.

Ron

 

[Bwildered]

That’s ********. A tractor isn’t bouncing around like an excavator. You’ll put more wear on the thing trying to drag logs through the mud than getting some lift on the thing and letting the track tensioners act as a spring, which is what they’re supposed to be doing.

Ripping and pulling over the back are the two hardest things on a bulldozer undercarriage. It’s because the sprocket is pulling the bottom and all the forces act on the final drive end of the undercarriage. In this case, Ron put the weight on the idler.

Dozers with the final drive at the rear of the undercarriage wear track components, and it doesn’t really make a lot of difference how you load them. I have the service records from the last decade to prove it. High drive dozers cost so little to maintain because the final drive is between two idlers and all the loading on it is the tension of the track.

Excavators, log loaders and some crawler cranes are a different story. Digging over the final drive is hard on the undercarriage because the final drive is acting as the fulcrum about which the machine balances. Cannon style track adjusters act as shock absorbers-and are meant to take the load. That’s why you dig over your idlers, and hammer over your final drives, where the excavator is pushing up and loading the idlers.

I'll be more specific, track pins , bushes & sprocket wear is accelerated by running loaded in reverse, in forward motion the bush engages the bottom of the sprocket and doesn't rotate on engagement, when the bush reaches the top of the sprocket it rotates off the sprocket , but isn't loaded, when the track direction is reversed the top of the sprocket is loaded the bush rotates and grinds the contact face of the sprocket & bush, the more load in reverse the more wear will occur. If you didn't know that, then you've learned something new today





UNDERSTAND FORWARD AND REVERSE WEAR. When a crawler machine is moving forward, li le wear occurs assuming that the chain is properly adjusted. In forward, the only point at which the bushing rotates or slides in the sprocket tooth is at about the 12 o’clock posi on, just before exi ng the sprocket. But at this point, the bushing is under virtually no load, and the significance of the rela ve mo on between the two parts is minimal. In forward, most of the load is on the few bushings between the six and eight o’clock posi ons at the bo om of the sprocket, where no rela ve mo on occurs between the two parts.

When the machine moves in reverse, however, 85 percent of the load on the track chain is concentrated near the top of the sprocket, just where the bushing must rotate against the sprocket tooth. As a result, more wear normally will occur on the reverse-drive side of the sprocket tooth.

 

[rwoods]

Below is why I liken my falling to the blind squirrel that occasionally finds an acorn. I tried to save a small eastern red cedar today when falling a dead twin trunk ash.
Ash.


Cedar safe and sound.
Looks like I did good. Actually, I misjudged the height of the twinning and thought the trunks would stay together.

My actual skill level is better shown here - the poor little cedar lost its top and most of its limbs thirty minutes later.

Was trying to swing the tree to the right of the now splintered tree but didn't quite make it so the falling tree slid into the cedar.

Be safe.
Ron

 

[northmanlogging]

Below is why I liken my falling to the blind squirrel that occasionally finds an acorn. I tried to save a small eastern red cedar today when falling a dead twin trunk ash.
Ash.
View attachment 941023

Cedar safe and sound.
View attachment 941024Looks like I did good. Actually, I misjudged the height of the twinning and thought the trunks would stay together.

My actual skill level is better shown here - the poor little cedar lost its top and most of its limbs thirty minutes later.
View attachment 941025
Was trying to swing the tree to the right of the now splintered tree but didn't quite make it so the falling tree slid into the cedar.

Be safe.
Ron

Yer probably better then most the "experts" here, a little humility goes a long ways.

 

[rwoods]

When things go right, it is easy for me to think I am better than I am. I love challenges, but at the end of the day I want to go home in one piece knowing I didn’t hurt anyone either.

Ron

 

[northmanlogging]

When things go right, it is easy for me to think I am better than I am. I love challenges, but at the end of the day I want to go home in one piece knowing I didn’t hurt anyone either.

Ron

It would be fun to get you into some green straight tall timber and see what you can tear up... have to take into consideration the usual messes you do deal with and the fact that most of them go relatively well. Snag falling is a crap shoot on the best of days.

 

[catbuster]

Ron, you’re good. You have the gall to put it on the internet. You tend to get into a mess because of the type work you do. I know how it goes. You’re just super humble about it, and it is refreshing.

Also, @Bwildered, I didn’t learn a single thing from your post. Ripping loads the sprocket in the same way, and as we all know ripper tractors’ undercarriages live a shorter-than-normal life. With all of that said, it is still easier on the tractor as a whole to not have to yank the damn thing through the mud. It’s hard on those pins and sprockets spinning all in that abrasive material. Dozer undercarriages live a hard life. As dismissive as it may sound, dragging logs in reverse is not going to cause premature sprocket, pin, or bushing death.

 

[Bwildered]

Ron, you’re good. You have the gall to put it on the internet. You tend to get into a mess because of the type work you do. I know how it goes. You’re just super humble about it, and it is refreshing.

Also, @Bwildered, I didn’t learn a single thing from your post. Ripping loads the sprocket in the same way, and as we all know ripper tractors’ undercarriages live a shorter-than-normal life. With all of that said, it is still easier on the tractor as a whole to not have to yank the damn thing through the mud. It’s hard on those pins and sprockets spinning all in that abrasive material. Dozer undercarriages live a hard life. As dismissive as it may sound, dragging logs in reverse is not going to cause premature sprocket, pin, or bushing death.

I only stated it’s something he shouldn’t make a habit of, running forward under load is always the best option

 

[rwoods]

As advised, I don’t need to worry about the dragging power of a JD 750B - broke a 1/2” cable choker today without missing a beat.

Ron

 

[northmanlogging]

As advised, I don’t need to worry about the dragging power of a JD 750B - broke a 1/2” cable choker today without missing a beat.

Ron

You have officially ****ed around and found out lol.

 

[rwoods]

I am learning everyday. I hear that a real logger would have saved his choker by hooking to the butt and plowing a 1/4 mile u-shaped skid trail instead of trying to pull the top 125' to the clearing as I did.

Ron

 

[rwoods]

Folks here understand that the fact that just because I can move a piece of equipment doesn't make me an operator. Too many who can't, think otherwise despite my protests. Anyway, I am using the 750B again this afternoon to pull some stems from the woods. When I was handed the keys, I was told "You were right the gears were out of oil (the red light with a gear emblem has been flickering but mostly on every time I use it), we have her all greased, fueled and ready to go for you." Well the light stayed on today. I tell them about it. "Why we used X number of grease tubes getting it ready for you. The left side was empty." I said I think it is the transmission that is low from the sounds it makes. "We don't know where you put that in. How does it turn left for you now? See how the grease tightened the track up." I responded, yes the track is tight - but it looks too tight to me. I recommended an operator's manual and possibly a service manual and I pointed to the little plate on the side that describes correct track tightness. I didn't have my reading glasses so I couldn't give the details. Long intro to: I told them in the meantime I would ask someone who knows if they over-did the tracks with their battery operated grease gun will it hurt anything. Right side is just as tight. The pictures below are taken after a forward stop. What do you say? If damaging, how do they back it off? And if you know, how do you check the transmission oil level (I assume it is shared with the hydraulic system, but I don't know), where do you fill it and what favor does it take? I also see no evidence that they checked each planetary. These guys are all retired LE that pretty much have to do everything at the range that a typical inmate can't.

 

[northmanlogging]

Folks here understand that the fact that just because I can move a piece of equipment doesn't make me an operator. Too many who can't, think otherwise despite my protests. Anyway, I am using the 750B again this afternoon to pull some stems from the woods. When I was handed the keys, I was told "You were right the gears were out of oil (the red light with a gear emblem has been flickering but mostly on every time I use it), we have her all greased, fueled and ready to go for you." Well the light stayed on today. I tell them about it. "Why we used X number of grease tubes getting it ready for you. The left side was empty." I said I think it is the transmission that is low from the sounds it makes. "We don't know where you put that in. How does it turn left for you now? See how the grease tightened the track up." I responded, yes the track is tight - but it looks too tight to me. I recommended an operator's manual and possibly a service manual and I pointed to the little plate on the side that describes correct track tightness. I didn't have my reading glasses so I couldn't give the details. Long intro to: I told them in the meantime I would ask someone who knows if they over-did the tracks with their battery operated grease gun will it hurt anything. Right side is just as tight. The pictures below are taken after a forward stop. What do you say? If damaging, how do they back it off? And if you know, how do you check the transmission oil level (I assume it is shared with the hydraulic system, but I don't know), where do you fill it and what favor does it take? I also see no evidence that they checked each planetary. These guys are all retired LE that pretty much have to do everything at the range that a typical inmate can't.

View attachment 943054View attachment 943055

Yeah... thems tight as F... should be able to just let some of the grease out more or less from the same spot it goes in (SB a big bolt looking thing attached to the zerk) tracks should have some sag in them, especially after driven forwards, it can and will prematurely wear out sprockets, and if super tight destroy a bearing in the finals.


As for trans oil, more then likely accessed through the floor panels somewhere, being a deere product I would guess (and a mighty guess at that) that it takes tractor trans/hydrualic oil or Deere type 303 (read stupid expensive) though a proper service/owners manual would go a long ways.