The woes of C.A.

[xtremetrees]

Hello fellow Certifed Arborist,
For 8 years I have been talking with you here on the net. We have seen several of our brothers pass away and still other become severly injured due to the nature of our work. I pray the trees will continue to be so forgiving to us all.

Becomming C.A. has altered my tree approach. Holding with the ethics of what I now stand behind I can no longer spike my trims.
I've been offered a sales position with several companies. The problem is they cannot do what I am selling I.E. spikeless trimming. So things are different I will adjust.

My ? is this: As I approach prospective clients I'd like to offer more than just bids. Remember, we are charging $125.00 and hour as a C.A. gotta give um something. Is the Computer based Horticopia Arborist edition worth the price?
Is anyone using the tree appreciation slide set?
What other tool should I be considering when approaching sales?

Yes, becomming a C.A. has its merits but its hard for me to see them it is severly restricting me.However, I owe it to the trees and I am bound to never spike a trim. I've had many, many close calls and still the trees are forgiving to me.
I want to be the best steward of trees I can be, what tools do you use in this reguard?
Thanks in advance

 

[xtremetrees]

It certainly seperates the men from the boys Tree Co.

 

[treeseer]

I want to be the best steward of trees I can be, what tools do you use in this reguard?
Thanks in advance

ISA's brochures are 12 cents each; I use them more than anything.. I never bought horticopia. I have viewed the tree appreciation slide set in the past.

 

[diltree]

Work for a company thats has an Aerial Lift 60 ft mini-foot 4x4, The truck has a 90cc turning radius, it can get in almost anywhere, since we have purchased one we hardly ever climb at all. The only climbing we do now is when you need to get into the center of the tree to prune(like on a Norway maple, and we don't use spikes)or a crane Job, otherwise we are all set. I must admit I have used spikes in right of ways....sorry guys :angel:

 

[stehansen]

I just received notification of passing the CA test yesterday. There are a few tree companies around here that will spike their trims also. Most customers assume that their tree guys know what they are doing and if they put spikes on then they must need to have them on and they also assume that if spikes hurt the tree then we wouldn't use them. The word is pretty much out on topping, now we need to do the same with wearing spikes to trim trees.

WE-7315A

 

[treeseer]

The word is pretty much out on topping, now we need to do the same with wearing spikes to trim trees.

We have been, and it bears repeating. After my talk at ISA a guy got up and said that he left stubs sometimes when he figured he had to (good start), but then went on to say that he spiked trims and did i think that was ok.

I told the tale of a tree I was in that was killed by spike wounds imo. After the session some guys tried to find him to find out where he was coming from but he scooted off too fast. I think that his ? was so off the wall, he may have been planted there to discredit stubs, but that may just be paranoia at work.

Spiking like topping will die hard, if leaving stubs on storm-damaged trees is still so controversial. Congrats on your passing the CA, stehansen; may it serve you well, as it has most of us.

 

[clearance]

Right now I am climbing to spiral prune and top trees beside clearcut logging shows so that they don't blow over in the high winds after all the trees around them have been cut down. This trees are along creek edges and are being kept for fish and wildlife reasons, in what are called riparian managment zones. It is in the Queen Charlottes off the coast of British Columbia. Finally I am doing something that is good for nature and myself. So far out in the bush there is no one to complain and even if there were people they would start on the loggers first. Yes we climb with spurs, but this is rainforest and the trees can take it. What a p.c. job, if I spurless climbed I would be next to Jesus. As far as ethics go, be true to yourself and what you believe. I have beefed with people here, been called names and have called others names but it's all good. Work safe and good wishes.

 

[treeseer]

And Good Wishes to you too clearance. Your ROW world is a long way from the urban forest. As some Aussies say on TV, No Rules, Just Right.

You'd be gald to read the new ISA Utility BMP's. They recognize that rural ROW is a very different place, where city ways do not apply.

 

[arboromega]

trimming in spikes of "hook n' prune" is not good for trees. (i dont know about bc where the bark can be inches thick) but here on the east coast there is no tree to prune with spikes.dont do it, dont promote it.

 

[diltree]

Like I said

When I have worked for utilities in right of ways, i had to gaff (spike trees) to get the job done, there was just to many trees in the middle of the woods, and not enough time.

 

[stehansen]

When I have worked for utilities in right of ways, i had to gaff (spike trees) to get the job done, there was just to many trees in the middle of the woods, and not enough time.

Do you know if there is anything about spiking in the contract between the tree co. and the utility co.?

 

[Shaun Bowler]

I believe that if you spike trees for line clearance it would make no difference in regards to the affect of the wounds to the tree. The trees trimmed by line clearance companies would be better off removed anyway for all kinds of reasons.
Nevertheless, I would not use spikes because they would just get in the way.
I work on Blue Gum Eucs. Sometimes there are no limbs for the first 60 ft. These trees are slick as Cat S*it. At 100 ft the DBH is still 30"+. Thick bark and heal fast. If the wind is blowing over 10mph you can get sea sick if you are up there all day.
What about spiking those?

 

[stehansen]

That's what I was thinking that most trees in the powerline right of way are pretty much a nuisance anyway.

 

[diltree]

There is nothing in the contract stating you cant spike trees. In fact, in "right of ways" the utility reserves the right to treat any tree in any way they deem best for well being of electrical service for the community. Basically our policy is: if a tree can not be properly pruned for utility clearance removal is recommended. We use spikes when doing "right of ways" because you have to trim hundreds of trees and there is no access for a Aerial Lift, that specific instance is the only time I use gaffs for pruning.

 

[a_lopa]

im all for spikless trimming,but the climbers saftey comes before the tree.

shaun b, blue gums are weeds spike the lot of them.

guy, whats aussies say on t.v??no rules?

 

[techdave]

No Rules just right-tv ads

Hi A lopa. The No rules just right -comes from adverts for a chain of eateries called "Outback Steakhouse" Ok but a little pricey, and no stubbies of C&P. Just Fosters and something else. No KB either.

They try to play up the casual but cool angle. All in all its ok, I would go more often but--Its just that San Diego is awash in very good cheap Mexican Food.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Work for a company thats has an Aerial Lift 60 ft mini-foot 4x4, The truck has a 90cc turning radius, it can get in almost anywhere, since we have purchased one we hardly ever climb at all. The only climbing we do now is when you need to get into the center of the tree to prune(like on a Norway maple, and we don't use spikes)or a crane Job, otherwise we are all set. I must admit I have used spikes in right of ways....sorry guys :angel:

I wonder if driving around on the root zone is better than just spiking up the tree. Soil compaction is a huge issue.

Spikeless climbing is very easy to learn. The biggest obstacle is if the climber learned to climb on spikes, it tends to make them think it's the only way. Really the only time spikes have a huge advantage is working the spar, and on trims, you don't work the spar.
Foot locking or SRT is fast and easy, easier than spiking up a lot of trees, but if you don't perfect the method, you don't know.

 

[Jumper]

. So far out in the bush there is no one to complain and even if there were people they would start on the loggers first.QUOTE]

Havn't run into any hippie mushroom pickers? That apparently is where a lot of USA draft dodgers from the Vietnam era settled. I spent some time in Masset in the mid 90s and I never saw such a time warp type of a place in my life. Lots of pottery shops, "smoke" shops and apparently the 'shroom" picking was best around the antenna farm at the base, which drove the MPs nuts. I am not anti logging, but travelling through the bush there and seeing the mess left behind by clearcutting gave my an appreciation why people get so PO'd with loggers in general. What a wasteland!!! Enjoy your stay up there.

 

[underwor]

When I first started climbing, we used shorter, pole spikes, mostly on dying elms. They worked fine unless the bark was thick and loose. I now have 3" tree spikes and they seem harder on the calf of my leg. It has been a long time, 15 years, since I tried pole spikes, so this may be old age instead of a difference in spikes. Which length do most of you use?

I will admit to using spikes to get into the lower limbs of Cottonwoods, usually with 3" plus thick bark. I send them down once I get to where I can climb a little easier. I know footlocking is faster and most of my students use it, but the 58 year old knees and back does not flex like it did in the old days. They work for demos in class, but 30' is the farthest I ever got and I rode the safety line down (TCC in Estavan, Sask. 1995).

 

[stehansen]

A quote from the Sherrill Catalog:
"Spikes are moderately to extremely harmful to tree health, and should only be used on removals. Climbing 'maintenance trees' without spikes is far easier than it was just 15 years ago. If you haven't learned to prune without spikes, your prospects for success in this industry are growing limited."