There is a darkness inside my trees

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Chezenbred

ArboristSite Lurker
Joined
Sep 9, 2005
Messages
43
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1
Location
Ellington, CT
As my other thread says, I'm cutting a bunch of trees from my over-wooded lot. I'm noticing that nearly all the trees I'm cutting down have a blackness to the center of them. All of them have been solid (except one that was hollowed), but they still have this black/greyish color in the middle. So far I've only been taking down smaller trees (6-15 inch diameter). Is this something to be concerned about? It's not something I've seen before but I haven't really ever done this much tree work. It doesn't look normal or healthy.
 
post a picture if you want an informed reply. Most trees have heartwood, which is not a problem. Repeating: it really sounds like a little professional help on that property would go a long way toward avoiding mistakes.

The internet is no substitute for a pro on iste.
 
Being a single income family, having someone onsite just isn't going to happen for awhile.. In CT it's a miracle and a lot of sweat that we managed to get a house. I haven't even been able to get a chainsaw.. I've been cutting these trees down and then slicing them up with a 24 inch bowsaw =).

I hope to have someone come out perhaps next fall and take down at least a split oak that is literally against my drop lines to the house. I've been told it's going to cost me over $1k to take that tree down. Perhaps I can solicit advice then, but until then I've got to get more air into the lot and that means I'll keep busy. I was just worried that the darkness means there is some larger picture problem going on. I'll grab a few pics of the problem and post it as soon as I can.
 
Chezenbred said:
I hope to have someone come out perhaps next fall and take down at least a split oak that is literally against my drop lines to the house. I've been told it's going to cost me over $1k to take that tree down.

as a simple homeowner, may i suggest you have someone come onsite to tell you what it'll cost to take that tree down? going by local lore is often faulty-- it might not be that much... my arborist walked my entire lot and talked to me about all my trees, not just the ones i had concern about...

dealing with reality is empowering; dealing with what BillyRay down the street told you he thinks it will cost is paralyzing.
 
It wasn't billy ray.. It was joe bob.

No serisouly it was the arborist for the electric company that told me it'd be over a grand. He said he couldn't be more specific since it he was on duty for the electric company and didn't want to drum up side business while on the clock (honorable). He was at my site topping some evergreens that were into the lines that I have since removed the rest of the way. Likewise, I don't want to waste a pro's time without the intent to actually hire one in the near future. If I'm not planning (or able) to have him (or her) do a paid job within at least a year, it would be misleading and dishonest to lure one onto my site for a quote and try to get general advice and such. At least in my opinion it would be.

My question in this thread was more of a curiosity than something that I'm biting my nails over and horribly concerned about. I'm a new homeowner, and a curious one. I notice things and like to learn about them, so I ask questions. The trees I'm cutting are coming down even if a pro told me it'd start bearing $20 bills as fruit. Ok, maybe not that one.. but if it was just $5 bills..
 
i found this site to get answers questions from people "who know" as well... and it's so fascinating learning about something i know nothing about, i haven't left...

sounds like your source was possibly reliable...

(yes, i'm a skeptic... )

but one thing i've learned here, is pictures help the arborists give more accurate advice then replying to a narrative...
 
I've always loved trees and respected them so I'm even more curious than if it was something like needlepoint. =) Always makes me sad to see these new McMansion developments scorch the earth to build homes. No shortage of these neighborhood-in-a-field types around here. And yet here I sit, cutting down many trees. I feel torn but I don't have much choice as the lot isn't healthy and moisture is a problem for my horribly over priced CT home. For the sake of my questions I'm going to fetch some pictures and post them so ya'll can see just how crazy wooded the lot is, and what this "Darkness" looks like (I think that first reply was what it is). Lacking a digital camera.. it might take me a few days to get them.
 
Chezenbred said:
It wasn't billy ray.. It was joe bob.

Likewise, I don't want to waste a pro's time without the intent to actually hire one in the near future. If I'm not planning (or able) to have him (or her) do a paid job within at least a year, it would be misleading and dishonest to lure one onto my site for a quote and try to get general advice and such. At least in my opinion it would be.

..

Yes it would be, I wish more people thought like you! Thank you for that!

Joe Bob working for a line clearance co. might not be your best bet for info on your trees. We should be able to give you a very rough ballpark with good pics from here. The price coming from arborists across the US are going to be very different but maybe you could average them out?

Oh yeah, is it possible the trees are Black Walnuts?
 
I read the thread name and expected some sort of philosophic poem. Oh well, take a pict. Try to identify your trees, that will tell us more.
 
tootsie trees.. hmm.. Everything I think I see.. nevermind. =)

No they are solid... except for the one with a little damage to it's base, it had soft black mushy stuff in it. Pics are forthcoming. Take me a couple days to get them developed. Not likely any walnuts, it seems strictly oak and maples.

I wish I had taken pictures before I started removing things, if only to show you all just how forested this lot was. What I did the past weekend made a huge difference, and I'll be busy again this weekend.
 
I can only do five files so I put five files. =) There are more that I'll see if Ic an post in more msgs.

The house has a southern facing road frontage. The apple tree pic is of my sickly apple tree. We really wanted to keep this, but I've now found that there is damage at the base where it lost a 1.5" limb and it's rotted straight into the tree. =(

Cuttrees is a shot of the darkness I mentioned. Drop line is the V oak against my drop lines that I have to bring down, ballparks on what that might cost? East side is just that, east side of the house. Still pretty dense tree growth, I've remove about 15 trees from this area already. "House" is a frontal shot of the house. I intend to bring down the center of the three trees there and leave the other two.
 
Different shots around the yard. The north east corner of the lot contains my shed, which lives in total darkness. As you can see too, the oaks that I do have, are growing at crazy angles, some leaning toward my humble and ugly brown home. (Siding is coming in the spring).

Keep in mind that I have already removed about 25-30 trees. It's opened up a lot already, but I'm not done. If you notice any xmas ribbon on a tree, it's marked for death. After each tree or two, we re-evaluate, but haven't changed our minds on much.
 
Last pic. The west end of the house has a maple that you can see is groing kind of wild. I want to keep it, but it might need some pruning to get it under control. It offers a nice spot of shade in the later afternoon for the backyard that I don't want to completely remove.

Sorry to bore you with all the pics.. people was curious so I did the best I could to show my lot here. The shot called "Drop line" shows the V oak I need to remove at some point.. and the two oaks immediately in front of it I also want to remove.. Ideas what these would cost? For the height of them the other west shots should give an idea. I'd prefer the wood was left on my lot, but I'll take whatever route is cheaper.

And yes.. I haven't yet cut down the ugly Pine corpses. Getting to it soon. =)
 
I appreciate the opinion.. and I do value trees.. More than I think I'm coming off here. All the same, I have some pretty good moisture problems and I want the lot a certain way, retaining all the trees that I can in the process. What you already see in these pictures is that a large portion of the clearing has in fact already been done. Please don't think my intention here is to clear cut the lot and bake it in the sun! I do want to push the grass back a little, grow some more grass and less moss and Ferns.

As for that V tree.. that's literally against my drop line or I'd be keeping that one. The other two near it are not doing well. I may be able to keep them though with pruning and once the V is down. I'm not just running through the lot with a chainsaw and maniacal laughter. =) I cut, step back and re-examine. Also, although I do want to push the yard back perhaps 10 yards or so, I'm not going to thin out that back portion of the lot at all. I like the wild-ness of it.
 
can someone chime in with the value of the trees???

i'm just a homeowner, now in South Carolina, but i used to live in Stamford CT... something i've learned from the learned folks here is what value of the trees add to the house... can someone address that???

also, when you talk about moisture issues, what are you referring to??? in the house? outside the house? the soil remaining boggy??? i think hearing what you mean by that will help the advice here...
 
Moisture

Chezenbred said:
I appreciate the opinion.. and I do value trees.. More than I think I'm coming off here. All the same, I have some pretty good moisture problems and I want the lot a certain way, retaining all the trees that I can in the process. What you already see in these pictures is that a large portion of the clearing has in fact already been done. Please don't think my intention here is to clear cut the lot and bake it in the sun! I do want to push the grass back a little, grow some more grass and less moss and Ferns.
You reaize how much moisture those trees are sucking up every day? Find out where the moisture is coming from. Your drains plugged up or the french drains not working to take the rain water away from the house? Plumbing from the street to the house leaking? Sewerline not working or cracked? Is the house sitting on an artesian well? You live in a valley with an underground stream? Before you blame the trees which are sucking water out of the ground every day check out where the water comes from. Letting sunlight in will burn off the dew, the ferns and moss. If it's just the dew sets heavy and the lawn doesn't dry out till late in the day that's more to do with the trees shading the lawn and air flow. Check out the other possibities first. Each tree is sucking up 10-30 barrels of water a day when they are leafed out.
 
Good questions Geofore. It's surface moisture/Dew. I think in addition to the trees giving shade to this moisture, my clay soil prevents it from doing a very good job of draining downward. The septic works fine, it was inspected pretty well. (no, didn't dig up the leech field, but did what they do for a CHFA loan, which is pretty thorough). The water line from the street doesn't appear a problem. It's just that surface moisture creating the moss and fern growth. The morning Dew becomes the afternoon dew. Plants get that greyish color mildew from staying wet too long. Its already better with what I've taken out so far. The moss is losing it's grip and I've been able to use a grass rake to get some of it up. This could just be due to the drought conditions we've had the last few months though. Too early to tell. My intention is to get things into shape and bring in some top soil for certain areas of the yard. It's a somewhat lumpy yard and if I used a broadleaf weed killer on it I'd only have dirt left. I'm pruning low branches for a little more air when possible, but there are few low branches on these trees.

Trinity.. I am trying to be concious of the value of trees to the home as well. The three trees in front add value (so sayeth the inspector), but they are very close together and although it may not be clear in that photo, the one in the middle has suffered for it. I'm hoping by taking that one out, the other two can fill out a bit and be happier. I also have to deal with the roots of those front trees showing. I hope to get some soil in that front yard, bring it up a few inches, regrade to slope better away from the house, and perhaps put some kind of mulching or landscaping around the front trees to better retain the soil on those roots.

I should have taken "before" pictures, but I had so much work in that yard that it didn't occur to me. The previous owner was a true humanitarian and kept the house great, but did not maintain the yard at all. When we moved in I spent two weeks removing a VERY well constructed handicap ramp on the front, and about 300 cubic feet of mulching around it (and found two very large stumps hidden under it!). I then had to haul at least 6 cords of 8 year old cut wood that had been left in piles to rot. And the leaves. Oh my god the leaves. 6 inches deep in places, I think this was another major reason for the moisture in the yard. It rained only .3 inches in July.. but yet I was raking up wet sloppy mounds of leaves still. I blame this mess for the insane skeeter population as well.

I'll admit I'm just a homeowner.. and I want some trees down so that I can have a bigger yard. I have a 7 year old and a 2 yr old, and they like to play in the yard. I would like to have a well defined, nicely edged lawn with a consistent green grass. Some of the responses here have made me feel like a cattle rancher at a PETA meeting! Trees are coming down! Help me save the ones that I can. Should I save an oak that is leaning a great deal? How much leaning is ok? How about the ones covered in 20 feet of solid lichen and carrying more dead wood than live? Can I do something to save the great oak in front that is against my drop line? (and no, I can't put underground service in, and the connection to the house and the electrical box was just completely redone) On the east side of the house, if I'm removing more trees, pick a few that shouldn't go and tell me why. Tell me why I shouldn't cut down the oaks that are growing slanted in the direction of my house (nearly over my house for that matter)? Should I keep all three frontal trees and keep trimming the copius amount of dead wood? If I have two trees next to each other, a maple and an oak.. which should I consider the better tree to save (given similar health/size etc)?
 
yup, that's a large portion of it in a nutshell. When I don't want that, I'll get me a nice Unabomber shed in the woods somewhere.

On the flip side, I'm also not a "scorch the earth and ???? the trees" type either. That's why I'm here. I want what I want, but I care to do it to some reasonable level as well. If I didn't, You'd see a lot less trees in my yard than you do now. Now if the general opinion is that I'm nothing more than a typical and annoying homeowner, then I'll mosey along, and be aware that is how I'll be percieved by an arborist should I hire one.
 
I haven't seen that anyone has answered questions to be honest (aside from the one response as to what the darkness in my trees is).. only a subtle hostility to the what I'm doing (from some, not all). And while I'm not a pro, I can guarantee you that I'm not the typical homeowner and have taken as much consideration as I can in the decisions I'm making (I'm here aren't I?). I respect nature more than most.. be it trees, animals, or even bugs. I capture spiders and release them outside, I live trap mice and release them in a new location. My kids have been taught the same, and don't even step on ants. I try to kill nothing that I don't have to. In the case of these trees I'm removing.. yes, I'm removing some because I want a nicer, drier yard. Some because I want a safer yard (threats to the house) I'm also thining them out because they are choking each other, and I'd rather have fewer, healthier trees, at least in the portion of my lot I intend to maintain (the back will stay wild).


So I haven't gotten advice really, only thinly veiled hostility.
 
TreeCo said:
Maybe we are assuming you know some of the dangers you are presenting to your trees. Going back to my post where I quoted you three times:

"I would like to have a well defined, nicely edged lawn with a consistent green grass." You need to know that the amount of water and fertilizer required to keep grass green in an area that is largely trees will be detrimental to the trees. Also broad leaf weed killers are bad for trees. Frequent watering is bad for trees but good for grass. High nitrogen lawn fertilizer is bad for trees.

I'm going to test my soil and see what the 4 mains are at before I do anything (nitrogen, ph, potassium, phosphorous). From the appearance though I am expecting to have low or depleted nitrogen.. so I am going to have to feed the yard if I don't do topsoil. I did not now that the nitrogen would be bad for trees.. how do I balance that?


" My intention is to get things into shape and bring in some top soil for certain areas of the yard."You need to know that adding topsoil in areas where there are tree roots can be very bad for trees. It depends on the tree and the type of soil you are going to fill with as to just how much damage is done. Also soil compaction is a big problem using heavy equipment to move soil.

I will not be using any heavy equipment. Aside from the dump truck that brings my soil, I'll be spreading, raking, and compacting by hand (lawn roller). I'll be doing certain areas one at a time as cash allows for the $400 per 16 cubic yards of screen soil around here. This is something I'll have to learn more on before I undertake. I know that I don't want to work the soil up a treeturnk. And I have exposed roots in several places. What steps should I take to help them? I was under the impression that I should get some soil on top of those.

"I hope to get some soil in that front yard, bring it up a few inches, regrade to slope better away from the house,"Same as above. Adding soil over trees roots is an area in which to proceed with extreme caution. Also changing the grade and regrading can do serious damage to tree roots. Again soil compaction issues from equipment usage.

The regrade is more dictated by the fact that the front yard slopes TOWARD the house, and is causing efflouressence in the basement (the portion that is unfinished). I need to get the drainage working away from the house. The trees in the front have exposed roots, all within a few feet of the trunk. There will be a paver walkway from teh front steps to the driveway come spring. I'll be doing the regrade and the walkway at the same time.


That was much better.. constructive and helpful. Anticpation of problems I may face or even cause. I guess my biggest concern from that is what I can do for the exposed roots?
 

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