Think Tank

[Moss Man]

I am fully aware that this isn't much related to firewood, but I respect the minds that come here and we seem to be of similar backgrounds.

My problem is that I am about to change locations to be closer to my immediate family who need my help, specifically my parents. They are in their late seventies and my dad has Alzheimer’s. They have given me some of their land and we need to build a home there to be nearby to help. Long story short, I need a design for a low cost efficient house. I respect the collective thinking that goes on here to solve issues that we run up against and I really don’t belong to another forum that has this. I have had a recent reduction in income from the economy and while I have to make this move, I can barely afford it.

Some quick thoughts to narrow the design;

The house is for my wife and I, we have no children at home with us.
I prefer a 3 bedroom even though we don’t need 3, resale values are much
better on 3 bedroom homes.

We live in Maine.

I’d like it to be on a heated slab with no basement.

Simple is best, our 3 dogs will wreck anything nice in days. It can be a very rustic design, we are not materialistic people. A place where you don’t sweat walking across the floor with a little mud on your boots.

I believe it’s cheaper to build a modest 2 story than a ranch, but I’m not completely sold on the idea yet. I envision a one roofline ranch with a very open floor plan that reduces framing and sheetrock costs.

I am considering propane heating for the slab and domestic water, I love heating with wood but find that it isn’t always the most efficient way to go and chimneys can be expensive and inefficient in themselves. Direct vent propane set up is what I lean towards.

The main bedroom should be on the downstairs floor, my wife has Lyme disease and stairs should be avoided.

The lot that we have is perfect for passive solar on the front of the house; I would at least like to take advantage of that on some level.

The floor plan should be very open and very simple to cut costs.

I would like the bathroom and kitchen to share an interior wall to cut plumbing costs.

Storage at our current home is an issue; we’d like ample closets and storage in the new house.

We’d like to keep the construction as low cost as possible, keeping one roofline, no porches or decks and the most basic low maintenance landscaping as possible.

Plain doors and windows are a must, 2 basic man doors and the most basic of double hung windows will do just fine.

There are a couple cement contractors locally that cut floors to look just like ceramic tile and I would be pleased with that in several rooms. The other rooms could be a low cost laminate floor of some kind.

A metal roof and some type of low maintenance siding wood are just fine.

I would lean towards foam insulation; it is more money upfront but quickly
pays for itself in lesser heating costs.

A garage shouldn’t necessary; there is already a barn there that we can use for storage and a couple vehicles.

Again, I fully realize this might not be the place for this, but sometimes people need help from people they respect.

Thank you.

 

[dingeryote]

Take a look at the newer Modular houses...not the "Manufactured".

Most dealers have demo houses that they need to sell to reduce overhead, and bargains can be had on a solid house with good insulation and windows.
The inlaws went that route and saved a bundle over stick built.

For flooring, ya can't beat natural slate tile. The more beat up it gets, the better it looks, dosn't stain, never needs refinishing. It works as a heat sink/thermal mass in the winter, and stays cool in the summer.
Cost is low if you watch for sales.

We are on sand with two Mutts and can't be happier with the slate.
Instalation is a pain, but zero Maint. is worth it.

You sure ya wanna go with ProPAIN heat? It's been CRAZY expensive the last couple of years. Electric w/ a heat pump is cheaper around here if wood isn't considered.

Building a house is nuts...at least it drove me crazy.
Good luck with it, and always add 1/3 to any estimated cost to leave room for the "oh ####" factor.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote

 

[Nosmo]

If your are wanting a 3-bedroom house and don't plan on using part of the house then you might consider getting plans for an H type design.

Part of the H house design can be closed off when not in use - for example one or two bedrooms do not need the heat or air .

Nosmo

 

[mtfallsmikey]

Take a look at the newer Modular houses...not the "Manufactured".

Most dealers have demo houses that they need to sell to reduce overhead, and bargains can be had on a solid house with good insulation and windows.
The inlaws went that route and saved a bundle over stick built.

For flooring, ya can't beat natural slate tile. The more beat up it gets, the better it looks, dosn't stain, never needs refinishing. It works as a heat sink/thermal mass in the winter, and stays cool in the summer.
Cost is low if you watch for sales.

We are on sand with two Mutts and can't be happier with the slate.
Instalation is a pain, but zero Maint. is worth it.

You sure ya wanna go with ProPAIN heat? It's been CRAZY expensive the last couple of years. Electric w/ a heat pump is cheaper around here if wood isn't considered.

Building a house is nuts...at least it drove me crazy.
Good luck with it, and always add 1/3 to any estimated cost to leave room for the "oh ####" factor.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote

The modular idea is good, but...don't blow off propane so quick. A nice, well-installed in-floor radiant heating system, coupled with a condensing boiler w/outdoor reset is hard to beat comfort-wise, and efficiency-wise, and can be integrated with a wood boiler. But, not cheap to install. Putting money into sealing the envelope and insulation is where the smart money goes tho.

 

[RVALUE]

Properly installed cellulose insulation is just as efficient, (with some other factors such as fire protection and bug deterrent qualities) as foam for less cost. Remember: Sealed is sealed. Once a structure is sealed, it cannot be sealed "more". Proper installation is a must.



Good luck, and that was a good idea to look at the modulars.





(I personally don't have time to answer a lot of arguments on the insulation subject. )

 

[avalancher]

One other option to consider on the floor,how about looking into stained and polished concrete for a finished floor?I attended a workshop some time ago on finishing concrete.I was in the planning stages of our new kitchen and wanted to take a look at concrete counter tops.What the guy produced in the workshop was astounding.After staining with an acid based stain,polishing,and waxing the concrete looked like marble!It was astounding to say the least how concrete can be worked to look like natural stone.

We nixed the idea for counter tops and went with butcher block,but in many ways I wish I had given it a try.It looked great and the contractor that put on the show told me he does a 1500 sqft slab for six hundred bucks.Cant beat that with a stick!

 

[Lurch2]

building

Have you considered a metal building? Less expensive to build. Low maintenance. With 6 inch finished walls very cheap to heat/cool. Fairly popular in this part of the country these days.

 

[Wood Scrounge]

Take a look at the newer Modular houses...not the "Manufactured".

Most dealers have demo houses that they need to sell to reduce overhead, and bargains can be had on a solid house with good insulation and windows.
The inlaws went that route and saved a bundle over stick built.

For flooring, ya can't beat natural slate tile. The more beat up it gets, the better it looks, dosn't stain, never needs refinishing. It works as a heat sink/thermal mass in the winter, and stays cool in the summer.
Cost is low if you watch for sales.

We are on sand with two Mutts and can't be happier with the slate.
Instalation is a pain, but zero Maint. is worth it.

You sure ya wanna go with ProPAIN heat? It's been CRAZY expensive the last couple of years. Electric w/ a heat pump is cheaper around here if wood isn't considered.

Building a house is nuts...at least it drove me crazy.
Good luck with it, and always add 1/3 to any estimated cost to leave room for the "oh ####" factor.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote

:agree2: my Brother in Law bought a new modular home, it was inexpensive and TIGHT like a submarine. I was really impressed with the craftsmanship and setup too.

 

[trax]

If your also concerned about resale value, you may want to reconsider putting in a basement.

 

[leon]

house etc

I am fully aware that this isn't much related to firewood, but I respect the minds that come here and we seem to be of similar backgrounds.

My problem is that I am about to change locations to be closer to my immediate family who need my help, specifically my parents. They are in their late seventies and my dad has Alzheimer’s. They have given me some of their land and we need to build a home there to be nearby to help. Long story short, I need a design for a low cost efficient house. I respect the collective thinking that goes on here to solve issues that we run up against and I really don’t belong to another forum that has this. I have had a recent reduction in income from the economy and while I have to make this move, I can barely afford it.

Some quick thoughts to narrow the design;

The house is for my wife and I, we have no children at home with us.
I prefer a 3 bedroom even though we don’t need 3, resale values are much
better on 3 bedroom homes.

We live in Maine.

I’d like it to be on a heated slab with no basement.

Simple is best, our 3 dogs will wreck anything nice in days. It can be a very rustic design, we are not materialistic people. A place where you don’t sweat walking across the floor with a little mud on your boots.

I believe it’s cheaper to build a modest 2 story than a ranch, but I’m not completely sold on the idea yet. I envision a one roofline ranch with a very open floor plan that reduces framing and sheetrock costs.

I am considering propane heating for the slab and domestic water, I love heating with wood but find that it isn’t always the most efficient way to go and chimneys can be expensive and inefficient in themselves. Direct vent propane set up is what I lean towards.

The main bedroom should be on the downstairs floor, my wife has Lyme disease and stairs should be avoided.

The lot that we have is perfect for passive solar on the front of the house; I would at least like to take advantage of that on some level.

The floor plan should be very open and very simple to cut costs.

I would like the bathroom and kitchen to share an interior wall to cut plumbing costs.

Storage at our current home is an issue; we’d like ample closets and storage in the new house.

We’d like to keep the construction as low cost as possible, keeping one roofline, no porches or decks and the most basic low maintenance landscaping as possible.

Plain doors and windows are a must, 2 basic man doors and the most basic of double hung windows will do just fine.

There are a couple cement contractors locally that cut floors to look just like ceramic tile and I would be pleased with that in several rooms. The other rooms could be a low cost laminate floor of some kind.

A metal roof and some type of low maintenance siding wood are just fine.

I would lean towards foam insulation; it is more money upfront but quickly
pays for itself in lesser heating costs.

A garage shouldn’t necessary; there is already a barn there that we can use for storage and a couple vehicles.

Again, I fully realize this might not be the place for this, but sometimes people need help from people they respect.

Thank you.

A simple metal pole barn with a steep pitch hip roof that faces the prevailing winds will work.


Burying part of it in a hillside(man made or existing) will create and save thermal mass for you by having a block or concrete wall on three sides with the steep roof facing the prevailing winds minimising the building exposure.

Buying a building a 16-18 foot wall height will allow you to pour a slab,
keep all storage and junk in the lower area out of sight and eliminating clutter.

This would also allow you to store dry goods and having a freezer in the lower area as well.

Having the clear span and open space speeds construction for building the living area above the storage area, and fully insulating it using a small steam heating system with long small radiators in the centerline heating the gross area of the building(upper and lower) and a single pipe system loop will be a cakewalk to plumb up as it is clear underneath in every direction and small long radiators could be added for the bath room and or kitchen.


The clear span also allows you to put a very large water storage tank or two under the living area for potable water and the water will not be subject to algae as it is not exposed ot sunlight

Its ironic as a northwest 2100 ribbed rectangular tanks costs less per gallon than the 550 gallon tanks due to the economies scale.



The laundry could be placed on the lower level to simplify plumbing and have a shower/half bath next to the laundry area and a place to wash the three troublemakers or keep them in a confined area for nigh night time or while away for short shopping trips.

The automobiles could be parked at the far end in an attached gararge with a door entering the lower level and also keeping the fumes out of the house too.


The upper floor will gain strrength and rigidity by using 2 by 12's for the floor supports-Im getting there just bear with me;

The floor can be supported by adjustable floor posts or block or concrete piers to support the floor which are small in size and very strong for the purpose using one or more small I beams for the length of the building depending on the width of the building.

In my opinion engineered lumber should be avoided because of the glue and resins used and off gassing and they burn very quickly, not that I want to see that happen to anyone( a new home near syracuse burned tot he ground and killed 2 volumteer firefighters a few years ago as the floor gave way underneath them as it was an engineered floor.

The fire apparently started in the basement which did not help matters any and as they were fighting the fire the floor collapsed and they died from trauma and smoke inhalation.

The town had no regulations with its local codes about engineered lumber or the home locations where engineered lumber was used in construction-the damn fool home owner had a steel fire resistant paint locker in the basement too which added to the fire because of the fusable plugs melting and it was illegal to have the fire resistant cabinet in the basement of the home per local codes.

 

[leon]

house etc. cont.

the clear spans of the lower area will allow easy plumbing for the drains and potable water lines with fast installs as the lines run right under the water appliance with no whodoo voodoo of twists and turns and no cutting into floor joists either.

If it were me, I woul have the P traps for the sinks below the living area just to make it easier to clean them, its hard for me to crawl inside under a sink, and if I dont have P trap under the sink to have deal with when I can be standing up to open it that would be good for me for sure, especially if you want to use grey water for irrigating flowers and NOT vegetables.

The extra fresh water tank and or a rain water catching system gives you an edge in a possible grass fire or to protect the roof and surrounding areas if you lose power by using a generator and electric small water pump.

a fire sprinkler system would be easy to plumb in and it will really save you money on fire insurance too with a large supply of water for fire suppression.

leon

 

[CWME]

If your also concerned about resale value, you may want to reconsider putting in a basement.

:agree2:

Module dealers require a basement of some sort, at least a 4' frost wall.

My wife and I just finished our Modular Ranch build. We were in a tight spot due to our septic failing. We had plans to haul off the trailer and build a Ranch anyway. The septic pushed our timeline up about 5 years. Anyway
Hauling off trailer, demo old foundation, stump removal, new septic, new partial daylight basement, all the fill needed, 30' of loam around house and over entire septic, 4" of 3/4 crushed gravel on the driveway... Oh, 28x50 3BR 1 3/4 bath Oxford Ranch by KBS Homes in Oxford Maine.
All that was just shy of $130,000. Incidentals were

, building permits, impact fees, town required the entire year's taxes up front, water tests, septic design, any upgrades on the house.
We added lights and upgraded the boxes in the bedrooms to ceiling fan boxes. We also added a few windows. It adds up fast but we took the basic package and made the changes that would be imposible or very expensive after the fact.
If you have questions or need some advice send me a PM. If you decide to go the Modular Route Coastline Homes out of Hollis was our dealer. The guys are great to work with. The general Manager's name is Ronnie, great guy. They have an office in So Paris and Ellsworth. If you decide to go that route let them know I sent you, you and I can get a $500 discount from my referal.

 

[Moss Man]

I knew this would bring some great ideas my way and I am not disappointed one bit! Thanx guys. When I get time to actually narrow down which of these ideas fit my plans, I will be sending some pm's to a few of you for some more detailed ideas.

On the in floor heating, I am still reserved on using that as I would heat it with propane and my firewood supply here is basically free. The up front money for an outside boiler is to much for me, I already have a woodstove that has paid for itself ten times over and has many years left in it.

So many ideas, so little time!

 

[CWME]

Forgot to mention that in the $130,000 cost of our house, $2500 was for a two flue masonry chimney.

 

[RAMROD48]

We just went through this....

It will be completed some day...

Rat slab, 4'ish crawl space

down stairs will not have a single wall...

living area and kitchen/dining area...

Upstairs will be a bathroom and 2 bedrooms....

Attic will be converted to an office and a 3rd bedroom someday...

1200sq ft with a 600 sq ft attic area...

I can get some more pics if you wanna see anything...

the 2 structures are connected right now, but the current structure will be removed when the new house is done...

 

[howellhandmade]

With good design and good insulation, you ought to be able to heat with your woodstove. The flue might run a couple grand, but you'd get that back pretty quickly versus propane. I would have never guessed that I could keep my 2-story (not counting basement) 5-bedroom colonial livable all winter with a Napoleon insert, but I can. A house designed with convection/airflow in mind would be even better. Propane for backup is one thing, depending on it is another.

Jack

 

[bluestem]

Don't know if you've ever read or picked up an issue of Mother Earth News before, but its a wonderful resource for ideas and info for exactly what your looking for. Check out there website and search around. Lots of good ideas.

 

[mtfallsmikey]

Don't know if you've ever read or picked up an issue of Mother Earth News before, but its a wonderful resource for ideas and info for exactly what your looking for. Check out there website and search around. Lots of good ideas.

And they are having a fair in Pa. in September, at Seven Springs Resort, not too far from Pittsburgh....

http://www.motherearthnews.com/fair/fair.aspx