To those who like the Intellicarb...

[eyolf]

I get lost on the fixed carb thing, when Stihl distributors seem to have trouble supplying the dealer with good parts service.

I would think Stihl service schools would have covered eliminating air leaks and other problems, adjusting this carb, changing jets, etc. quite well. Further, I would expect Stihl warehouses to keep plenty of carb parts on hand. I would not expect Stihl, inc. to custom tailor each saw made to the locale in which it is sold, but I would expect the dealer to have easy access to what is needed to fine tune each unit before use.

If Stihl is not supporting the dealer in this wise, or if any regional warehouse is unwilling to play along, they are being very foolish, in my opinion. Even 5 saws out of 100 failing can be enough to destroy a reputation.

 

[bwalker]

Eyeolf, The problem for me has never been dealer related or part availability related. The fixed jet is just a pain in the arse to deal with. Who wants to trial and error tune a saw when you can tune it perfectly with a simple screw in 2 minutes?

 

[eyolf]

Agreed, Ben.

Some other posters to this thread have put forth the idea that maybe a fixed jet carb that runs, "<i>sorta good</i>", is better than an adjustable one in the hands of a guy that doesn't know what he's doing.

I can follow that if Stihl has done their homework, making certain that the dealer has all he needs to make those expensive saws work from day one. It sounds as if at least some dealers aren't able to make good on that expectation. You might expect a consumer unit at Walmart to need a little help. Not a premium marque.

 

[glens]

<b>Fish</b>:&nbsp; There is now a thumping tangent because of incomplete moderator prunage.&nbsp; I'd called someone to task for referring to me by a juvenile, derogatory alteration of my name, which instance I see also survived the scalpel.&nbsp; Oh, well.

<b>Russ</b>:&nbsp; As Ben has stated, there's the possibility it was correct for Dennis at higher altitude and/or with non-oxygenated fuel.&nbsp; If it was right on the edge and you introduced a greater proportion of oxygen for whatever reason (maybe more oil in the mix?) it could entirely explain your dilemma.&nbsp; I'm not discounting that possibility.

Don't you think it's at least possible there could be a bit of phlegm or something in the carburetor?&nbsp; Or maybe a metering valve lever set a bit too high or it's spring a bit too strong?&nbsp; I wouldn't want to rule them out until I'd checked.

I have never defended the fixed jet carburetors and I think they are not a good idea when they are tuned to be right on the verge of leanness at best, as they usually are.&nbsp; At the same time, though, I can't help but recall having only throttle stop and idle mixture adjustments on automobile engines before the widespread advent of electronic fuel injection.&nbsp; It seems to me that I've had to manually change jets on car and motorcycle engines to get things into range, as opposed to the luxury of an adjustment screw.&nbsp; I admit to preferring the convenience of the screw, but it's not a necessity, and if Stihl is predominantly going that route, I can't help but think that Husky will soon follow.&nbsp; The range-limited screws are probably the best compromise, but even they can be a hassle to get around initially.&nbsp; And the shop guy where I trade tells me that if he sees that a limiter has been dicked-with, he pulls it, sets the carb to spec. and reinstalls a new limiter because he doesn't want to get fined.

I think saying I routinely "discount" the experience and knowledge of others on this board is maybe going a bit far.&nbsp; I acknowledge that I sometimes question it, but isn't that what this is all about; discovering the best possible answer to a question?&nbsp; Maybe making a distinction between discounting and questioning is too picky on my part, but I understand "discount" to mean "exclude from consideration" while "question" implies careful consideration.

Just because 10,000 Frenchmen believe something doesn't mean it's so.&nbsp; If I were looking for anyone to concede anything to me in this case it would be that the problem, such as it is, is solely with "fixed-jet" carburetors, and the fact that one might have the compensator cover is inconsequential.&nbsp; My wanting to make that distinction in no way detracts from the complaints being made, I just want them to be directed properly.&nbsp; There may be visitors here who "learn" that "all Intellicarbs have fixed jets, so they suck", thus leaving here with bad information.

Glen

 

[bwalker]

he pulls it, sets the carb to spec. and reinstalls a new limiter because he doesn't want to get fined.

I think he is full of ****. If my dealer did that I would have a new dealer by the end of the day.

 

[Crofter]

Merits of Fixed Jet Carbs

The quote below is a clip of Glens complete post.

Originally posted by glens
[; I have never defended the fixed jet carburetors and I think they are not a good idea when they are tuned to be right on the verge of leanness at best, as they usually are.&nbsp; At the same time, though, I can't help but recall having only throttle stop and idle mixture adjustments on automobile engines before the widespread advent of electronic fuel injection
Glen [/B]

The fixed high speed jets were not without their problems on cars either Glen. Jets had to be changed, drilled, metering rods filed, float levels dinked with. Also a air cooled 2 stroke is much more dependant on mixture for its lliving than a water cooled 4 stroke. Any fixed high speed setting is a compromise at best because of possible fuel variations and certainly because of temperature variations.
Unfortunately the compensating carburetor issue has gotten tangentally connected (to borrow a phrase). I think that has benefits.
Any POSSIBLE benefits of fixed hs jets would make a small pile compared to all the CERTAIN drawbacks. In my humble opinion fixed jets has been done TO us not FOR us!

Frank

 

[Auto tech]

Treeclimber, what is the part number of the older style intellicarb with the high speed screw?? I would prefer to turn a screw than change jets. I have an 026 pro, runs ok just needs a little tweek on the high speed.
On the fixed jet topic, I am no "pro" on two cycle engines, but I have spent many years servicing four cycle automotive engines. The only reason automotive carbs were non-adjustable and have tamper resistant screws, covers, plugs and rivets is so no one will change the settings and alter the emissions output out the tailpipe. Works fine till vehicle gets some age and wear, then you (consumer) are supposed to have some one remove all the tamper resistant stuff adjust it back to specs. and then reinstall all the tamper resistant stuff again. This is all thanks to the EPA and all tree huggers everywhere(Federal clean air act), not the vehicle manufacturer. I would assume this also applies to all small engines 2 or 4 stroke regardless of manufacturer. Last domestic vehicle with a carb. was in the late 80's (87 or 88). With fuel injection the air fuel ratio is fully adjustable through the entire operating range via the wonderful world of electronics. Too bad someone can't shrink it all down (sensors, circuit boards, pumps, etc.) and put it on a chainsaw.

 

[alamo-kid]

adjustable 026 carb

according to the stihl carburetor manual and the stihl 026 parts book the fully adjustable carb should be the walbro WT-426 or stihl pn# 1121 120 0560. My 026 has this carb and it is adjustable. again this is what mine has , and the wat I read the parts book, but with all the opinions out there on the topic I would confirm with others before ordering


jeff

 

[glens]

Have a look at http://wem.walbro.com/walbro/category.asp?GroupName=Chain+Saw&FamilyName=STIHL

It appears as though all four of the models listed (WT-394-318, WT-581, WT-395, WT-22C) for the 026 are using an externally adjustable power needle and an idle needle that is optionally either externally adjustable or plugged-over.&nbsp; If that's the case, it could be relatively trivial to make a capped unit externally adjustable again.

The web site is chock full of implementation (technical) errors, so the information is marginally suspect in my opinion, but they also have a listing for the MS270 (HD-27) which clearly shows two adjustable jets and no capping option.

<b>Ben</b>:&nbsp; I haven't checked the veracity of the mechanic's statement, but he'd said something to the effect that although "they" (EPA?) are not actively pursuing the situation at this time, that on the books it's a $5,000 fine for the mechanic and $15,000 for the store to knowingly allow a compromised EPA carb back into use.&nbsp; He didn't have any opinion on modified mufflers, and I'd assume he'd adjust the carb to operate "properly" in any event.

Glen

 

[stihltech]

hack

Don't you ever tell me I hacked a carb. I went to great lengths to find the correct number drills that work for the correct jet. I see many through my shop in a year and have had to correct jets in less than ten. But I took the time to find out what makes the saw run correctly.
I repair saws CORRECTLY.

 

[bwalker]

Stihl tech, I never said you where a hack. I did say something to the effect that it stinks hack tactics have to be used to get a saw to run right. Drilling a carb is a hack tactic IMO.

 

[treeclimber165]

How do you define 'CORRECTLY'? Does that mean you get it to run good enough to give back to the homeowner? Or that it runs 'to specs' on the bench in your shop? How will that 'CORRECTLY' adjusted carb work against an older saw properly dialed in when it's time to lay into the wood?

Pretty hard to dial in a carb when you need to disassemble it to adjust it. You can get it close but not perfect. How do you tweak that last 16" turn on the high speed jet? Or do you just say "it's good enough" and call it 'fixed'?

 

[Fish]

I use permatex to fine tune them here. If I need to go richer,
I smear permatex over the air filter, leaner I paste over the
fuel filter. I then douse it all with ether to render the
"intellicarb" stupid. I also have a problem with the term "hack"
and find it offensive, I personally like to be called "Gomer".

Seriously,
I applaud Stihltech's efforts to help out the customers and share
his experiences on this forum, he seems to be a good guy with a
lot of knowledge, he probably spends 10 times longer than I
would "fine tuning" a saw. High performance around here
is merely a saw that will keep idling without constantly goosing
it.

 

[stihltech]

jets

Guess you beeter talk to all those guys with Holleys and Quadrajets that hacked their carbs by drilling the jets.
Some people throw parts at equipment to repair it. I have always tried to find the problem and repair it the best way. I find the drill gets me on the mark better than the next jet size. I call it fine tuning. Yes, I spend extra time to find real fixes to saw problems. It is the way I was taught. AND I ain't quitting now.
New technology is welcomed here, just another challenge.

 

[jokers]

I`ll second what Dan said, we don`t want to see Stihltech go away, but I think he`s tougher than that. Russ

 

[Auto tech]

Drilling out a jet to next size or fine tuned to a size in between with the proper set of drill bits is FAR from considered as "hack work" more like "perfectionist work" What is the difference if a jet is enlarged to .055 with a bit or a factory jet with a .055 hole already in it? What if you need something in between? Those who tune a rochester to a "hopped up" 350 drill holes, pretty tough to order set of jets, most go the Holley or Edelbrock route because you can get a drawer full of jets and rods to fine tune them to most any application, alot less work than drilling and they are all marked with the size on them (the ones you don't need lay in the drawer and collect dust, all part of the thrill of adventure). But you still have to dissasemble that bugger many times to get the right combination, and then it probably will not pass emissions inspections if you are fortunate to live in one of those areas.
So all that said, if you don't like to mess with all that messing around leave it stock!! (Fact is quite a few people like all that messing around, they figure they got one up on the engineers)granted there are a FEW stock that need some adjustment, if its a saw, sounds to me like guys like Stihl Tech could fix it for you. And as long as there are enviromentalists (tree huggers) amongst the powers that be, get used to lots more intrusive means of "controlling pollution".

 

[glens]

Holley says to jump two jet sizes when making a change since there's not that much difference between single steps, and that if you have to go 8 to 10 sizes away you've either got a fuel delivery problem or the carburetor is wrong for the application.

Stihltech, I was wondering, do you somehow indicate for posterity that the jet is now not what it appears to be?&nbsp; That would be the <i>only</i> drawback that I can see to reaming them.

 

[bwalker]

Stihltech, Like I said before I didnt mean to infere that you where a hack. Quite to the contrary, I have found some of your comments on this board to be extremely knowledgable. I cant say that about many dealers. The problem I have with you reaming the fixed jet out is the fact that it will only get the saw runing right for one day. To keep your saw running at peak performance I readjust everyday. It only takes a few seconds and it garauntees a saw running at peak levels like it was intended to. To assume because you tuned a saw to run perfect in your shop that it will run perfect year round would be making ahuge mistake. It simply cant. This is what has ticked everyone off about this fixed jet.

Auto Tech, For the umpteenth time. THIS IS A PROBLEM ON
STOCK SAWS.

 

[WRW]

Ben,
I don't consider 32:1 mix to be stock. It seemed (subjectively) that going from 40:1 to 50:1 improved the performance on my 45cc saw after 4-5 tanks of fuel had been run through it.

 

[bwalker]

The specific gravity change between 32:1 and 50:1 is around 1%. The SG of gas varies more than this. So to say that a 32:1 ratio is having a negative impact on carb tuning is pretty laughable. When you say your saw ran worse with 40:1 what do you mean? What oil?
It was most likely a adjustment issue. Almost every high performance two cycle made reccomends a 32:1 or richer ratio. Had the epa not stucks its nose into our saws we would still be using 32:1 as well. I also wouldnt use a oem oil for a richer oil mix. The stuff is low quality and is loaded up with bright stock in order to run a 50:1 ratio and have addequate scuff resistance. Bright stock combust about as well as peanut butter so its no stretch to imagine the deposits it creats.