Topping ordinances?
- Thread starter rebelman
- Start date
Help Support Arborist Forum:
rebelman
ArboristSite Operative
I'm going to approach city councils about passing some resolutions, I figure all tree city USA's (several thousand-there is a list I'll be checking). Topping is accepted practice here in Arkansas, I'm trying to get the word out--it's bad! If I can tell these Mayor's and councilmen that so many thousand cities have passed laws maybe they'll realize I'm not just a radical zealot. ANSI standard could replace redneck political spin.
begleytree
H. sapiens moderatus
The mere fact that a council is able to pass a law forbidding topping is worthless, unless it is enforced.
Portsmouth, Ohio is a tree city usa with no-top ordinances on the books, yet every tree in town is topped, by their main tree contractor no less.
If the law you want passed has no teeth, you're better off spending your time sharpening saws, imo
-Ralph
Portsmouth, Ohio is a tree city usa with no-top ordinances on the books, yet every tree in town is topped, by their main tree contractor no less.
If the law you want passed has no teeth, you're better off spending your time sharpening saws, imo
-Ralph
pbtree
Addicted to ArboristSite
begleytree said:
Well said...
Bodean
ArboristSite Member
Lot's and Lot's of cities and counties here in Kalifornia have no topping and the penalty is usually a fine of some amount.
http://danr.ucop.edu/ihrmp/county/
This goes through plenty of ordinances.
Mitigation is a biggie also.
D
http://danr.ucop.edu/ihrmp/county/
This goes through plenty of ordinances.
Mitigation is a biggie also.
D
treeman45246
ArboristSite Operative
Tree cities are a good place to start, but they often have enough trouble enforcing the ordinance on their own trees, much less those on private property. I feel what you do on your own property ought to be your own business, unless it affects the public safety. So a topped silver maple two feet off the sidewalk? I have a problem with that. Telling someone that the city says they can't top that same tree in their backyard seems wrong to me. Sure, they topped a tree and ruined it, but it is their property, their eyesore and their maintenance problem.
I work with several small communities aside from my regular line of work, and the plain fact is that most of them are clueless about tree care. They know what their uncle/grandpa/cousin told them 25 years ago and they've done it that way ever since. Try a little volunteerism - ask to sit in on a tree board meeting - every tree city is required to have one. A few hours worth of talking in the right ears goes a long way towards the future health of your cities' trees. Putting them on the right track costs you little, and while you're not changing the whole world you're improving your part, or at the least buying it time.
I work with several small communities aside from my regular line of work, and the plain fact is that most of them are clueless about tree care. They know what their uncle/grandpa/cousin told them 25 years ago and they've done it that way ever since. Try a little volunteerism - ask to sit in on a tree board meeting - every tree city is required to have one. A few hours worth of talking in the right ears goes a long way towards the future health of your cities' trees. Putting them on the right track costs you little, and while you're not changing the whole world you're improving your part, or at the least buying it time.
clearance
Addicted to ArboristSite
More laws, more lawyers....get lost. What about trees around powerlines for starters? I know topping trees isn't good, but niether is drinking too much, smoking and a host of other things that are a persons choice, if the tree is thiers, its up to them. State nanny, daycare for people, live proud live free. Besides, years from now when the topped tree looks too awfull to keep or a new top fails and hits the house, someones tree service will get the call to deal with it.
skwerl
Will Climb for food
Something I've never understood. you can have hundreds of well maintained, healthy and properly pruned trees in a neighborhood and nobody notices. Yet if one idiot has his trees topped, half of his neighbors immediately pick up the phone and start calling for prices on getting their trees topped just like their idiot neighbor's. What is it about seeing a topped tree that makes otherwise normal people want to have their trees topped?
Redbull
ArboristSite Guru
The difference between drinking/smoking and topping trees is that people KNOW those things aren't good for you, whereas most people have not been educated on the downfalls of topping.
Now, to play devils advocate, I agree that less govt. is generally better and that you are right. The trees are private property and customers should be able to do with them what they please.
But, arborists should not be able to perform the work. Homeowners who don't know/don't care will always seek out "Joe Schmo and the pickup truck show" to do their topping and sub-standard work.
Now, to play devils advocate, I agree that less govt. is generally better and that you are right. The trees are private property and customers should be able to do with them what they please.
But, arborists should not be able to perform the work. Homeowners who don't know/don't care will always seek out "Joe Schmo and the pickup truck show" to do their topping and sub-standard work.
clearance
Addicted to ArboristSite
Redbull- I worked for a tree service co. with six boom trucks, two chip trucks, stumpgrinders, twenty+ employees and we topped more trees than I can remember and climbed everthing we couldnt reach with spurs. My boss, the estimator and a couple of the guys are I.S.A. certified (joke that it is) So don't think it is just the guys with a pickup. When I am hacking around on the side in my pickup I advise spiral pruning, not topping, especially on conifers, but the customer gets what they want in the end. I can hear it now " It takes a village to raise a tree" Hillary Clinton
RedlineIt
ArboristSite Guru
Not intending to speak for clearance, but spiral pruning is a term used on the west coast for thinning the top of tall urban conifers.
The intent is to reduce the wind sail effect on the tree by removing up to 20% of the crown, by thinning one whorl of branches at a time. If this whorl has five branches, remove one, on the NE side. Next whorl has six branches, remove one on the N side, next whorl has maybe eight branches, remove 2 facing S and SW. Next whorl take the E facing branch and so on.
If the tree presents problem branches, you note them on your way up to include them in your spiral plan on the way down.
And you have to go to the very top to start or you may as well not begin. The idea is to get a tree the wind can blow through rather than blow about.
Any questions?
begleytree
H. sapiens moderatus
Unheard of in these parts.
Does it do anything other than look funny?
-Ralph
Does it do anything other than look funny?
-Ralph
RedlineIt
ArboristSite Guru
It is preferable to topping. Tall, lone urban conifers need this type of help to survive the fears of the property owner.
Back on topic, I live in a jurisdiction with considerable restrictions regarding specific species. No cuts at all over 10 cm (that's about 4 inches for the 'mericans) on Gary Oaks or Arbutus without permit. No removals over 30 cm DBH without permit in another jurisdiction.
This is all good.
Then there is "Brentwood". You cannot touch a tree that was there before the devopment went in. Then there are the trees you planted yourself.
If such a tree begins to interfere with the view of your neighbour, he can order you to top it.
Order you.
Performing and reviewing this work is the most distasteful thing I have ever done.
But there it is. Law sometimes good, sometimes stupid.
RedlineIt
Back on topic, I live in a jurisdiction with considerable restrictions regarding specific species. No cuts at all over 10 cm (that's about 4 inches for the 'mericans) on Gary Oaks or Arbutus without permit. No removals over 30 cm DBH without permit in another jurisdiction.
This is all good.
Then there is "Brentwood". You cannot touch a tree that was there before the devopment went in. Then there are the trees you planted yourself.
If such a tree begins to interfere with the view of your neighbour, he can order you to top it.
Order you.
Performing and reviewing this work is the most distasteful thing I have ever done.
But there it is. Law sometimes good, sometimes stupid.
RedlineIt
Education is the key here. Spend the time with your customers and educate them one by one. It will not happen overnight and in some cases, you will never see topping go away. Arborists have to stick together and work to get the hacks out of the way, by educating all their clients. Don't be afraid to stop and tell someone that they just paid to have their trees destroyed. Hand them a brochure on why topping is bad. Why do we not see brochures on why topping is good? Think about it. Laws are useless.
