Tree fall problem

[Joe Kuhn]

Storm went through yesterday and knocked a limb off my neighbors tree. I cut it up this morning with my Mac 10-10 and put it by the curb for the township to pick up. Then I offered to take the rest of the tree down so as to learn something about dropping trees. I've always just worked on getting saws running and used them to cut limbs off trees I can reach from the ground. This one is different.

Here's my video of the tree, best viewed in full screen mode:



Notice the heavy branch extending towards the neighbors house. The tips of it go into their tree by a foot or two. Around the other side of the tree you can see that branch again on the bottom and the other smaller branch on top that points directly towards the brown fence. That about sums it up except for the two holes in the trunk just above the flowers that are about to take a beating.

My goal is to drop it between the brown fence and the neighbors tree by having it fall directly towards their front steps. It's way too short to reach their steps. If it falls into their tree, I suspect minimal damage. If it falls into the brown fence, it'll be time for some fence repairs. We are on great terms with these neighbors and I'll discuss this risk ahead of time. I offer this picture as well which shows everything but the small branch on top that points to the brown fence.



After watching some of this video:



I think I'll do a flat cut between those two holes in the main trunk, 1/2 of the way into the tree. This will be on the side I want it to fall - towards the neighbors front steps. Then I'll cut a notch up to my flat cut from below, take that piece of wood out, and finish the fall from the opposite side. I'll cut over to about an inch or two of my first cut, at the same level, use a wedge and watch it go. I do not like the two holes from previous limb breaks. I'll cut right between them and deal with the tall stump later.

Experts - what are your thoughts?

Thanks in advance,
Joe

 

[uniballer]

I always recommend that the first few trees someone fells should be as low risk as possible (i.e. minimal risks to life, limb, and property).

I can't tell, how far up is that heavy branch you are concerned about? If feasible, a pole saw might take that off and result in a much easier and/or safer removal. Also, the tree doesn't look very tall, so a pole saw might be able to reduce it to a bare trunk that can be easily and safely felled.

Also hard to tell from your video, what direction is the tree actually leaning?

 

[Joe Kuhn]

I always recommend that the first few trees someone fells should be as low risk as possible (i.e. minimal risks to life, limb, and property).

I can't tell, how far up is that heavy branch you are concerned about? If feasible, a pole saw might take that off and result in a much easier and/or safer removal. Also, the tree doesn't look very tall, so a pole saw might be able to reduce it to a bare trunk that can be easily and safely felled.

Also hard to tell from your video, what direction is the tree actually leaning?

Thanks so much for your reply. The heavy branch is 11 feet off the ground. The smaller one is 3 feet above that. The tree is leaning slightly to the left, over the homeowner's driveway which is exactly opposite where the heavy branch is going - off to the right. See that in the beginning of my video.

 

[uniballer]

At 11 feet up, I would be getting out the gas pole saw (or electric if you have one) and cutting that problem branch into smaller pieces for disposal. Maybe the other one, too.

I could tell that the tree was leaning at least partly to the left, but didn't see another view 90 degrees off to be sure that was the true direction. I would not recommend that you try to cut a tree against the natural lean for your first felling experience. Maybe 90 degrees from the lean at most if you have a pull line in the tree and somebody to handle it.

Could the tree hit the fence if it falls in the wrong direction?

 

[Joe Kuhn]

Yes, it sure could hit the fence if it fell that way. But the size and direction of the big branch leads me to believe that won't happen. Assuming I get the cutting correct and it hinges the way I want it to go.

Ok, let's play out your suggestions:

I get a gas pole saw, which I've been wanting to get anyway, and cut all the limbs off the trunk. Then, since the trunk is leaning towards the driveway, I drop the trunk that direction. Note the driveway is due for repairs later this summer anyway.

You know, with the limbs off it, I prefer it fall towards the neighbors steps anyway. That's between the brown fence and their tree, away from the homeowner's driveway. Maybe I can drop it away from the driveway, but towards the street which is the direction I shot the video from, at the start.

 

[uniballer]

Just keep in mind that if you mess up the tree will probably fall in the direction it is leaning. If that is not acceptable then you must take steps to control the direction it falls, and that usually means doing more than just putting the notch on the correct side and hoping it falls that way. Wedges and pull lines can help a lot, but you need to figure it out before you start cutting, and that is not easy for somebody with limited experience.

Be safe. Good luck.

 

[gmctyphoon]

I know this is not what you want to hear, but...

You need to stay away from this tree. There’s a lot of reasons why. The big one I see is the fact of the holes. This tree will not act normal when you hinge it. It’s hallow inside. And then there’s the huge limbs adding weight in a lot of weird places.

Tube videos are great, but cannot make you capable of safely taking that particular tree down.

 

[Joe Kuhn]

I went over there with my saw and cut a few more dead limbs I could reach on a tree along the road. I worked with the neighbor lady's son who was probably 35 years old and we discussed renting a pole saw tomorrow to get everything cut in time for pickup by the township on Thursday. It all seemed good.

Then the other neighbor came out and offered an extension ladder. I said no, but the neighbor lady's son said he used to side two story houses and he would do the cutting from the ladder. I stayed out of the way of the saw and the branches. They were dropping pretty fast and they were way bigger than I expected based on the thump when they hit the ground. He dropped my saw once and bent the end of the bar which I straightened with a dam hammer so he could finish cutting all the branches. I could have said no when the ladder was offered and taken my saw home. I think that's what I'll do next time.

I cut the bottom of just the trunk while the other two pulled on a rope to get it to fall straight towards the street. I cut well below the bottom hole. The trunk was solid there, but I had to cut low, about 6 inches above the ground and then come down on an angle to create a notch about a third of the way across the diameter. Then I went around the back side and cut over to meet the bottom of the notch and hinge it while the others pulled the rope. It finally fell and did so in exactly the direction intended. It took way more cutting than I thought it would. I really needed a longer saw, but I went back and forth from one side to the other until it dropped. Will try to get a picture of that final cut tomorrow.

Nobody got hurt. It'll cost me a new bar & chain as the chain doesn't move as readily as it should. There's some finish work to do tomorrow before the township comes the next day. I apologize for not taking you 'alls advice as I wasn't home while you were posting.

There's another neighbor down the street with a tree in her back yard that fell during the storm and wrecked her 6 foot tall plastic fence. This one I can handle easily as it's already on the ground. This reminds me of that famous line from the movie, "Apocalypse Now" - don't get out of the boat.

 

[Joe Kuhn]

I know this is not what you want to hear, but...

You need to stay away from this tree. There’s a lot of reasons why. The big one I see is the fact of the holes. This tree will not act normal when you hinge it. It’s hallow inside. And then there’s the huge limbs adding weight in a lot of weird places.

Tube videos are great, but cannot make you capable of safely taking that particular tree down.

I respect your last sentence there a lot. However, if I might ask: how would you have handled this tree? I'm here to learn what I can about this.

 

[Joe Kuhn]

Just keep in mind that if you mess up the tree will probably fall in the direction it is leaning. If that is not acceptable then you must take steps to control the direction it falls, and that usually means doing more than just putting the notch on the correct side and hoping it falls that way. Wedges and pull lines can help a lot, but you need to figure it out before you start cutting, and that is not easy for somebody with limited experience.

Be safe. Good luck.

We ended up using a line that I have from my son's rock climbing days. It worked really well. We had two guys pulling on the rope tied to the trunk at the top after all and I mean all the branches were dropped. The trunk fell exactly in the direction they were pulling. Thanks for your note.

 

[treeseer]

Learn how to prune so you can fix problems without killing assets.

 

[gmctyphoon]

I respect your last sentence there a lot. However, if I might ask: how would you have handled this tree? I'm here to learn what I can about this.

I cut a decent amount of trees down and have a good arsenal of equipment to do so ( rope, massdam, wedges, ect) But I’m a chainsaw guy before a tree guy.

I would have called a professional company to put that tree on the ground. Then I would have my way with it, lol. Around here that would have been a couple hundred to put on the ground. In my opinion the risk associated with all that tree had to offer wasn’t worth the risk versus $200.

But it sounds like you guys did it successfully, so kudos!

My favorite quote passed around a lot on this site is, “Is what I’m about to do safe.”

 

[Joe Kuhn]

Learn how to prune so you can fix problems without killing assets.

Please be more specific. I'm interested in what you've got to say. Thanks.

 

[CacaoBoy]

Then the other neighbor came out and offered an extension ladder. I said no, but the neighbor lady's son said he used to side two story houses and he would do the cutting from the ladder.

So many things can go wrong when cutting from a ladder. I've seen videos with worse, but this was the first I came across today.

 

[Joe Kuhn]

So many things can go wrong when cutting from a ladder. I've seen videos with worse, but this was the first I came across today.

Reminds me of one limb that came back around and almost hit the ladder the young man was standing on yesterday. He never even saw it. I said something to the guy who brought the ladder over and he commented that it was this guy's day to use the ladder (successfully).

After watching your video, YouTube pulls up several related videos. There's no shortage, that's for sure. I'll bring this up the next time I see the neighbor. He doesn't know how lucky he was. The guy who owns the ladder saw it. He knows, now.

These are videos about doing it the wrong way. How about some videos showing limb removals done the right way? They need to be paired for best effect. Wrong Way / Right Way.

 

[Joe Kuhn]

Here's my first cut to drop a tree (with no branches). I can see some hinge effect on the far side, which is good as that pulled the tree away from the driveway. What do you guys think? I thought my cuts were more level that this, but the picture shows what really happened.



And here's the felled log. The two guys pulling on the rope where positioned on the sidewalk at the red Xs. Look how that one branch took some with it off the bottom towards the main trunk. That makes the branch swing back towards the trunk as just seen in the video posted by @CacaoBoy. I'm learning a lot from this.



The limbs with leaves left to be cut up is more than I expected. It goes way back towards the brown fence, which you can't even see here. I've got more work to do to get it all out to the curb.

 

[gmctyphoon]

I some how skipped over the reply about using the ladder to cut the limbs down.

Here’s another quote, “The only difference between a hero and an idiot is success.”

Yesterday you all were successful..

 

[Joe Kuhn]

It's all cleaned up:



And on the curb for the Township pickup tomorrow:



The neighbor who graced us (or not) with the extension ladder picked up a 14" battery driven saw and cut the stump nice and low and flat:



I was glad he joined us. He did a lot with the smaller branches. Here's the whole crew:



Next question: Where'd I leave that sharpener?

 

[Woodanhor]

Its a good day when you and your crew come home at the end of the day

Looks like some firewood too

 

[Joe Kuhn]

And in 45 minutes it was all gone including the trunk pieces. Impressive machine the Township has there. Glad I cut the stump pieces short. Even at that, they slowed their machine down a lot at times. And next time we'll spread out the pile wider so it's easier to pull from.



We also had another neighbor stop by last night to pick up some of the short stump pieces for the kids in her day care program to sit on outside when having snacks. Nice surprise.

Thanks to all here who responded.

Looking forward to the next one.