Tree I.D. help please

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skinnykid02 said:
I took a picture of the leaf over the summer when I first cut another tree like it.
Click to expand...

Well that explains why it looked it such good condition. I was thinking it was really late in the year for a leaf to hold that kind of color and texture.

Check out the link I just posted. It is from Michael Dirr's site. The leaf in his photo looks virtually exactly like yours.

Sylvia
 
Sylvia, with great respect, I see some differnces in the leaves where the blade meets the stem, the teeth, and the tip. Maybe this is normal variation? I still think it looks like some kind of hawthorne, but again, the bark doesn't match.

attachment.php
 
I'm sticking with the original call by Sylvia.

The two views are different: one is from the top of the leaf, and the other is from the bottom. The veining looks very similar to me, however. The difference in the serrations/teeth does not look significant to me. So far, no one has posted any taxonomic info here except one leaf and some bark.

I think we'll get no further until more evidence is offered.
 
Buzz, PLEASE post instructions on how you posted both pics!!! AWESOME! I believe it is relevant to this thread as it is so helpful in comparison and diagnoses. (If too involved, please pm me.)

However, I'm going to agree with PDQDL on that we need more info for an absolute positive ID.

I can't wrap my brain around a hawthorne with that size trunk and the bark. Also crataegus sp is diffuse to semi-ring porous and the wood looks pretty strongly ring porous to me. Which holds to the ash tendency. The OP is confident the leaf matched the tree he took down so we are going with that.

I am definitely not the best identification expert so I never mind being wrong. Well, I may mind being wrong but I never take offense. :)

One thing I learned in the dendrology class I just took was that leaves can vary tremendously! I took three leaves from a sugar maple, standing right there at the same tree, if I laid them out and asked for an id you would have said "saccharum", "platanoides", and "rubrum". No kidding.

The drawing of the base of the Hessei in Dirr's book shows more acute. The picture from his website seems to be almost truncate. Which may be, as PDQDL pointed out, camera angle.

I wonder if the op has more like trees where he can get entire pictures? A close up of the twig would be very helpful. A closeup of the vascular bundles from the leaf scale scar would be greatly appreciated. (Ok, just kidding...)

Sylvia
 
yes I have more trees like the one pictured. One next my drive way and some out back. They are mostly very tall and the branches are at the top, no branches partly up the tree.

What do you want pics of? Mind you, we are getting heavy wind, rain and possibly snow! So I might not be able to get pics today.
 
I wouldn't want you to put yourself in harms way; however, keep an eye out for a live branch that may fall. If so, grab this and take a picture showing the terminal end. This will be the end of the branch that should have bud formation on it. It will have to be long enough for us to see the configuration of the buds on the twig, and yet close up and clear.

If you can also take a picture of the entire tree, that would be great also.

I must say, you are a very good sport! :)

Sylvia
 
One thing I learned in the dendrology class I just took was that leaves can vary tremendously! I took three leaves from a sugar maple, standing right there at the same tree, if I laid them out and asked for an id you would have said "saccharum", "platanoides", and "rubrum". No kidding.
Click to expand...

i agree fully. i would certainly like to see if the leaf is pinnately compound and alternate.

thanks for putting up with us crazy tree id-ers.
 
Buzz, PLEASE post instructions on how you posted both pics!!! AWESOME! I believe it is relevant to this thread as it is so helpful in comparison and diagnoses. (If too involved, please pm me.)
Click to expand...

The easy way is with Microsoft Picture it. You open both photos and just drag one onto the other and adjust the size and position by dragging the handles on the second photo. Since I now have Corel Paint Shop Pro, I had to select the area I wanted to use, copy it, then paste as a new selection into the first photo.

I can't wrap my brain around a hawthorne with that size trunk and the bark. Also crataegus sp is diffuse to semi-ring porous and the wood looks pretty strongly ring porous to me. Which holds to the ash tendency. The OP is confident the leaf matched the tree he took down so we are going with that.
Click to expand...

I totally agree. Never seen a hawthorne that big and wondered if it was possible.

One thing I learned in the dendrology class I just took was that leaves can vary tremendously! I took three leaves from a sugar maple, standing right there at the same tree, if I laid them out and asked for an id you would have said "saccharum", "platanoides", and "rubrum". No kidding.
Click to expand...

Absolutely agree.

A closeup of the vascular bundles from the leaf scale scar would be greatly appreciated. (Ok, just kidding...)
Click to expand...

I'll see how much I can zoom in on the photo. LOL

I really appreciate the details and insight in your posts. You are far closer to an expert than I.
 
Sylvia, you work too hard at this. You should go for the easy answers first, then dig in for the tough details.

I'm still waiting to find out if it has opposite branching or not. I know, I know; you can tell from the terminal buds...

skinnykid02: throw an old boot up into the tree until you knock off some intact twigs with a few terminal ends. Put on the carpet and take some pictures.
 
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pdqdl said:
Sylvia, you work too hard at this. You should go for the easy answers first, then dig in for the tough details.

I'm still waiting to find out if it has opposite branching or not. I know, I know; you can tell from the terminal buds...

skinnykid02: throw an old boot up into the tree until you knock off some intact twigs with a few terminal ends. Put on the carpet and take some pictures.
Click to expand...

I know, I begin to sound a bit obsessive, don't I? :) I'm hoping he can get a twig so we can see the configuration.

Sylvia
 
pdqdl said:
See, that's why I like this site. Up until this thread, you could have taken money from me by betting that you had an ash tree with a simple leaf.

I'd have fallen for that bet. Hook, line, and sinker.
Click to expand...

And not that long ago I would have been right there with you. I have been taking Dendrology this semester with Prof Bob Underwood (on-line class) and it is truly amazing how many times I have said "I didn't know that!". Really fun.

Sylvia
 
treeseer said:
Carpinus aka ironwood?
Click to expand...

I don't think so because of the bark. I looked at the Carpinus sp also due to the strong parallel venation and acuminate tip. Gave leeway to variation in the leaf margin (this is much more dentate than the carpinus generally are, which is strongly, doubly serrate).

But the bark is decidedly different from an ironwood ("smooth, dark bluish gray, sinewy, fluted with smooth, rounded, longitudinal ridges" Dirr, 1998).

However, are there regional/species differences??? That's always another factor to consider....a fly in the anointment.

The mystery continues...

Sylvia
 
ok, I will get more pics today, once the kids go down for a nap and I get outside.
 

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