Tree Removal and Firewood Companies - Partnership?

[Firewood MB]

Hi All

First post but long term watcher and learner from all the knowledge here so thanks in advance for any help.
We've been in the firewood business part time for 12 years and full time for the last 18 months (equipment list below). 95% of our logs are purchased in 16' lengths from logging companies as I don't have the bankroll or the intention to start logging. 2/3 our clients use firewood for supplemental heating and the remaining are businesses and recreational burners. Our purchased logs make for pretty firewood but I think that by using logs from urban tree removals would equal lower raw material costs and open up the market to people looking for cheap firewood while still keeping some profit.

Question #1 - How does a firewood company work efficiently (that's the key word) with tree removal companies to remove felled logs from jobsites? In the past we've brought dump trailers / dump trucks to tree removal sites and then loaded up. More often than not there are parking problems in driveways, back lanes etc. and we have to wait as the tree isn't completely down and/or the logs have to be moved several times to get out of the way of branches and chipping, especially in small yards. I'm thinking of buying a small hooklift truck (F-550) and spotting 10' long bins at sites that would hold at least 2 cords of loose wood (360 cubic feet ). Bins would fit anywhere a vehicle parks (driveway, parking pad, on the street etc.) These bins could be loaded at ground level so dollies and trailer could be used. These same bins would be used for firewood delivery.

Question #2 - Is there enough value in having the bins onsite for tree removal companies to pay for this service? I'm going to be converting these logs into sellable firewood but before that there is the time, labour, fuel etc. of dropping off and picking up bins so I'm hoping to charge something to cover costs. Small removal (less than a half cord) we could just stop and pickup at no charge but if we''re spotting a bin for a day or more we would charge X amount. The options vs. a bin are chipping everything with a big chipper (higher overhead cost), hauling the wood to the dump (the farm boy in me hates to see that waste along with the fuel and time it takes), having a regular pickup company (like we currently do but takes up time) or advertising for pickup on Kijiji / Craigslist and hoping they show up, take all the wood they're supposed, not run over the owner's pet poodle and so on. With the bins only the small stuff (under 4" diameter) needs to be chipped as the rest could be loaded up. Everything is cleaned up when the job is done.

I realize there are a lot of variables from place to place in terms of firewood demand, # of tree removal and firewood companies, how professionally both are run and so on. Any suggestions, thoughts or concerns are welcome and if any further explanation is needed please let me know.

Thanks for your time.

 

[svk]

First of all, welcome to the site.

Not a logger or tree service operator, but just thinking out loud here. If you have to purchase the equipment to haul unprocessed wood from a tree service job site and pay someone to operate the equipment you are cutting way into your profit. The other issue of tree service wood is that it is often of low quality/undesirable species and may be obnoxiously large and/or loaded with metal because of what the homeowners pounded/bolted into it.

I have always viewed tree service wood as a great way for a wood burner to supplement their supply but in that case you are doing it on your own time as a hobby and using a pickup truck versus running a business where you have to tie up dedicated equipment and pay an employee for their time.

 

[Firewood MB]

Thanks SVK, I should have included the following background info:

- The city we mainly deliver firewood to is the same we would pick up tree service wood from. Firewood would be hauled / delivered to the city in the same hooklift truck and bins that we would then pickup trees with. We're driving back empty to our yard from the city anyhow after firewood deliveries so this way we would be hauling something.

- Our goal is to automate firewood processing as much as possible (pull hydraulic levers vs. burning carbs) so we have a processor operator already (me). I would hire someone part time to roll the wood from the truck to infeed trough of the processor (they are at the same height). If larger diameter than what our processor takes (20") we have clients with outdoor wood furnaces that like large rounds that they split, season and burn. We'll have to calculate if the lower overall cost of the logs beats the additional time / labour involved.

- Hardware in urban trees is unfortunately a given, in a perfect world it will be confined to the bottom 6' of the tree. 6' divided by 16" logs equals 4 cuts...I'll cross my fingers that our carbides don't find the metal. The older trees that are are likely to have metal will have larger diameters which may go to the outdoor wood furnace section. A good procedure we may follow is that for the bottom 6' of smaller diameter trees we cut with the chainsaw. As most of these bottom pieces will be moved manually from the tree to the bin they'll already be cut to carryable (is that a word?) lengths so only require splitting...no cutting.

I bet MN has even less snow than MB has right now...have a great Spring!

 

[svk]

Well that makes more sense then!

Snow is gone in the south half of the state and rapidly decreasing in the north.

 

[CentaurG2]

The main job of a tree company is to get the tree on the ground as quickly and safely as possible and to move on to the next job. Firewood or wood chips sales are, at best, a secondary concern. Most of the large outfits now run cranes and grapple chippers that can take up to a 20” piece of wood. Chips are either dumped or sold depending on location. Large leaders or trunks are usually set aside and picked up later by a log truck. I really cant see a large tree outfit being too interested in filling roll off cans with usable firewood chunks.

If you want to get in on salvage wood, I would just ask the owners of local tree company’s for usable logs to be dropped off at your place of business. If you have an easy drop and kick in some cash (cash always talks when it comes to getting logs), you could probably get in on some cheaper wood. Alternatively you could purchase a small log truck and offer to pick up wood for little or no cost. The truck can also be used to feed the live deck of your processer and for hauling large amount of split firewood if you get one with a dump body.

As mentioned, most yard trees are either diseased or huge and they are always loaded with metal. Even if they are free, it takes a lot of effort to get anything useful out of them. In most cases, they belong in a tub grinder but they now have ways of diversifying them into processer chow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Vc1v_OpZRk

If you have access to good quality processer log length wood, I would just go that route.

Trucks with roll off cans do make for good firewood trucks. They work great especially if you are selling green processed wood. The ones I have seen are a bit too tall and long when it comes to deliveries in tight areas. Best firewood delivery trucks for citys are the little one tons with a dump body. Good luck with your business.

 

[pro94lt]

How big is your wood lot? I own a tree service and I sell firewood but don't have the desire or time to process all the wood we get, I dump what I don't want at people's houses, has to be hard ground, and easily accessible or I won't bother with it... You just need to call tree services and tell them you'll take what they don't want. But you'll probably have to take whatever they need to unload... Oh and we cut stuff in odd ball lengths some could be 10" 3' 20'...

 

[Firewood MB]

Thanks CentaurG2 and pro94lt

Our hoped for future hooklift truck will be maneuverable to get anywhere a car can...well maybe not a SmartCar.

As far as I know no tree companies locally that have grapples loading their chippers.
My focus would be the smaller companies first (start off slow and do it right) that cut down big trees but don't have the equipment for chipping big stuff.

We're 10 minutes outside of the main city we deliver to with 8 acres, some of which would be suitable for unloading logs dropped off by tree services.
We're 5 minutes past the local landfill but we don't charge tipping fees. We've done a bit of having companies drop off but of course they drop off the chips too (can't blame them)...maybe market the chips after we pull the logs out?
I've looked at Metavic log trailers for log pickup and processor loading but it's down the "Want" list. A self propelled hooklift log picker would be sexy, pull a trailer behind the truck and load with the picker. If not on the truck unload it by the processor for loading logs.

Will chat with a few tree services about drop off and see where it goes....and keep the site updated.

 

[Agent Orange]

Good luck with your venture, it sounds like you have a plan to start with. Make it attractive for the tree companies and it just may work out in both your favors.