Trimming badly pruned large limbs - two conflicting opinions

[Glenn J]

I have conflicting advice from two certified arborists concerning the trimming and care of a large London Plane here in NJ. The tree was poorly trimmed with 8 to 10 inch diameter limbs cut 8" to 12" from the trunk of the tree. There is decay coming into the tree as a result. The limbs have generally started to heal over.

Arborist 1 says cut the limbs off just outside of the growth ring nearest the trunk. Cut out the existing decay leaving a hole. Allow the tree to heal.

Arborist 2 says do nothing. The tree is healing over the damage and while not properly cut removing the healed section just creates a new and larger wound. Ignore the existing rot.

I want to save/protect the tree and do the best thing to have it be healthy for another 100 years. Following 1's advice is going to leave me some holes 15 to 30 feet up where I cannot reasonable do anything to care for the wound. Following 2's advice means I have decay in the tree under the bark.

Help

 

[ropensaddle]

I have conflicting advice from two certified arborists concerning the trimming and care of a large London Plane here in NJ. The tree was poorly trimmed with 8 to 10 inch diameter limbs cut 8" to 12" from the trunk of the tree. There is decay coming into the tree as a result. The limbs have generally started to heal over.

Arborist 1 says cut the limbs off just outside of the growth ring nearest the trunk. Cut out the existing decay leaving a hole. Allow the tree to heal.

Arborist 2 says do nothing. The tree is healing over the damage and while not properly cut removing the healed section just creates a new and larger wound. Ignore the existing rot.

I want to save/protect the tree and do the best thing to have it be healthy for another 100 years. Following 1's advice is going to leave me some holes 15 to 30 feet up where I cannot reasonable do anything to care for the wound. Following 2's advice means I have decay in the tree under the bark.

Help

Hi Glenn pictures are almost mandatory is the decay walled off ?

 

[tree lopper]

How long ago was the tree subjected to poor pruning?

I remove the stubs when I come across this (which I do far too often). There are plant hormones that assist the tree to compartmentalize the wound located near the branch collar. Left, the branches will continue to rot and you will have both deadwood and holes. Cleaned up, some cavitation has obviously already occurred but it will reduce the amount you have in the long run and you won't have pieces of wood falling on people.

It's also possible that the tree should be removed if the trunk is too damaged and in a dangerous position. How thick is the trunk where the branches were removed? Again, photos would be really helpful.

 

[Marine5068]

I am no way a trained professional pruner(arborist), but you need to post us some pics to help explain the situation.
I have been pruning and training trees to grow properly for many, many years.
Don't laugh, but being an Engineer, I use the principles of physics and ecology to assess a tree and see what needs to be cut and what needs to stay and why.
Many factors come into play when dealing with individual trees. Some of these can be Tree Vitality, Structural Integrity, Location of tree, Use of tree, Age of tree and of course costs of arborculture.
Here's a link to some more...

http://www.yourleaf.org/tree-pruning-overview

 

[tree lopper]

Don't laugh, but being an Engineer, I use the principles of physics and ecology
http://www.yourleaf.org/tree-pruning-overview

I'm sure you use the principles of tree biology first and foremost, though. I clicked through to your site and you do mention them there.

 

[old_soul]

I have conflicting advice from two certified arborists concerning the trimming and care of a large London Plane here in NJ. The tree was poorly trimmed with 8 to 10 inch diameter limbs cut 8" to 12" from the trunk of the tree. There is decay coming into the tree as a result. The limbs have generally started to heal over.

Arborist 1 says cut the limbs off just outside of the growth ring nearest the trunk. Cut out the existing decay leaving a hole. Allow the tree to heal.

Arborist 2 says do nothing. The tree is healing over the damage and while not properly cut removing the healed section just creates a new and larger wound. Ignore the existing rot.

I want to save/protect the tree and do the best thing to have it be healthy for another 100 years. Following 1's advice is going to leave me some holes 15 to 30 feet up where I cannot reasonable do anything to care for the wound. Following 2's advice means I have decay in the tree under the bark.

Help

How much stub is left? Or has it all rotted off now leaving a hole? I have seen healthy sycamores completely callous cover dead stubs and basically enclose all of the rotted wood inside. Of course there is still rot under there and a white-barked stub sticking out, but the tree has healed.

Probably one of the better tree species as far as compartmentalization/healing goes......

I like to remove stubs for a clean , scaffolded looking tree but 12 inch diameter is an awful big cut.

 

[Marine5068]

I'm sure you use the principles of tree biology first and foremost, though. I clicked through to your site and you do mention them there.

Biology is, of course, always a main factor with any living organism.

 

[treeseer]

Arborist 1 fails to realize the 'collar' has now moved outward. Arborist 2 is right, per the A300 standard, and common sense.

To help the branches, help the roots, improve the soil.

 

[pdqdl]

Arborist 1 fails to realize the 'collar' has now moved outward. Arborist 2 is right, per the A300 standard, and common sense.

To help the branches, help the roots, improve the soil.

I agree, but I will add some abuse: Arborist 1 (if properly quoted) doesn't sound like he knows what he is talking about. Arb #1 sounds like he wants to sell some unnecessary trimming.

 

[tree lopper]

...There is decay coming into the tree as a result....
The limbs have generally started to heal over....

I agree, but I will add some abuse....

I'd suggest going easy on the abuse. It's a way too strong word at this stage. Photos have not been posted and the OP has given conflicting information: that decay is forming and that the branches are generally starting to heal over. It's quite possible some branches will not heal over, rot back to the trunk and cause cavities that would weaken the tree. Deadwood would also form so targets need to be assessed to see if, for example, it's in a high pedestrian traffic area.

Edited to show truncation of quotes.

 

[pdqdl]

I'll stick with the abuse. If decay is present, there is no gain to the health of the tree by damaging whatever callus formation might be present by doing some cosmetic pruning.

Granted, stubs don't look good, and they do not promote callus formation. Once abandoned on the side of a tree, they don't hurt much either.

 

[Glenn J]

Here are pictures of the tree, which is fairly large as you can see next to the 22' roof line. Next is the place on the tree where the branch was cut off. The cut off end showing both the inside and outside and last the remaining branches, higher in the tree, that the first arborist wants to take down and the second says leave alone. The first arborist wants to carve the decay out of the tree leaving a void.

Thanks for the help and sorry it took so long to respond.

 

[angelo c]

(looks an awful lot like a Sycamore to me. )

just loggin in

 

[Glenn J]

Yeah -- all of the tree guys over the last 30 years have delighted in telling me its a London Plain, but it looks like a Sycamore to me too

 

[angelo c]

Yeah -- all of the tree guys over the last 30 years have delighted in telling me its a London Plain, but it looks like a Sycamore to me too

I had to google "London Plane" to see what it was....apparently the "ask.com" site just sent me a virus....so good luck with the tree (which is very closely related to a Sycamore) BTW.

 

[Oldman47]

Pictures 4251 and 4252 show a partially healed limb that was scarring over and now has forced your sycamore to go back and start the healing process all over again. Whoever did that to your tree should not be allowed to return.

 

[pdqdl]

Yep. You got taken for a ride if that is all they cut off. Those were not even particularly bad cuts before the calluses got shaved off. You should have left them alone.

Don't worry about "carving out the decay". All that will happen is that you will hasten the demise of the tree. Don't call whoever suggested doing that again, either. They are either crooks or seriously ill informed if they are purporting to be an arborist.

By the way, a London Plane tree is a sycamore. It is just the fancy name stuck on a particular variety of sycamore by the nurseries so that they can sell it for more money. "Sycamore" doesn't have nearly as cool an appeal as "London Plane Tree".

 

[treeseer]

Someone got paid for making a flush cut out for no reason.

When you pick it up, it's heavy, right? That's a load of scar tissue. The tree must now make a lot more, if it can.

Is #1 really ISA Certified? Check here, please. http://www.isa-arbor.com/findanarborist/findanarborist.aspx