Walked From the Job

[Matt Follett]

For sure I agree with the "capellini and meat balls" aproach with limited ground crew, over rigging, to much work for one person to handle big stuff on the ground.

And I do for sure agree with the clean running line, far easier to move around. I just ponder these things when stems get oh-so-shaky and I wonder if we really have any idea of what we have just done to the balance of the thing, and where it might go?


Edit, Oh TM, I didn't mean you were threadjacking, just me and my mutterings, took it else where to be mulled over

 

[Chucky]

Hey TM buddy, Judas! That's one helluva slice and dice job. Dammn! That'll be around in the AS front page for a long spell. And thanks for the macabre pics -- if I've ever wanted to go vegan, the time is now!

Well, it just goes to show you even the best can get hurt. Hey buddy, it can happen to anyone. I'm really glad you're in good spirits, though I can't imagine ol' Tree Machine being in anything but. You da man, TM. You've freely given me lots of good advice when I've asked for it, and most of all you've given me inspiration and confidence when I really needed it. Remember this pic you made? It was YOU that made me go back to it and DO it.

Speedy recovery, TM.

 

[stehansen]

I once bid $1900.00 on a rather large cottonwood tree in a back yard and there was fences on 3 sides of it and all I had to help me was my 80 year old Father. I got up in the tree and started roping down wood and most of the limbs were hanging a long ways from the LZ so when they came down we would have to raise them up as they would hang up on some surrounding trees. I would cut 3 or 4 limbs and have to go down the tree and help my Dad on the ground. After the first day I knew for sure that I was in over my head. I called a couple of other guys in the biz and they were all booked up for months. My Father talked me into just calming down and getting some more help on the ground and taking it one limb at a time. It took way too long, but we got it done, I got paid and everyone was happy, and I was one tree wiser.

 

[Ekka]

Gee, good resurection of an old thread Chucky, well done.

I think having read it from start to finish a good way to some it up for the tree guys is with this question ...

How does an ant eat an elephant? ... one bite at a time.

 

[Chucky]

Thanks, Ekka. Actually the thread didn't quite finish there, but here:

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=15564&page=63&pp=15

I'd decided after all the input and support from AS members, and that even though I have a whole lot more ground experience than climbing experience, I could still do the tree -- as long as I did it safely and with patience.

Of course Tree Machine, a consummate solo arborist, made it look so easy, I just HAD to give it another shot to restore my confidence and redeem myself. And after all the advice, it did turn out almost easy.

P.S. Stehansen, I really admire your patience and perserverance in that huge Cottonwood takedown with your 80-year old father. Now that's an ant eating an elephant!

 

[stehansen]

I don't know if I communicated very well but I was trying to tell you that I was in a similar situation and my reaction to the situation was pretty much the same as your reaction to your situation. It took my Dad (he always comes through) to get me calmed down and to see things in perspective. I'm glad to hear that you completed the job. Your reputation will be the better for it.

PS I only had just my dad for help that first day, after that I got some more help.

 

[Jim@turf]

Jim @ TREE SERVICES magazine here. I'd like to use this thread in the next issue of the magazine. If anyone has objections, please let me know and I'll leave your posts out.

thanks.

I like this one because it connects to so many issues at the same time ... including the "human" part of the work.

 

[Tree Machine]

I like it, Jim. Chucky's the hero. Everyone contributed really good stuff, issues we've all worked through. It just got a good spotlight.

I am so happy, Chucky, that you took it on. When you 'stretch' the way you did, you grow. You learn. You move past your self-imposed limits. I can feel the success in your words.

I'm just glad you came here for advice. You took that risk, and we hit you from all sides. You sorted it out, digested it, and went back for a second look. I imagine you laid awake at night thinkin about that sucker and it just ate at you.

I'm so glad the digital takedown helped. I do that sort of plan in my head before every tree job, looking, studying going through all the motions in my head, assessing the tools needed, time required, and manpower. Once that 15 seconds is over, it's time to write the estimate.

You kicked it's butt. Go to the Tree Care EXPO in Columbus, OH. We will partake in a commercially available carbonated malt beverege together!

(P.S. Why did nobody ask about the testosterone tire? http://www.arboristsite.com/attachment_17342.php )

 

[Chucky]

I have no objections, and I can’t express enough my appreciation for the advice and support from the helpful folks on this site. But, you may want to consider that many tree care professionals reading your magazine with reputable businesses will probably look askance at this tree job. This was a “buzzie” job that was underbid and performed by a person (me) with no insurance. Tree care professionals who pay a high premium for liability insurance and workers compensation, and who have a payroll to make week after week, don’t like to be underbid by “hacks.”

I don’t consider myself a hack, as I have formal degrees in both Urban Tree Management and Urban Forestry, I’m a Massachusetts State Certified Arborist, and I have a fair amount of climbing experience with a reputable tree service company. And I can’t think of any work I performed on that particular job that didn’t comply with ANSI Z133 standards.

Nonetheless, the underbidding and lack of insurance don’t make the job look professional, and many tree care professionals reading your magazine will legitimately have a gripe with that.

I remember in the early 1990s, a tree care magazine (either Arbor Age or TCI Magazine) featured a UMASS graduate in its cover story titled, “My First Takedown.” Pictured on the magazine’s cover, in full color and in glaring detail, was the student standing by the tree wearing completely inappropriate PPE. Then as the reader got into the text on the takedown, more improprieties emerged, including clear Z133 transgressions.

The magazine was soon flooded with letters by outraged readers, and it turned into a major embarrassment, not only for the student and the magazine, but also for the UMASS Urban Forestry department.

So, I just want to give you fair warning of what kind of feedback you might get from your readers on this story.

(-TM-, if I make it to Columbus you better know the carbonated malt beverages are on me! Same goes for Lumberjack, et al!)

 

[woodchux]

I once bid $1900.00 on a rather large cottonwood tree in a back yard and there was fences on 3 sides of it and all I had to help me was my 80 year old Father. I got up in the tree and started roping down wood and most of the limbs were hanging a long ways from the LZ so when they came down we would have to raise them up as they would hang up on some surrounding trees. I would cut 3 or 4 limbs and have to go down the tree and help my Dad on the ground. After the first day I knew for sure that I was in over my head. I called a couple of other guys in the biz and they were all booked up for months. My Father talked me into just calming down and getting some more help on the ground and taking it one limb at a time. It took way too long, but we got it done, I got paid and everyone was happy, and I was one tree wiser.

Get yourself a rope-a-long...About $60. Great for lifting up those hangers.

 

[treeguy347]

TM, do you ever like to leave stubs as footholds?

 

[Redbull]

Or more importantly...what's up with the testosterone tire?

 

[pantheraba]

Chucky and TreeMachine...I just went back and read the whole thread...it is great! A real process working through a job that seemed too much and then finding a way to do it.

TM, your step by step plan for Chucky was great, a good example of how to just think it out and break it down into steps.

Chucky, it's cool that you went back and got it done.

 

[Tree Machine]

Thanks Pantheraba. That's what we're here for, to help each other. I've received a lot more than I've given, so I still have some catchin up to do.

Do I ever leave stubs as footholds? If it's a big enough diameter to call firewood I do. The 'stub' would go out until the diameter is about the size of my wrist. Far side of that is chippable. Near side is firewood (I have a 6" capacity chipper). I almost always do a takedown in two distinct phases, crowning out, clean up, chip. Arrange firewood people, climb, dice-a-roni. I very much prefer to make firewood up in the tree.

Testosterone tire? You mean you want me to spill the beans on one of my most valuable low-tech innovations??? I don't know if there's room in this thread. It would be a blatant de-rail and a personal thread hijacking. Mebbe another time. This is Chucky's thread.

 

[Steebow]

Wow What a great ride this has been!

TM Im gonna take a pic of every job and send it to you first (ha ha ) please include a the bid when u return it to me. Cant wait to learn about that tire.

Chucky you are not only brave for goin back to that tree but the starting this thread was the bravest of all I'll never forget waht I learned by reading it, thanks.

 

[Tree Machine]

And also, I salute Chucky. You've inspired all of us

Cant wait to learn about that tire.

OK, the 'tire'. OK, this first pic is of a tire system I used for years. They are for absorbing the shock of bombed chunks. From up in the air, this system is pretty easy to hit. I also used it for felling, to give a 'bullsey' to the felled a log. Prevents lawn damage.

In the lower pic, I have a piece of carpet over the tires, but that only lasted a couple jobs. I replaced it with a mat of thick rubber, like that used in heavy-duty conveyor flooring. Anyway, the picture gives you the idea. The biner can be unhooked and the three dragged in a line.

 

[Tree Machine]

The first pic is of a mishap where my right rear tire caught a curb, and by the time all the air was out I was in the middle of an intersection. I had to drive on through. I hung a right into a parking lot and when I did, the tire popped completely off the rim. I had to drive another 10 meters to get to a reasonable parking spot, or at least get the chipper pulled out of traffic. The result is what you see.

 

[Tree Machine]

Being one to always make lemon out of lemonade I found the opportunity to, since I had to replace one rim, I'd replace both and since one tire was hosed, a new rear set of tires was in order.

So, after that $600 glass of lemonade I did end up with new rear rims, new rear tires and a spare tire on a rim. This is all good. I also had the toasted tire.

The set of three from the previous pics had been pounded to oblivion over the course of a few years and needed replacing. My aim at bombing chunks had gotten really good in that time, so I decided to go from the set of three tires, down to one. I also had a couple smaller 12" utility trailer tires and I managed to stuff two 12 inchers inside of the one truck tire. Now I can make giant chunks actually 'bounce'. It's quite entertaining.

Ladies and gentlemen, the 'Testosterone Tire'.

 

[Steebow]

Iam not disappointed. That was worth the wait.
What kinda height do you get on those bounces?

 

[Chucky]

You're too much, TM, with that big ol' tire. And I'm much obliged for the kind accolades, my friend, and that goes to you other kind folks, too. I'm no "hero" though -- I know who the real heros are -- but I know you're just using the term in your usual infectiously enthusiastic way of speaking and doing things. Been spying on your pics and it's good to see you're mending properly. You know I know you know how precipitously close you came to becoming a pile of mulch. You're the Tree Machine, not The Mulch Pile. And you better know we want to keep you that way.